Jump to content

Arma Vs Airfix, 1/72 Hurricane Mk1


Recommended Posts

@Troy Smith thank you for those clarifications. I want to build UF-A, I think from what you have said that this would be:

- Metal wing (the landing lights look a long way out from the gun ports?). Although I can't see the panel line I was expecting between the guns and light so am very unsure on this.

- The square panel behind the escape hatch filled.

- Straight bottomed windscreen.

-five spoke wheels.

-short DH spinner.

 

Have I got that roughly right?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

@Troy Smith thank you for those clarifications. I want to build UF-A, I think from what you have said that this would be:

- Metal wing (the landing lights look a long way out from the gun ports?). Although I can't see the panel line I was expecting between the guns and light so am very unsure on this.

there isn't one.  There is a panel line around the gunport panel

011077.jpg

 

 

Note, this is the unrestored Finnish Hurricane, 'as is' since 1943.

see

https://www.pienoismallit.net/galleria/referenssi_1295/

https://www.pienoismallit.net/galleria/referenssi_1536/

 

5 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

- The square panel behind the escape hatch filled.

- Straight bottomed windscreen.

 

5 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

-five spoke wheels.

013488.jpg

5 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

-short DH spinner.

hurricane_mk1_l1592_07_of_26.jpg

 

note the Finnish plane has a DH Spitfire prop, L1592 , above, in the Science Museum has the DH Hurricane prop, note the DH Spitfire prop on the Spitfire behind.

Also neatly shows the curved windscreen with external armour.

from

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/index.php?Page=1

5 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

 

Have I got that roughly right?

 

 

Yes, using the Arma Hobby kit. 

You may want to skip filling the square panel,  as filling it so it does not look a mess maybe rather tricky. 

the Arma kit only has the DH Hurricane prop.  The Arma Rotol required  a fair amount of careful trimming to get the blades and backplate to 'seat' properly, not tried checked the Dh parts.

 

HTH

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

They have primer on:

50626569401_2b2370d773_k.jpg20201120_230729_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

I had a bit of a 'mare on the Arma one when my airbrush spat a massive gob of primer over one wing (I think I had over filled the cup and it dripped down to the nozzle) fortunately after leaving it to cure I was able to sand it down and re scribe with acceptable results!

 

Even more remarkably I found that I had kept a spare set of 5 spoke wheels from an Eduard Spit just like @Troy Smith suggested!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't sleep so carried on with the models.

having sanded all of the seams I started trying to burnish down the vinyl masks because they were lifting in one or two places.#

In doing so I pushed too hard and cracked the canopy in half!

50627676527_e35c85c5f1_k.jpg20201121_053820_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

I am really annoyed but I fortunately the Arma kit comes with two canopies so I will just have to pick which one gets the open cockpit! I think it will be the Airfix with the open canopy as this one fits without needing any reshaping of the fuselage.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

I couldn't sleep so carried on with the models.

having sanded all of the seams I started trying to burnish down the vinyl masks because they were lifting in one or two places.#

In doing so I pushed too hard and cracked the canopy in half!

 

 

 

Oh :poop: !

 

 

 

Chris

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

Even more remarkably I found that I had kept a spare set of 5 spoke wheels from an Eduard Spit

You need the hubs, not the wheels, Spitfire tyres are smaller, but the hubs are the same size.  

The Airfix wheels are a little too big, (they won't fit into the wheel well!)  Arma are correct.

Just drill out the existing hub, a 4 mm drill will do the job,  if you have imperial drill bits, 1/6th of an inch.  (1 inch = 25.4 mm.  So 4mm is just smaller than 1/6th inch)

HTH

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, just to be clear it is spare wheels (not including tyres) that I have. I need to drill out the Arma wheels so that I can pop them in. But I am rather nervous about mucking up that step!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OutcastJoel said:

I need to drill out the Arma wheels so that I can pop them in. But I am rather nervous about mucking up that step!

 

Practice on scrap.

I use a sewing needle in pin chuck for all sorts of model uses, (superglue application, scribing) and as a drill centre point. 

mark centre, and if unsure on drilling, don't try to do it in one go, mark centre, use small drill to make larger hole,  then use correct size, 

Try on scrap if unsure, even a bit of sprue will do. 

You do need both a set of drills, and a pin chuck(s). 

 And a 4 mm or 1/6th inch drill.    You can use the larger bit between your fingers.    

 

Plastic is easy to drill, and is a consistent material.     

 

I posted this in another thread in case you don't have these.

 

this is the kind of micro drill I have

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/US-PRO-20pc-HSS-Metal-Micro-Mini-Small-Drill-Bit-Set-Metric-0-3mm-1-6mm-2409/301382753809

 

if you do a lot of drilling,  a better set wold be worthwhile, but for occasional use, these are fine.

be very careful opening up the box, as it would be very difficult and time consuming to put them back in the correct order if you spill them out....

 

you want these as well

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4PC-Pin-Vice-Drill-Chuck-Set-Jewellery-Making-Watch-Repair-Model-Craft-1-2-3-4mm/233570182080

 

 

 

I have a 'better' one which does not grip.  the 4 pack means you can don't have to keep swapping bits about,  and a tool I find invaluable is a medium sewing needle in a pin vice,  I use it for tiny super glue drops, engraving lines, and as a centre point for drilling,  

This is what I used to drill out some 72nd Arma Hurricane exhausts, use the needle to mark the centre of the rear pipe, and use two points on the oval shaped, and a smaller drill, which when the drilled sideways connected the two holes...result

 

50408407477_ab6af755a8_z.jpg

 

As you have the kit, you can see this is pretty small. 

 

Funnily enough, after posting,  I was looking up a set of imperial drills

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13PC-HSS-DRILL-FLAT-BIT-SET-QUALITY-DRILLS-IMPERIAL-SIZES/261121412341

 

I have loads of drill bits, from DIY use,  and a bulk bag from a jumble sale....   but try finding the right size.....  I may buy some myself.

Why imperial, just that model scale tend to be based on imperial, and WW2 British and American aircraft use feet and inches.

I always laugh when I see tings like what is a D- D day  or Sky band stripe in 72nd in mm

real thing 18 inch, or 1'6",  72nd is 6ft to the inch, or 1ft= 1/6th inch,  1'6" = 3/12th or 1/4 inch. 

in mm.... well, 25.4/4 = 6.36 mm..... (from memory, and I can't be faffed to find a calculator)

 

Sure, it is easier to use mm for convenience giving a measurement,  but for scaling down of imperial dimensions it's a mess. 

 

I digress.... 

 

HTH

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Troy Smith, thank you that is a really reassuring guide. 

I don't actually have a pin chuck so I will pick up something like the one you are suggesting!

 

I managed to get a little more painting done today despite spending most of the day doing various jobs about the house.

 

I have gone with the white, black and sliver with flying sword scheme that was discussed earlier on the tin wing. and a straight white/black on the rag wing.

50635003422_cff4a5424f_k.jpg20201122_210424_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

Close up of the flying sword, it is a little messy when magnified but this is a seriously fiddly shape to try to cut the mask for! (Even using a silhouette machine.)

50634171658_a352a3405b_k.jpg20201122_205346_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

Close up of the flying sword, it is a little messy when magnified but this is a seriously fiddly shape to try to cut the mask for! (Even using a silhouette machine.)

Impressive.

Might have been better as a home printed decal?  

Alos, the landing lights are a pretty tight fit,  they may have better installed earlier.   

2 hours ago, Broadway said:

I'm going to watch this as I have an Arma and Airfix to start soon.

Note, you can fit the Arma gear legs later on.

Both are easier of if you spend time making sure the main wheel well parts align with the upper wing.

I found both benefit from using the upper wing dry fitted with tape to do this.  one you have a good gap free fit, you can use the capillary action of liquid cement to hold, I added them to the upper wing. 

 

The Arma has been discussed recently, some builders having fit problems, especially with the wheel well.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235083197-hurricane-kit-woes/

this is as far as I got with the Arma,  I found the fit very tight in places, and required care and some scraping down in places,  in particular the upperwing to fuselage, 

 but with taking the the time to do this,  it fit really well.  

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235080866-hurricane-mki-arma-hobby-72nd-scheme-tbc/

 

The wheel well did take some fiddling, getting the cross prices lined up was tricky.   Done with wings taped together.

this is the Airfix kit done OOB

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/

 

HTH

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread indeed. I'm building both fabric and metal wing Mk.I's for the Royal Yugoslav Air Force at the moment and have built numerous Arma kits (Mk.I and Mk.IIc) plus the Airfix Mk.I over the last 2 years. I like both kits very much, have found both need a bit of tweaking to get the u/c and wings aligned up; though that isn't an issue with Arma's Mk.II kits as they sorted out the issues they had with their Mk.I kits.

 

The RYAF Hurricanes provide the modeller with a good batch of camo varieties as well as having some early Mk.I with 2 blade props upgraded with 3 blades while keeping the early unarmoured wing screen. After the end of the April 1941 invasion some remaining Hurricanes then sported Nazis, Romanian and Italian insignias and colors over the RYAF ones, so a real hodgepodge exists.

 

One note about the Airifx ragwing, you need to sand down the fabric effect behind the machine gun panel as this was a metal panel as well, so requires one panel line scribed on too.

 

I'm not a fan of Airfix, finding most of their new tooling to be sloppy, soft plastic, erroneous errors, silly mistakes sort of thing, but the Hurricane is an exception.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Louise said:

One note about the Airifx ragwing, you need to sand down the fabric effect behind the machine gun panel as this was a metal panel as well, so requires one panel line scribed on too.

 

 

Also the rearmost panel next to the wing root, where people walk.  I find this better done with Mr Body Putty or Mr. Surfacer 500.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Also the rearmost panel next to the wing root, where people walk. 

no, this was fabric on the early planes as well.  Not sure if stayed fabric on the early L**** and N**** metal  wing planes though.

 

17 Sq fabric wing with damage, note the root panel with ragged fabric.

36332051336_8f85601704.jpgHurricane17sqdamaged_zps9106b20e by losethekibble, on Flickr

It's also noted on the A.L. Bentley drawings. 

1 hour ago, Louise said:

silly mistakes sort of thing, but the Hurricane is an exception.

It has some silly mistakes.  

oversize wheels, 4 spoke hubs, 90 degree fuselage wing transition, canopy is too high, and as result windscreen is wrong shape.  

And, if the Bentley drawings are to be trusted, slightly too long.

 

Visually, the problems are the canopy and wheels.

Later canopy types, and a lot of the fabric wing have the straight bottom screen style, can be an easy replacement, but the only early type vac canopy by Rob Taurus just copy the kit.

 

I think the overall surface is better than the Sword/AZ fabric  wing kit though.

 

1 hour ago, Louise said:

The RYAF Hurricanes provide the modeller with a good batch of camo varieties as well as having some early Mk.I with 2 blade props upgraded with 3 blades while keeping the early unarmoured wing screen. After the end of the April 1941 invasion some remaining Hurricanes then sported Nazis, Romanian and Italian insignias and colors over the RYAF ones, so a real hodgepodge exists.

Indeed.  I recently picked up Hawker, the Yugoslav Story, which is fascinating.

good thread here with some useful information on colour and matches

HTH

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I might have to give home made decals a go at some point, I think that it would have worked better.

 

Thank you all, the info on the wings is really useful.

However, I had already painted it and couldn't really be bothered to strip it back again... 😕 I will use the tip at some point in the future because I really like the Hurricane and it is only 11 months until certain German Supermarkets have them in stock for £5 again!

 

I got the rather lovely Colourcoats dark green paint on and think it looks pretty nice:

50650099232_1c11ca0bdc_k.jpg20201126_204200_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brown on! I accidentally painted the pattern the wrong way around on the rag wing fortunately when I googled 615 sqn Hurricanes I saw that KW*E had the pattern the way round I painted it. I couldn't tell from the photo if it was a fabric wing, but I found a photo of KW*F after being bomb damaged and that certainly was fabric winged so I am reasonably confident.

Even more luckily I had an "E" in the right font, size and colour from a scheme I have no intention of building.

50662197767_5544ed7e51_k.jpg20201129_201839_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

I am not sure if roundels are correct but I decided that as 615 were based on the continent in 1939 and early 1940, it was reasonably likely that the underside would look something like this in early summer at Kenley.

50661370103_70b8e4f900_k.jpg20201129_201907_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

 

I am being a little more careful with the 601 sqn aircraft so have only managed to get the roundels on.

50662197957_c9d4a81a52_k.jpg20201129_202022_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not entirely sure what I did wrong but the "E" decals just didn't sit down and silvered a fair bit.

I tried increasingly strong chemicals until I eventually used enamel thinners and they just lifted and curled up...

 

On the bright side I did finally persuade myself to fix the lack of yellow surround on the port wing roundel.

50688285102_a91a59dc62_k.jpg20201206_204239_Film2 by OutcastJoel, on Flickr

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, OutcastJoel said:

yellow surround on the port wing roundel.

does not go over the aileron.  It was RAF practice to not  paint onto control surfaces, as this could cause them to become unbalanced.  When repaints were done very carefully to keep balance. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...