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Camouflage airbrush help


BringUpThePIAT

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Ok so I had a really nice Wirbelwind build, all was going fine and I was pleased with the primer coat and base layers. It looked great. This was only the second time/build I’ve used an airbrush and all my experience on painting camo on models has been with a brush more than 30 years ago. 
 

I tried it on the Wirbelwind, Vallejo model air grun green with a dash of olive grun added to simulate fade. New Vallejo/H&S Ultra brush, 2bar/20psi and being gentle with the power. I figured it needed to be quite small, tight lines that I’d only need to go over once. I stated spraying and it was a catastrophe. 
 

Having the nozzle that close to the model just made the paint spatter, it didn’t really go on it just blew over the model and the lines weren’t defined at all. Pulling the brush away from the model the pain went on nicely but just shaded a whole area which as you can imagine wasnt at alll what I was going for. It looked dreadful. 
 

I ended up committing the cardinal sin - stopping the airbrush and trying to finish with a brush and that looked predictably awful. 
 

The main reason I got an airbrush was to do realistic looking camo. It looks so bad I’m either writing the kit off or might end up stripping all the paint off and redoing it. It’s that bad. Truly disastrous. At the very least I’ve got a donor model to use as a test bed to practice my airbrushing on. Shame really as it was going great until then....
 

Anyone got any ideas on what went wrong? 
 

I think I might have thinned the paint too much. 
 

Can anyone give me any tips, help, suggestions or info that might help. 
 

 

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I never managed to make water dispersible acrylics do the same thing twice so I can't advise on thinning etc. What I can suggest is using Blutac masking which mean you could spray from further back if that's the only way you can get your paints to work properly.

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1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I never managed to make water dispersible acrylics do the same thing twice so I can't advise on thinning etc. What I can suggest is using Blutac masking which mean you could spray from further back if that's the only way you can get your paints to work properly.

Believe it or not they don’t sell BluTack here in the NL. It’s annoying, they don’t sell Gillette Gel antiperspirant either. No idea why not. I have to buy it off EBay and gave it shipped. 
 

Would I be right in thinking BluTack masking is what it sounds like, ie: rolling sausages of the BluTack and using it to create the lines for the patterns to spray inside? Presumably it needs to be properly flush with the model surface to stop it seeping away? Anything else I need to be aware of? 
 

Anyway I’ll give it a go, thanks. 

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9 minutes ago, BringUpThePIAT said:

Believe it or not they don’t sell BluTack here in the NL. It’s annoying, they don’t sell Gillette Gel antiperspirant either. No idea why not. I have to buy it off EBay and gave it shipped. 
 

Would I be right in thinking BluTack masking is what it sounds like, ie: rolling sausages of the BluTack and using it to create the lines for the patterns to spray inside? Presumably it needs to be properly flush with the model surface to stop it seeping away? Anything else I need to be aware of? 
 

Anyway I’ll give it a go, thanks. 

 

Yes it's exactly that. You can fill in the gaps with Tamiya tape or just more blutac. It tends to stick fine as it is. You can get a sharp edge if you spray into the corners, or you can get a feathered edge by spraying over the Blutac like this:

7d35bec6-4e09-4b02-8e06-7850476510f0.png

 

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1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Yes it's exactly that. You can fill in the gaps with Tamiya tape or just more blutac. It tends to stick fine as it is. You can get a sharp edge if you spray into the corners, or you can get a feathered edge by spraying over the Blutac like this:

7d35bec6-4e09-4b02-8e06-7850476510f0.png

 

I’ll give it a whirl, thanks Jamie. 

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Water based acrylics aren't the best for on/off close in work at the best of times, but 20psi is too high it should be possible to spray at 10psi with a correctly thinned paint.  The results you'll get will depend on the airbrush, needle size and your skill to a great extent.

 

My advice would be to use Tamiya or Mr Hobby Aqueous paint much more forgiving will easily spray at less than 10psi and you don't have to thin the life out of the paint either.  

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6 minutes ago, Kev The Modeller said:

Water based acrylics aren't the best for on/off close in work at the best of times, but 20psi is too high it should be possible to spray at 10psi with a correctly thinned paint.  The results you'll get will depend on the airbrush, needle size and your skill to a great extent.

 

My advice would be to use Tamiya or Mr Hobby Aqueous paint much more forgiving will easily spray at less than 10psi and you don't have to thin the life out of the paint either.  

I’m going to do a lot of practice with the AB to improve the skill level and then I’ll know it’s the paint or pressure that’s the issue. My feeling is it’s just a case of trial and error as there are a lot of variables. No substituting for experience I guess. 
 

20 psi worked fine for the base coat etc but I’ll do some experimenting. 
 

Re the Tamiya paints, you could be right. I like the Vallejo paints as they mix well and blending is really nice. But I’m struggling to thin them correctly for airbrush use. Either too thick and the AB clogs very quickly, or too thin and it doesn’t go on and just blows around like a wash. I’ve heard the Tamiya and LifeColor paints are better and a bit easier to judge. 
 

 

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True water based acrylics (AK, Ammo, Vallejo are the common ones) can produce really good results but you need a good deal of experience both the paint, it's preparation/thinning and airbrush skills to get good results painting camouflage patterns, or most detail work.  Most of us have been there, believe you me, I certainly have, I almost got to a point of giving up, until a friend suggested Tamiya/Mr Hobby Aqueous, interestingly I was trying to do precisely what you are.  

 

I switched paint as suggested and bingo.  This allowed me time to perfect my skills and knowledge of airbrushing and paint, while not being disheartened by constant failure. I've since learnt how to airbrush water based acrylics to quite reasonable levels (IMHO) but I really only use them now to clear them, I'm not replacing them, my go too paints are Tamiya and Mr Hobby both acrylic and lacquer.  Save yourself a lot of hassle and switch paint you won't regret it. 

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1 hour ago, Kev The Modeller said:

True water based acrylics (AK, Ammo, Vallejo are the common ones) can produce really good results but you need a good deal of experience both the paint, it's preparation/thinning and airbrush skills to get good results painting camouflage patterns, or most detail work.  Most of us have been there, believe you me, I certainly have, I almost got to a point of giving up, until a friend suggested Tamiya/Mr Hobby Aqueous, interestingly I was trying to do precisely what you are.  

 

I switched paint as suggested and bingo.  This allowed me time to perfect my skills and knowledge of airbrushing and paint, while not being disheartened by constant failure. I've since learnt how to airbrush water based acrylics to quite reasonable levels (IMHO) but I really only use them now to clear them, I'm not replacing them, my go too paints are Tamiya and Mr Hobby both acrylic and lacquer.  Save yourself a lot of hassle and switch paint you won't regret it. 

Silly question but are Tamiya paints acrylic or enamel? 

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They're acrylic, but they're alcohol based but are water soluble, just use their thinners  X-20A you can also use Mr Hobby Aqueous.  You can also use lacquer thinner Tamiya X-20 or Mr Colour thinner, both have a version of 'self leveling' Tamiya is with retarder, Mr Colour strangely called self levelling.  It's all a bit complicated at first but things will sort themselves out as you gain experience and knowledge,  just stick with the X-20A for Tamiya or Aqueous for Mr Hobby at first.   

Edited by Kev The Modeller
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I've been airbrushing acrylics for several years now and I still create my own masks to help with camouflage.

 

Here's what I did on my Halifax build before applying the dark green..

YzAeGMql.jpg

 

That's a combination of paper held on with blu-tac and masking tape with blu-tac at the edges.

Mark

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I use Vallejo Model Air almost exclusively and have never gotten a nice feathered edge when spraying freehand.  Very frustrating.  I use paper masks to provide a nice feathered but tight transition between colors.  I have an Italian M13/40 in the works which has five coats of primer on it, as I have attempted that many times with trying to get the camo right with Model Air to no avail.  My next go will be with Tamiya thinned with their lacquer thinner to try and get it right.  My suggestion, like Mark showed, is cut out paper masks and secure with low tack masking tape.

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Just this past August, I broke out my airbrush and after a few test runs on an paint mule, I sprayed this 1/72 Airfix Hurricane. The upper colours are Gunze-Sangyo Aqueous, thinned with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner, while the underside is Tamiya XF-16 Flat Aluminum, thinned with X20A thinner with a dash of Tamiya Paint Retarder. 

 

While not great, it did come out better than I thought it might. I sprayed at about 12 psi. through a Badger 150.

 

This is also the first time I have used my airbrush.

 

 

50373077998_7d963f6bf4_b.jpg

 

 

It was also my first attempt at masking, using Tamiya tape and some AML vinyl masks.

 

 

 

Chris

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I agree with a lot of what has already been said above in that I can get Vallejo model air to spray quite nicely but freehand camo, forget it. 
 

Again as with most people above I now stick with Tamiya and Gunze paints with self levelling thinners. Although I have recently discovered Hataka orange line paints which are pretty nice. 
 

Good luck with your airbrushing.
 

James

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On 11/10/2020 at 2:47 PM, Kev The Modeller said:

True water based acrylics (AK, Ammo, Vallejo are the common ones) can produce really good results but you need a good deal of experience both the paint, it's preparation/thinning and airbrush skills to get good results painting camouflage patterns, or most detail work.  Most of us have been there, believe you me, I certainly have, I almost got to a point of giving up, until a friend suggested Tamiya/Mr Hobby Aqueous, interestingly I was trying to do precisely what you are.  

 

I switched paint as suggested and bingo.  This allowed me time to perfect my skills and knowledge of airbrushing and paint, while not being disheartened by constant failure. I've since learnt how to airbrush water based acrylics to quite reasonable levels (IMHO) but I really only use them now to clear them, I'm not replacing them, my go too paints are Tamiya and Mr Hobby both acrylic and lacquer.  Save yourself a lot of hassle and switch paint you won't regret it. 

Oh mate.

 

I took your advice and gave the Tamiya acrylics a whirl and they went on like absolute poetry. There’s no comparison to Vallejo, they are absolutely different level. 
 

It’s literally amazing, thank you so much for your advice. Sticking to Tamiya for airbrush work now. Amazing. 
 

The Wirbelwind was so ruined before that I stripped it back to the white primer with an oven cleaner bath and it still came out ruined so I broke it down for spare parts. Suffice to say I resurrected it today and you wouldn’t believe the Lazarus style comeback. It looks sensational - amazing eh? :) very happy, thanks again mate 

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13 hours ago, BringUpThePIAT said:

Oh mate.

 

I took your advice and gave the Tamiya acrylics a whirl and they went on like absolute poetry. There’s no comparison to Vallejo, they are absolutely different level. 
 

It’s literally amazing, thank you so much for your advice. Sticking to Tamiya for airbrush work now. Amazing. 
 

The Wirbelwind was so ruined before that I stripped it back to the white primer with an oven cleaner bath and it still came out ruined so I broke it down for spare parts. Suffice to say I resurrected it today and you wouldn’t believe the Lazarus style comeback. It looks sensational - amazing eh? :) very happy, thanks again mate 

You are most welcome mate, I'd also recommend Mr Hobby Aqueous, they are just like Tamiya but have a much larger range of colours 👍   

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The advice provided is good, that being, to change to the easier spraying paints like Gunze and Tamiya. Although I would also extend this to the ease of using enamels and lacquers. Great to see the advice worked for you. I have found, that after your airbrush skills increase in proficiency, you will be able to return to the more finnicky water based acrylics, with some experimentation in thinning ratio and possibly the addition of a flow enhancer to combat tip drying, and spray them without issue.  How do I know? I typically find myself living in different parts of the world and have to use what I can source locally and then have to make them work. 

 

In my experience, the two key factors are the correct thinning ratio and air brush trigger control. I find pressure less of an issue although I do vary 8 to 20 psi dependent on the coverage, the distance I need to be from the surface for the width of the spray pattern and to also ensure the paint has the opportunity to self-level. It is not a make or break though. Typically I am 15 psi for everything (if my gauge is correct). I remember Spencer Pollard saying he did not vary pressure because he could not easily get to his regulator. For me, the exception is metallics, which always seem to lay down better around 20 psi.

 

I particularly like the name @BringUpThePIAT. It made me laugh.

 

Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

    

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Only real issues using enamels and lacquers is they are more toxic and smell a lot more, as does the thinner/cleaners required.  Which for some due to their modelling location and/or health situations can rule them out, you'll also need a mask at the very least or as I have a mask and extractor they really stink and are toxic.  They do offer excellent finish, although I've not airbrushed enamels for many years, lacquers I use for high surface finish like on cars or bikes, both Tamiya and Mr Hobby (Mr Color) do lacquer ranges, both are superb.       

Edited by Kev The Modeller
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I use Vellejo paints, sprayed through an older single action Badger.

I thin the Vellejo to a milk-like consistency.

 

I thin with 95% Isopropyl Alcohol, at 1/3 IPA and 2/3 distilled water, or bottled water. 

 

Any effect you want can be obtained with Vellejo. 

 

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6 hours ago, Longbow said:

I use Vellejo paints, sprayed through an older single action Badger.

I thin the Vellejo to a milk-like consistency.

 

I thin with 95% Isopropyl Alcohol, at 1/3 IPA and 2/3 distilled water, or bottled water. 

 

Any effect you want can be obtained with Vellejo. 

 

spacer.png

 

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I always suspected Vallejo could be sprayed with isopropyl but never gave it a shot as I had read about the paint “gumming up” once mixed.  Do you use this to thin ModelAir and ModelColor?  Any issues with tip dry?  Very interested because isopropyl is much cheaper than Vallejo’s proprietary thinner.  By the way, I’ve followed you work.  Phenomenal and first rate.

Edited by Matthew1974
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4 hours ago, Matthew1974 said:

I always suspected Vallejo could be sprayed with isopropyl but never gave it a shot as I had read about the paint “gumming up” once mixed.  Do you use this to thin ModelAir and ModelColor?  Any issues with tip dry?  Very interested because isopropyl is much cheaper than Vallejo’s proprietary thinner.  By the way, I’ve followed you work.  Phenomenal and first rate.

Thanks Mathew. 
I have had no issues with tip drying, or gumming up, with the Vellejo paint when thinned at the ratio which I use. 
 

I came across the mix in a YT video, after my local store ran out of Vellejo airbrush thinner and Aztec Airbrush thinner. 
 

I’d been using a large bottle of 95% IPA, for cleaning brushes, and following the YT instructions I just added 2/3 water, once the IPA was down to 1/3. 
 

I tend to mix my paints by eye, and of course test everything for spray consistency. 
 

ATB !!

 

Lee. 

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5 hours ago, Longbow said:

Thanks Mathew. 
I have had no issues with tip drying, or gumming up, with the Vellejo paint when thinned at the ratio which I use. 
 

I came across the mix in a YT video, after my local store ran out of Vellejo airbrush thinner and Aztec Airbrush thinner. 
 

I’d been using a large bottle of 95% IPA, for cleaning brushes, and following the YT instructions I just added 2/3 water, once the IPA was down to 1/3. 
 

I tend to mix my paints by eye, and of course test everything for spray consistency. 
 

ATB !!

 

Lee. 

Thanks for the reply...  when I get back to an Italian M13/40 that I have so far utterly failed to lay down satisfactory mottling on, I’m going to give the IPA/ water mix a try.  Cheers!

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