Type 38 Schnellboot build

[longshanks]

Nice work Steve 

 

Amazing that they could get 40 knots out of a displacement hull 

 

Stay safe

 

Kev

[robgizlu]

The Hull looks superb as do those props - another masterpiece unfolding 

And you make it look easy!!!!

Rob

[Steve D]

11 hours ago, longshanks said:

40 knots out of a displacement hull

I agree Kev, really impressive.  The hull is a really interesting shape, all subtle lines, always changing, but no bilge keels so without speed on her she would have rolled like a sick dog (do sick dogs roll?)

 

31 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

you make it look easy

Thanks Rob, but that's cos I'm only showing you the after, not so much of the before 

[Steve D]

Steady progress on the hull and deck houses today.  The rear one just sits on the deck but the engine room slots in

 

Here are the end frames for the rear deck house being glued up in the curve of the deck

 

 

And here it is completed (base flange from 1/64th ply) and the lift out box in progress .  The box is a gentle fit, it slides down with ease

 

 

The joint will be covered with a 1mm by 1.5 mm brass angle, seen below offered up to the completed box.  The two square holes are for the companionways so I can fit a ladder that should just show against the dark of the engine room.  No ladder in the rear one, too fussy, but at least I can have the hatch open, the inside of these square hatches is interesting with diagonal framing, probably etch those

 

 

You can just see above that the hull has had a coat of primer over the sanding sealer .  I'd intended to apply the first filler stage this afternoon but all my filler has gone hard, lucky lock-down ends tomorrow cos I need to get to Halfords..

 

The shot below shows the build up of the cheek moulding, three pieces of timber.   It finishes the pronounced flare to the bow and runs narrower to the stern.  These pieces will help me align the filler to achieve this (I hope).  This shot is out of sequence and shows the hull after the sanding sealer has been applied before priming.  You can really trace the lines of the hull in this shot.  The ply piece in the foreground is the shape of the torpedo cut-out to help me get the form right with the filler, its a little low right now and needs some building up

 

 

Onward

 

Steve

 

[Steve D]

Priming, filling, sanding, repeat, boring and dusty stage of construction with nothing much to show til its done...

 

Still, in between waiting for the primer/filler to dry, I finished the rubber dinghy, mini RFI below

 

 

Steve

[stevehnz]

I've just come to this thread today, I've obviously not been paying attention to have missed this till now. That is most impressive work on this, the curves on that Lurssen (?) hull are quite beautiful. I'll try to follow along on this, I've already got the Airfix low forecastle kit, (I did enjoy learning more about these vessels in your intro, thanks) & have recently ordered a Revell S-100 kit, so all & anything S-boot is welcome.

Steve.

[Steve D]

9 hours ago, stevehnz said:

I'll try to follow along on this, I've already got the Airfix low forecastle kit

Welcome aboard Steve, the more the merrier.  The low forcastle vessels make the most interesting models I think but I couldn't find enough information to make a scratchbuild work.  That said, the early S38 vessels are pretty cool and were the most common  mid-war.  The bow section of this hull is giving me grief right now, hopefully post some progress tomorrow

 

Steve 

[Steve D]

This plan is proving tough to achieve.  I meant to use 1/64th ply to cover the torpedo tubes but it really wouldn't bend that tight easily so I went straight for 0.2mm aluminium.  This has the advantage of being able to mark rivets with a back wheel, but many disadvantages, including it marks so easily and bending it exactly right without marking it is more or less impossible.  At least this is the worst it will look, once painted and all the details added, these slight blemishes either go away or add realism as thin sheet metal is rarely perfect on warships (excuses excuses...)

 

The exact shape of the launch hollow is really hard to determine, the back plate is flat as this picture of Kevin Wheatcroft's e-boat under restoration clearly shows.  It also shows the rivet lines down the face

 

 

Here is the first side sort of done, significant fettling still to come..

 

 

In the end I doubled the rear bulkhead to leave a land for the side armour covering the torpedo launch apparatus which sweeps round into the navigation light enclosure.  All together too hard to achieve in one piece, as I guess real practice would have been

 

That gaping hole gets filled with the torpedo tube end which I plan on making shortly.  Much more sanding and coats of primer coming, moving to white and red towards the end.  The grey is useful as it shows the blemishes clearly

 

By the end of the day, I'd got both sides in the same early state.  This bit is turning ridiculously difficult to achieve the quality I want, still we persevere, perhaps there is something to be said for kits.... 

 

 

Steve

[longshanks]

5 hours ago, Steve D said:

This bit is turning ridiculously difficult to achieve the quality I want,

 

Ah but it's downhill from here......... 

 

I can only begin to imagine the language used to get to this stage, now you know why I use plastic.

 

Stay safe

 

Kev

[Steve D]

My original hopelessly ambitious plan was to actually install the torpedo tube, for no other reason than it would have been right.  But, it's very hard to do, in particular the cowling on the outside of the tube is really thin and the strength at this scale just isn't there, so scratch that daft idea 

 

Holes below blocked up and more adjustment with the filler, still trying to get the scalloped edge the right shape and sharp

 

 

However, the torpedo tubes stick out from the surface ~6 inches, though the Germans probably thought in cm, so 15 cm.  This presented a challenge solved with wood and copper

 

 

The doors will probably be etched, they wrap round the edge so two etched plates back to back

 

Here are these stubs mounted on the hull (nicely out of focus, sorry)

 

 

More interminable sanding and priming, 6 coats so far I think, its getting to a position where I might be  happy.  Certainly its to the point where I can focus on the other hull details starting with the propellers.  Here are the turned shaft ends fitted, note also the very slight wedge feature on the stern to help keep the bow down at speed and the holes for the rudder shafts 

 

 

Bit tired of sanding, my left index finger is already so rubbed down that my fingerprints are almost missing, makes the biometric iphone access touch and go.....☝️

[Rob998]

6 hours ago, Steve D said:

my fingerprints are almost missing, makes the biometric iphone access touch and go

Or not 😉

[Steve D]

Working towards red primer, next stage is to complete the propeller and rudder assembly.  Happy now, back to brass 👍

 

That centre rudder/propeller support is unique in my experience, below is my attempt too recreate it, not fixed in place yet.  The rudder thickness and streamlining will be built up with 2 pack filler, too hard to do that in metal at this scale

 

 

And here is the starboard propeller and the first of those weird "Lurssen Effekt" rudders completed, again these will be filled out later

 

 

For the size of vessel, that centre rudder is really large

 

Steve

[Steve D]

Finally, some noticeable progress and the end of filling and sanding is in sight (little areas to touch up only, such as that rudder).  However, before that, I completed the stern arrangement of rudders and A frames, hull has shifted to red primer, leave a better finish and is close to the final colour below waterline.  Love those props...

 

 

 

I've also drilled all the holes in the hull and cooling water outlets etc. with aluminium reinforcing plates

 

And here she is on the stand looking purposeful

 

 

I've drawn the hatches in 3D and printed the first 8, handles from .5mm wire, these will work I think

 

 

The deck house is yellow becuase that is the filler primer I use to seal plywood and fill the fine grain.  This will get a super fine finish for painting.  In the background is the first wooden buck for the long vents

 

And here is the first one finished in copper.  Using my rule of metal for metal, copper is easier for these as I can solder the ends and (hopefully) add the wire to bottom using solder paste.  The glazed lights in the top will be added with a brass etching, I decided against drilling them out

 

 

Beginning to look the part now

 

Steve

[longshanks]

Shaping up nicely......

 

Stay safe 

 

Kev

[JohnWS]

 

John

[Steve D]

The build sequence may not make sense to people reading this thread (but then it doesn't make much sense to me either...)  With a scratch build, you have to make your own sequence and my goal right now is to get the hull to the point where I can apply the right primer colours, not sure why that's my goal, but it seems a nice milestone to get to.  To achieve this I need to add the torpedo tube armoured side frames and plating because the sheerline moulding is added after that point and I want that in place before I prime the white on the upper hull.  To add the plating to that, I need to sort out the breakwater because the side plating runs into it.

 

There are always components on any build that I am in trepidation of.  In particular I worry that I can make them well enough not to let the rest of the build down and so ruin my day.  The schnellboot is disarmingly simple to look at but there are a couple of areas I knew would be tough, this is one and the front section of the armoured bridge is the other.  This is the worst because of the double curvature.  I suppose I could print it (though its not totally straightforward to draw) but as its a major component I'm sticking to metal for metal rule, so it had to be copper.

 

Copper heated and softened takes double curvature well, but I'm no silver smith so how they get the hammer marks out always beats me.  Here is the first mould I made and the first attempt at this component.  Perfect tooling marks if I was making an Arts&Crafts bowl, not so perfect as it needs to be smooth...

 

 

Anyway, this one didn't fit so it went in the bin and a second mould was made.  Once beaten to some kind of shape with the flair at the top carefully filed, this needs a brass wire edge adding and then a lot of careful filing so that it sits down on the stepped foredeck.

 

3 more hours later, here it is sitting in position for the first time (sorry, slightly out of focus...)

 

 

I can work with this version, some filler and much more sanding will sort it out, strike on tricky piece

 

Steve

 

 

[GMK]

Lovely work, Steve. 

[beefy66]

fairly cracking along there Steve as to the hammer marks I seem to remember being told at the apprentice centre when doing my time no not prison an old fella telling the class that once we had the basic shape you could roll it smooth by some gentle heat and using a wooden rolling pin or doweling to help reduce the dimples   mind you that was nearly 40 years ago.

 

Stay Safe

beefy

[Pete in Lincs]

I've just done a catch up on this build. Put me down as suitably impressed.

I'm a long time fan of the MTB in general, and I love the lines of the S boots. Those, and the Allied versions were IMHO awesome bits of kit.

I remember building the Airfix S boot decades ago. Nowadays I scratchbuild Sci Fi so I understand how you've had to plan and plan again the build sequence.

Love the resin work. The Torpedo sights are amazing, the Dinghy is none too shabby too. And I like the props.

40 Knots? That is shifting a bit, though I don't know how it compares with the RN boats. With the shape of the hull, I imagine cornering could be a problem.

Not sure which filler you use, but I got P-38, post free for just over 7 quid from the bay. I stinks, but dries quickly. I've found rough sandpaper is good initially.

Anyway, enough of my waffle. You're doing a very impressive job and obviously enjoying it. I need to track down you Fairmile build now!

Cheers, Pete

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Put me down as suitably impressed.

Thanks Pete, I plough my own furrow as they say, self taught and full of mistakes. 

 

I've always admired ship models and do my best to create ones of my own, the best I can do with the tools at hand.  To me, a ship model is just a place to store other models, as each component should be treated as a model in itself.  Ships are unique in this way which is why I don 't build planes (even though I've been a pilot for 40 years and love flying) or tanks, even though I find them fascinating and can only admire how some of those models turn out. 

 

More mistakes coming...

 

Steve

[longshanks]

Impressive work Steve, dimples and all 😉

 

Stay Safe

 

Kev

[Steve D]

So, back to the build sequence.  At this stage of the project, things to build are somewhat a target-rich environment..  Plenty to choose from.  But to get the plated sides on, I really need to fix the breakwater, and to fix that, I need a 0.8mm ply base to mount it to that fits perfectly to the front of the charthouse, which in turn means I need to move the charthouse along, see how this works?

 

The charthouse is the single most challenging assembly on this vessel and because the sides are partially freestanding and structural, it needs to be in copper.  

 

So, I made a start today..

 

 

I've not decided yet whether the have the sliding door open or not, but not making a hole decides for me so I cut one out.  The window frames will be etched and added later btw.  In this shot, you can see that I've left space at the front for final fit of the charthouse to the foredeck.  This will be covered with the 0.8 mm ply breakwater base

 

 

Slow steady stuff

 

Examining photographs very closely, the deck to engine room casing joint is not an angle, its a quadrant moulding. so I've added that in lime wood.  BTW. I've printed the two large forward engine room vents which ae mounted to the main charthouse/bridge assembly.  They are ready to install when the time comes, 3d drawing below

 

 

Steve

[JohnWS]

Awesome work as usual Steve.

 

3 hours ago, Steve D said:

... a target-rich environment..  Plenty to choose from.  But to get the plated sides on, I really need to fix the breakwater, and to fix that, I need a 0.8mm ply base to mount it to that fits perfectly to the front of the charthouse, which in turn means I need to move the charthouse along ...

Don't you just luv how scratch building & locating most parts & assemblies is interdependent on one or more other parts & assemblies.  Challenging & frustrating at times, but in the end it's just a big  jigsaw puzzle.  Luckily, i think problem solving like this helps keep our ol' brains in relatively good shape.  

 

John

[DAG058]

This is looking good, I'll join you on this one if you don't mind.

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, DAG058 said:

I'll join you on this one if you don't mind.

Happy to have you along, I hope you find it informative

Cheers

Steve