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Type 38 Schnellboot build


Steve D

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No etchings yet so I'm working my way round other things that need deciding, in particular the colour scheme re exactly what is white and what is grey.  A lot of models you so have the long vent covers all white (though admittedly, most of the models I can find are S-100 types which may have been different).  This picture clearly shows that for some type 38's at least the tops where grey.  One further point is that it looks like the torpedo scallop (?) don't know the right term) seems to be grey, continuing the line from the tube roof.  I've not seen that painted on any model.....

 

 Also, note the white inner line on the starboard navigation light, interesting detail and the rust and other weathering on the nearby vessel

 

colours

 

It would seem that if the grey represents an attempt to reduce the visibility of the vessel from the air, then leaving distinctive features white sort of defeats the objective, similarly with the hatch covers.  Many models have white engine room hatches, doesn't make sense to me, vertical white, horizontal grey is more logical...

 

Anyway, I've fixed the (white primed so far, will be going grey) engine room hatches and started the smoke machines.  Here is a shot with the grey primed vent tops

 

DSCN2068

 

Similar logic applies to the top of the ready use locker, seems it should also be grey, why leave distinctive features to be spotted?

 

Also, started work on the duck boards, the one in the open bridge is pretty fiddly but looks Ok now.  I've read somewhere that the duck boards were also painted grey, even though every model I've seen seems to leave them natural.  I'll be painting mine and then distressing them back to expose the wood in wear places, much easier than painting wood colour, just use actual wood.... 

 

DSCN2069

 

Remember, everything is loose still not not perfectly aligned.  It cheers me up to keep building the detail before fixing, helps maintain interest.  I've also made the radio whip aerial, it has a tiny hole in its base for the cable, to be fitted later, roof still loose at this stage 

 

Overall shot of the boat from the side, starting to look the part

 

DSCN2070

 

One piece at a time

 

Steve

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Hi Steve, nice paint job so far ! I stopped trying to make sense of the white/grey pattern mostly because there is so much variation between different boats (on some boats specific hatches were grey, on others white etc.). Still generally speaking most vertical parts are white. The obvious exception here is the hatches but keeping in mind that most actions took place in the dark it may have been helpful for the crew to have objects like the compass and hatches stand out in poor lighting conditions.

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

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13 hours ago, Arjan said:

I stopped trying to make sense of the white/grey pattern mostly because there is so much variation between different boats

I agree, there were variation even within a flotilla, seems they did what they wanted to some extent, all we can do it find the best and most logical scheme. 

 

I've settled on S-46 for the model btw, assuming the attribution on the picture below is correct.  With the 2nd Flotilla based in the channel and according to Fock, mounted a Bofors so ticks the boxes I need and it gives me a nice acorn to draw

 

S-46 the 2. SFltl with Acorn

 

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Etchings delayed because of staff sickness still plenty of others jobs still.

 

As I've said before, I paint my flags, but this Kriegsmarine flag is a first for me.   I have to say that for people of my generation (early 1950's) the war was still quite fresh as I grew up, bomb sites still remained undeveloped in the east of London where I lived.  Painting the swastika was an odd experience, my first axis model..  Anyway, its pretty fussy with those thin inner black lines.  After painting both sides (tulip fabric paint btw) and edging it with varnish to prevent fraying, like all the others, I soaked it in very weak PVA  and hung is to dry in the right shape.  I always use this little jewellers hand vice to weight it down and hold the shape while it dries.  Interestingly the ensign is quite small by RN standards.  From pictures and drawings, I've scaled it to 72 cm x 120 cm, don't know if that's correct, but I'm not doing another one 

 

DSCN2071

 

The flags needs to hang on something, so here is the ensign staff and also the two poles that support the outer wire aerials that come from those angled poles at the rear of the bridge.  The angled feet are silver soldered to 1.5 mm tubing that sleeves over the 1 mm pole.  Doing it this way prevents the pole from getting too much heat which softens it and makes it bend when you want it straight.  Continuing the wire work, I've also made up the forecastle handrails but they will be shown tomorrow once the hull is back the right way up

 

DSCN2072

 

The black topping paint spray arrived so I was able to paint the lower hull.  I'm using Vallejo paints, the Kriegsmarine set they supply so this hull is Fire Red.

 

DSCN2074

 

 

The upper hull is still very white primer, will paint that tomorrow once this has hardened off.  The small hole in the keel is for the stand pin (2 mm steel) so I can mount it on two turned posts as the other models I've written about


And here is the stern view with the propeller and rudders in place.  The outer pair are turned out at 17 degrees for the Lürssen-effekt.  I still love those cast bronze propellers

 

DSCN2073
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Lack of etchings is slowing progress where I want to make it, still I've painted the upper hull 3 coats and addressed a number of other little jobs (chain compressor on the foredeck etc).  I also hung the ensign (anybody notice that I had suspended it upside down?)  Re-done the right way up now.  Handrails on the foredeck made and in primer, not fixed as yet, foredeck needs painting but I'm waiting for the hatches which are on the etch sheet, that edge with the white will of course be cleaned up then

 

DSCN2075

 

Really pleased with the anchor which I managed to draw and print today, just sitting on the deck in this shot.  Also printed the searchlight, very excited about that, its a beauty ...

 

DSCN2076

 

If I have a pet hate about ship models, its flags left flat and sticking out, who ever saw a flag doing that? 

 

Btw, the radio posts are not fully down in this shot, I need to remove some of the primer as they are a very tight fit.  I really want to canvas the deck, but need the etched gun platform to finally position the kitchen roof and that needs to be fixed before I lay the canvas.  Still, its coming together quite quickly really

 

Steve

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Stanchions!!

 

In the past I've used split pin stanchions mounted to an etched base, but the German stanchions are quite different, a  tube with a loop at the top and a hole through the centre.  So, the challenge is to drill a 0.5 mm hole perfectly through a 1 mm dia tube without breaking the drill, 42 times.

 

The answer is a drill guide.  2 mm tubing T soldered together with a 1.5 and 1 mm tube in the leg and a 1.5  mm tube in the cross, all mounted in a wood for the vise to grip without crushing anything and set up vertically for the drill press

 

DSCN2077 DSCN2078

 

The short leg of the cross is exactly the right length for the upper section so with the end aligned, the hole is perfect.  10 drilled so far without a problem :yahoo:

 

Then I needed a new soldering jig for the base alignment (aluminium prevents too much scotching)

 

DSCN2079

 

First 2 complete, only 40 to go....

 

DSCN2080

 

I'm really pleased with the last few printed items, below the searchlight and DF loop (printed base, loop in brass).  Note the wing nuts on the searchlight front showing the amazing detail achievable with these printers... These mount on the roof of the radio room

 

DSCN2082

 

Lastly, hull painting update, still not perfect but getting tidier now.  Anchor resting in place, very pleased with that as well.  See how the canvas finish lifts the deck, well worth it.  I laid that along the deck but the rear deck seems to have been laid across, probably easier to deal with than very long lengths

 

DSCN2084

 

Steve

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Great work Steve ! According to  S-46's service history the Bofors gun was installed in July of 1942 at  Ålesund in Norway. The boat was transferred from Kiel (Germany) to IJmuiden (Holland) on September 10 -11 1942. As it happens a very nice series of pics of S-46  is currently offered on ebay :

 

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=Schnellboot&_sacat=15504

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Arjan said:

As it happens a very nice series of pics of S-46  is currently offered on ebay

Thanks Arjan, some great shots there. 

 

A little story.  Over 20 years ago when I was 2 years into the 4 years I spent building HMS Medea (the destroyer my grandfather served on in WW1) I found some pictures in Edinburgh Public Record Office that were taken in the fitting out basin at John Browns on the Clyde.  They were fantastic but set me back 6 months as I had so much to rebuild as a result :banghead:  The danger of finding quality pictures of an actual vessel, it's never what you've assumed....

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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Steve - she's looking magnificent - I love all the solutions - the flag is terrific :clap2:

You mentioned a couple of posts back that you were moving soon - all the very best in anticipation of that

Hope it doesn't slow the progress down

Rob

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12 minutes ago, Steve D said:

.... A little story.  Over 20 years ago when I was 2 years into the 4 years I spent building HMS Medea (the destroyer my grandfather served on in WW1) I found some pictures in Edinburgh Public Record Office that were taken in the fitting out basin at John Browns on the Clyde.  They were fantastic but set me back 6 months as I had so much to rebuild as a result :banghead:  The danger of finding quality pictures of an actual vessel, it's never what you've assumed....

Yes, this happened to me as well. :rolleyes:  Thirty years between my original Fairmile 'D' build (using two b&w photos for reference) & the rebuild after John Lambert's books were published. 

 

John

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Steve , don't draw hasty conclusions regarding these ebay pics,. The pics were probably made in early 1942 , whereas these boats were continuously modified (initially even bow guns were not fitted ). Also I doubt if all the photos show S-46, at least two seem to show another type of Schnellboot ?

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

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2 hours ago, Arjan said:

Steve , don't draw hasty conclusions regarding these ebay pics,

Don't worry, I realise these vessels changed all the time.  All we can ever do it attempt to present something that is reminiscent of the time.  That's good enough for me

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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3 hours ago, robgizlu said:

it doesn't slow the progress down

Rob,

 

The pressure is on to get it finished.  If I leave it until I'm back in business, I'll have forgotten everything and need to start again :worry:

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11 hours ago, Arjan said:

 Also I doubt if all the photos show S-46, at least two seem to show another type of Schnellboot ?

 

My hunch was correct, my German virtual friends confirmed these two photos actually show a type S-30 boat :

 

hdl9qTQ.jpg

CTzCCxq.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

 

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I've mentioned HMS Medea a few times in the past two years but not uploaded any pictures.  She sits in the hall on a shelf in a large glass case that takes two people to move, @ 1:48th scale, she is nearly 6 feet long.  The glass makes pictures difficult due to reflections.  When we (hopefully) move, I will take the opportunity to take some quality pictures and post them on a RFI thread.  I completed the project almost 20 years ago and it marked my transition into scratch building.  It took me 4 years and almost 3,000 hours to complete and contains an estimated 30,000 bits of stuff.  Mad, I could not do it today, it was a labour of love

 

Here is a taster, she is modelled in black and equipped as she was just before Jutland, as a flotilla leader with the Harwich force.  She missed Jutland as she was in Chatham dockyard having hit a mine a month earlier.  My grandfather was an engineering warrant officer onboard, he survived the war and even made it to Dunkirk on one of the little ships

 

DSCN2085

 

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1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Have read through the whole thread over the last few days.

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for the nice comments and all those likes, quite a marathon read.  I'm doing my best to get this completed in a short timeframe as we are moving in March and I'll loose the workshop for a period then, so I have to get this done before we start packing, the pressure is on, hence the frequent posts.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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A couple of questions if I may:

 

Firstly- I note sometimes you have chosen to use flat sheets of copper in some places. Any advantages over brass sheets? I understand that copper is more malleable than brass so I understand why you use it when hammering out complex shapes but am interested in why you chose it for flat surfaces.

 

Secondly - I really like the fabric non-slip decking. How did you attach it to the deck?Did you use any special type of glue for example?

 

Any comments welcome.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

I note sometimes you have chosen to use flat sheets of copper in some places

I use copper for these structures because it is so forgiving and I'm certainly no silversmith.  You will see that I build them up on wooden bucks, often left in place for strength.  You can also cut 0.3 mm copper sheet with a knife, deep score and then bend until is fatigues and snaps leaving a perfect edge.  Not having a worktop mounted guillotine, I cut brass sheet with snips and they tend to curve and bend the metal, meaning I have to than flatten and straighten it, all more work really.  So, while copper is soft, its quicker and easier to work with.  Also, it soft solders really fast with the micro blowtorch, the solder runs to the joins and acts as a filled for strength of the joint, easy

 

1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

I really like the fabric non-slip decking. How did you attach it to the deck?Did you use any special type of glue for example?

I like it as well, if the real boat had a canvas deck, why not do the same on the model?  I think that maybe people used to working with kits see plastic as the solution to everything.  I think its more fun to use a range of materials (and I'm useless with plastic)  At scales of 1:48th and greater these textures matter to the final finish.  The canvas in this case is cheap linen handkerchiefs, sprayed with acrylic varnish to prevent fraying and stuck down with diluted PVA (in fact normal wood glue).  Painted on the deck and the canvas soaked in it, sticks fine, quick and easy

 

Any other question, I'm always happy to help and thanks again for your interest in my thread

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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Great answers - very clear.

 

You now have me thinking very hard about the possibilities that working with copper sheets open up.  I also have experienced brass curling up when cut with tin snips but had not previously thought about copper.

 

I really like the whole ‘if metal - then metal’ idea. I can see some of that thinking in my next project.

 

Thanks again and good luck with the move.

 

 

 

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