JOCKNEY Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I haven't built a Tamiya kit in longer than I could remember so this is the perfect opportunity. So remembering that these are supposed to fit together really well I trial fitted the major parts plus a bit of tape, and happy to report, it looks good. Cheers Pat 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Another worthy subject choice Pat That boxart scheme looks as if it'll be 'fun' to paint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 I don't have a copy of the instructions but I'm sure they will be somewhere on the web. The painting scheme I fancy looks like silver with closely grouped green patches silver underneath. ie. just like the box ! If anyone can advise if this is correct along with which green to use, it would be appreciated. Cheers Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Hi Pat, I have quite a bit of info on the Ki-84 including a few colour schemes. JAAF used a different set of greens to IJN - reputedly more of an OD shade in some instances, but as is always the case, pinning down the exact colour is not easy. The old Humbrol Authentic range had two different greens, one Navy and one Army and the conversion charts I have say use Hu155 for JAAF. IPMS Stockholm suggest 50/50 mix of Hu155 and Hu159. I know Jamie got advice from Nick Millman I think it was for his Japanese colours and Nick is a member of the forum so it might be worth asking him. Illustrations I have show anything from light olive to dark To be honest I do not recall seeing too many mottle schemes - mostly NMF or Dark Green over Aluminium/Light Grey - undersides seem to have been mostly unpainted from about 1944 onwards, but then Tamiya are Japanese so maybe they know something I don't (highly likely in fact). Certainly there are one or two mottle scheme in the pics in my copy of Bunrin Do on the 84, and a few others which could be mottle or the usual Japanese problem of poor preparation and a single coat of paint that promptly peels off. Ditto in Koko-Fan JAAF & JNAF colours and markings. I will have a dig around and see what comes up/ Pete Edited November 11, 2020 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Most Hayates seem to have been bare metal or green/khaki. mainly the latter, but that's maybe just the ones I've seen. I think I've seen a profile as described but not a photo. To be fair, the paint peeling is only seen on very late production aircraft because the Japanese no longer had any source for primer. This particular kit is very old, so I wouldn't place too much trust in its advice. Accurate knowledge of Japanese colours has only become available very recently. Nick no longer visits this forum, sadly, but he does publish a blog on Japanese aviation so that might well be worth chasing up. Sovereign Hobbies Japanese colours were modified in some cases from their White Ensign origins, in line with Nick's recommendations. I'm no longer sure which, except that Jamie did introduce a new Khaki (closer to an olive drab) which would do nicely for a Hayate. Some Hayates also had a light/mid green colour on their propeller blades, which does look different. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Pat, Nearest I have found so far is this. I actually built this kit donkeys years ago but I either went for green/grey of NMF - think it is in my roof somewhere. The instructions say the box art is some sort of "emergency flight" I believe whereas the above pic is an aircraft of 25 Sentai 2nd Chutai allegedly and the camo is described as "unusual" as some of the mottles appear to have outlines painted that have not been filled in - rush job perhaps. Graham is right about prop colour variations - standard red/brown front and black back but on Ki-84 could also be what I gather was a dark greyish green colour. Cockpit interiors are problematic but perhaps a khaki-ish colour or maybe a grey/green. Later - you might find this from Nick's Blog useful. http://www.aviationofjapan.com/search?q=ki-84 Incidentally this came up in a different GB but I mentioned that Jamie had reduced the number of greens and greys that were in the White Ensign colourcoats Japanese range, and he confirmed that to be the case after consultation with Nick and he has also added a few colours that are now believed to be more accurate than the previous efforts. As Graham says, more detailed study recently has corrected a few probable misconceptions eg Orange! Pete Edited November 11, 2020 by PeterB 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 The top one in the link below is the one I had in mind. http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/reviews/decals/lifelike72027reviewrk_1.htm Looks like green over NMF but could be grey ? Cheers Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I'd say most likely over NMF with my addmittedly limited understanding of the subject Pat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Hi Pat, As I mentioned earlier I was under the impression that towards the end of the war the Japanese air forces both stopped painting undersurfaces and left them NMF, but looking at Nick's blog, he says I think that they restarted painting the undersides of the Franks in grey by 1945. However I am not sure if that would would be painted all over as a base for the mottle. My own choice would be NMF. Pete Edited November 12, 2020 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 It will make a nice change to have something shiny to look at ! Thanks Gents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) Hi Pat, Thought this might be of use before you start building - pics of a preserved Ki-84 cockpit. Needless to say this totally contradicts what I said earlier about cockpit painting as it appears to be in the somewhat notorious metallic green/blue primer called aodake iro (various spellings). Supposedly it was applied to bare metal, and for a few years modellers splashed it on liberally - it is in the Xtracolour range and some others but not Sovereign Colourcoats I think. Then sources started to say that it was usually covered with a coat of paint and could only be seen in spaces behind instrument panels etc where they could not reach or could not be bothered. Well here is is all over the shop though in some places like the floor is does look as if it has either worn back to metal, or perhaps is showing through a worn coat of something that was painted over it - not sure which! I am afraid this is entirely typical - we know a lot more about Japanese paint schemes than we used to but still find exceptions. This is from a Japanese magazine from about 1985. Pete Edited November 13, 2020 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) Having said that, whoever took the pics was using flash and the exterior green has a bluish tinge, so maybe it is badly faded camo paint not primer - see what I mean about Japanese paint being a minefield! Not sure if that is original paint or an old museum job! This could be the same one later or maybe the one in the US that was I believe given back to Japan? I can't read the Japanese text! Actually, according to wiki it is likely that both are the same plane - "One example captured at Clark Field during 1945, serial number 1446, was transported aboard the USS Long Island aircraft carrier to the United States. In 1952 it was sold off as surplus to Edward Maloney, owner of the Ontario Air Museum (Planes of Fame Air Museum) and restored to flying condition before being returned to Japan for display at the Arashiyama Museum in Kyoto in 1973. With unsupervised access allowed to the aircraft, parts were stolen from the Ki-84, and coupled with the years of neglect it could no longer fly. Following the museum's closure in 1991, the aircraft was transferred to the Tokko Heiwa Kinen-kan Museum, Kagoshima Prefecture, where it still is displayed to this day. It is the only surviving Ki-84". Seems to be missing a cannon. That is more like the olivish green I was thinking of. The yellow prop tips are apparently typical for the 84 and unlike most Japanese planes that had a second stripe about where the yellow tip ends! Looks like the blades are black which may not be correct -see earlier. Given the drip tray and the date of the mag I am guessing these pics show the 84 before and after its first restoration (to flying condition). It has been restored again and now has both cannon! Pete Edited November 13, 2020 by PeterB 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 Thanks very much Pete As far as the prop was concerned I thought I would go with the same colours as my Renzan \ Rita from the Frog GB. The interior is going to be virtually invisible so I will paint the pilot and the part of the cockpit that can be seen under the canopy but not worry about the rest. Cheers Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimbledon99 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Hi Pat, Looks like a nice kit! Can't go wrong with Tamiya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andwil Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) Just by way of interest Hayate (Gale) is a three syllable word, Ha Ya the and does not rhyme with gate. A common error for westerners not familiar with a Japanese pronounciation. AW Edited November 19, 2020 by Andwil Correcting an autocorrect! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 Update as below, some filling Next up an opportunity to try the "Rub n Buff" As you can seeing goes on really well and easily, however.... It comes straight back off again just as easily, so your hands end up covered in silver ! Therefore, we are back to good old fashioned paint Any tips on a Humbrol or Revell Green I can use for the external camo, it looks a dark green ? Cheers Pat 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Nice work Pat, that's come together well. For the green on a Ki-43 I used Hu-30 darkened a bit with some blue-grey I can't recall the number of then weathered with a few slightly lighter greens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Hi Pat, This may be of interest. https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-japan/ Of course it is quite old and modern thinking may be a bit different but it does suggest paints/mixes. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Some progress this evening Started on the green over NMF It took a bit longer than I expected, also I found some paint that was close to the original interior colour I'll give this a chance to dry properly then a coat of Klear then black and yellow bits, in case the masking tape accidentally removes my new green paint ! cheers Pat 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Wow! That's some paint work Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 That's fantastic Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Hi Pat, As I mentioned in my Italian builds last year, I find my biggest problem when mottling is keeping a sort of random appearance whilst making the patches about the same size - you have managed it very well indeed and it looks ruddy good! What colour green did you end up using? I know it is a fiddle, but I actually find it almost theraputic. Cheers Pete Edited January 23, 2021 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks Pete I went for Revell Dark Green 36168, it looked right and being Acrylic goes on really well. I hope I dont upset the Japanese experts, in a repeat of the Renzan build ! Now masking for black and yellow then off the the spare decals box to find something suitable. Cheers Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Well so much for the coat of clear stopping the green coming off ! Having masked for the yellow and black areas, this was the result upon removing the tape ! I'll need to repainted these parts, now off the mask the canopy. cheers Pat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Ah damn, that's annoying Pat, nothing that can't be fixed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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