McLaren MP4/5B Reference Questions

[Matt_]

I'm starting to plan out the build of my Tamiya MP4/5B. Does anyone know of a good source for reference material?

 

One part I'm particularly interested in is what parts are exposed carbon, and where that is the case, what is the weave. I see a lot of builds that have used twill weave decals all over the tub, floor, diffuser, inside of endplates, etc. There are decal kits that include most/all of these areas. However in many images it's difficult to see if this is realistic or not, and finding clear hi-res images of these areas is proving tricky.

 

I found this image of the MP4/5 where it appears that the tub is made from UD carbon rather than weave. With brake ducts and front tip of the nose in weave.

 

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1016910558-australian-gp/1016910558/?event_id=169999&race_type_id=54&year=1990&team_id=10&p=1

 

The main part of the tub also appears to have no weave in this shot

 

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1016910648-australian-gp/1016910648/?event_id=169999&race_type_id=54&year=1990&team_id=10&p=3

 

And in this shot it looks like the rear of the floor is weave, along with the visible parts of the airbox. Whereas the forward floor, diffuser, and again the main tub, are not.

 

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1017334055-spanish-gp/1017334055/?race_type_id=54&year=1990&team_id=10&p=9

 

( Appears to be the same in this shot of the opposite side from a different race - https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1017330608-belgian-gp/1017330608/?race_type_id=54&year=1990&team_id=10&p=15 )

 

Is this correct, or is it maybe just a trick of the light when the weave is oriented in different directions to the viewer? 🤔 Do some parts maybe use a more opaque resin?

 

Is the top of the airbox made from fibreglass, Kevlar, or just plastic?

 

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1017334083-spanish-gp/1017334083/?race_type_id=54&year=1990&team_id=10&p=10

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Matt_]

Also, does anyone have a recommendation for the best carbon decals? Something that has an extremely fine weave pattern.

[Kitkent]

I don't think I could answer your question,I recently made a 1/43 version and the carbon fibre is practically invisible. A good place to start would be to look at the Formula  1 modelling site. F1m.com if you haven't already found this! Good luck,Chris.

[Matt_]

I haven't seen that forum before @Kitkent. I'll take a look.Thanks. And that's my problem with the CF decals. To me, the weave often seems comically large compared to what it would really be in scale.

[Kitkent]

Also have you seen Scale Motorsport carbon fibre decals? Just an idea to start with,they are decent decals. I think Grand Prix Models sell them.Chris

[Neil]

On 11/10/2020 at 4:49 PM, Matt_ said:

I'm starting to plan out the build of my Tamiya MP4/5B. Does anyone know of a good source for reference material?

 

Regarding reference pics, there are some here, below (although the initial thread is about front and rear wings) which show some reasonably clear pics of the weave used:

 

https://www.f1m.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30498

 

To the best of my knowledge, many of the MP4/5 components laid up in carbon for the tub, floor, diffuser etc, used alot of UD carbon fibre panels, so no twill-weave pattern would of been visible on them. If you scroll through the pics in the above link, the UD weave is largely visible on the tub, for example, and the way the light bounces off it, it would appear that underlying plies of UD were probably laid-up beneath it oriented at 90 degrees and/or 45 degrees etc to the externally visible ply (for maximum strength/stiffness).  There could well be twill-weave carbon beneath it too (it would not be unknown for that), and possibly some form of honeycombe also ...... your guess could be as good as mine on that though! Permutations are endless.

 

The brake ducts definitely have an external, visible twill-weave carbon finish. The nose also has this external visible carbon layer of twill, it would be reasonable to assume that this is because the nose would have a slightly different function to the tub itself, and therefore designed with a different carbon layup/properties. I would guess that the nose was designed as a crash-structure, and made in such a way as to absorb as much energy as possible in the event of a prang?

 

Trying to gauge what type of carbon fibre that has actually been used on a particular component, from a photo image, is notoriously difficult at times. Viewed from a certain angle in some pics, the weave pattern is quite obvious, but view it again from only a slightly different angle it it simply looks black in appearance. Not easy to determine, sometimes.  I have been involved with the manufacture of carbon fibre components for several years now, including F1 and WRC cars, and when laying up items the carbon weave is very obvious, but stand back from it by only a few feet and the previously obvious weave pattern simply disappears sometimes ......  

 

Regarding the airbox/intake trunking, I would suggest that Kevlar (aramid) has been used in it's construction, in combination with a carbon fibre layup beneath it.  Kevlar (aramid) is often used in areas of potential high impact points; the air intake can be one of those areas, being very exposed as it was on the MP4/5 etc, with various bits of debris flicked up and possibly striking the intake.  The very front intake lip area on the pic that you have linked to is very 'yellow' in comparison to the rest of the intake behind it, possibly indicating a thicker ply layup of it at that specific point (for impact resistance maybe?). The rest of the intake behind that front lip is 'duller/darker' in comparison, possibly indicating a layer, or layers, of carbon sandwiched amongst the layer, or layers, of aramid.  Just a guess on my part, only McLaren could tell you the truth on that ....! 

 

Regarding carbon fibre decals, if the weave pattern is sometimes a bit 'obvious' and overly visible, a light coat or two of Tamiya Smoke airbrushed over them can tone things down nicely and make them look more acceptable. I did this on the airbox of a Tamiya 1/12 Suzuki RGV XR89 motorcycle in the Motorsport Group Build here on BM (over 10 years ago now I think!) and it toned them down nicely.

 

 

[Matt_]

Thanks @Neil. Lots of really useful stuff to chew on there. 👍 I've ordered a couple of decal sets that I could find in stock from UK suppliers. I may grab some other ones from overseas to get some extra fine and 1:43 scale to compare. There's a Studio27 set that looks like it contains various different layup patterns dependent on location. Only seem to be available on eBay at the moment for extortional cost.