ProfSparks Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Hi All The 1/72 Spitfire is probably so ubiquitous that it can be used as an SI Unit. This is the Airfix "Project" iteration, in a plastic pouch, no Flying Hours, and instructions (still in colour) conformed to a leaflet size. I've happened upon two of these, so I thought I'd try out a couple of takes on RAF camouflges In the Port corner, we have AK Interactive AK-2018 Aircraft Grey Green AK-2015 Raf Sky AK-2011 Raf Dark Green AK-2012 Raf Dark Earth In the Stbd corner we have Hataka HTK-A025 Interior Grey Green HTK-A026 Sky HTK-A016 Dark Green HTK-A009 Dark Earth And presiding over them all are some decals from 3D-kits (I know they're for Mk.IIs, but I won't tell if you don't) I'll be doing the top two, 19 Squadron P7420, and 66 Squadron P7531. Apart from the reduced packaging and funky plastic colour, they're the same as any other 'new mold' Airfix 1/72 Mk.Ia Spitfire. I've triaged them, and combined the generic colours, wheels, props, seats etc Paint soon! Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, ProfSparks said: In the Port corner, we have AK Interactive AK-2018 Aircraft Grey Green AK-2015 Raf Sky AK-2011 Raf Dark Green AK-2012 Raf Dark Earth Compared to the RAF museum chips, I found the Dark Green to be too dark, and the Dark Earth to be a bit too biscuit/milk chocolate, Dark Earth has a very subtle greenish aspect to it. The Sky was a bit muddy. Sky is a quite intense pale green. They are not really horrible 'matches' but not great. Grey Green varies, the AK is a bit washed out. Of the other colours in the set(I have the set) from memory the Middle Stone and Azure Blue are OK, but the Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey are nowhere near. Still a lot better than their USN/USMC set! I have some eyeball matched Vallejo Model color matches for DG and DE if you want those? HTH 17 minutes ago, ProfSparks said: (I know they're for Mk.IIs all you need are the right props/spinners to make a Mk.II, leave the props loose and they can always be replace later. HTH T 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Always up for a Spitfire build and as you have two on the go, twice the pleasure. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 Hi All On 11/8/2020 at 2:20 PM, Troy Smith said: I have some eyeball matched Vallejo Model color matches for DG and DE if you want those? Hi Troy, yes they would be very helpful, thanks! I tried the original Vallejo DG and DE a while back that looked no-where near, and I must admit I'm not that impressed with their latest tries, hence a continuing search. On 11/8/2020 at 2:20 PM, Troy Smith said: all you need are the right props/spinners to make a Mk.II, leave the props loose and they can always be replace later. Ah, yes, more of this below... Anyhoo, I got the respective interior offerings sprayed Mix'n'match! A better comparison AK, on the left, a distinct green with a touch of grey, sprayed nice from the bottle. Hataka, on the right, distinctly grey with a touch of green, needed thinning and was a bit hit'n'miss Before I ventured down the Prop Rabbit Hole, the included props got a trial of some new white for me, some Vallejo Game Air 72.701 Dead White. Must admit, as a base coat it covered better than either my Stynylrez or Vallejo White primers, almost as good as Tamiya XF-2 Flat White On top of that went VA71.002 Medium Yellow ready to be masked and put aside Now then, where were we? Ah yes On 11/8/2020 at 2:20 PM, Troy Smith said: all you need are the right props/spinners to make a Mk.II, leave the props loose and they can always be replace later. I've a couple of Mk.I Hurricanes knocking about, so they should just swap straight in? Better blade shape, not convinced about the spinner, needs to be even more blunted Still, it could be met half way and should go on with just a little bodge I then remembered that I'd an Airfix BoB Memorial Flight set that boasted a Mk.IIa Does the prop look close? A better spinner profile? How about the Coffman Starter? Hmm, nope, and it's still got the starting handle hole too. Nothing between them that a session with Milliput and a file wouldn't sort. Thso, I'm in a bit of a quandry. Do I continue with these as Mk.IIa imposters with replaced props, or shall I remodel the spinners too? Or just do them as Mk.Is with the decals from the bags? Is there a decent Mk.IIa that I can use these 3D decals on or put them on these Mk.Is? As usual, I've let that naughty @Troy Smith pique my interest far more than I should have Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 hours ago, ProfSparks said: Hi Troy, yes they would be very helpful, thanks! I tried the original Vallejo DG and DE a while back that looked no-where near, and I must admit I'm not that impressed with their latest tries, hence a continuing search. Model Color Dark Earth - 70.921 English Uniform Dark Green - 70.894 Cam Olive Green RLM 80 a good match for US ANA 610 Sky is Pastel Green, which is very slightly lighter and greyer than MAP Sky. These are visual matches against the RAF museum book with MAP chips. 2 hours ago, ProfSparks said: Does the prop look close? None of the props show are Rotol. they are all De Haviland. this is a Rotol prop Mk.II it's a blunt unit, with broad at the base prorp blades. the one used on BoB hurricanes is for modelling purposes basically the same. Spitfire cockpits until late 43 or 44 are grey green until the seat bulkhead, behind is Aluminium dope, as are all the rest of the insides apart engine bearers. Thats engine bay, gun bays, flaps and.... Wheel wells, much debated. As best I know the outer wheel part is external , so the underside colour. The inner leg section is internal, so the internal colour seen here Spitfire Mk.I maintenance film UC well colour by losethekibble, on Flickr HTH 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 hours ago, ProfSparks said: Is there a decent Mk.IIa that I can use these 3D decals on Check the parts in the various Airfix boxings, the basic mk.I is a Mk.I, but the next series is an Early Mk.I/II kit, with an early 2 blade prop, and a a Rotol unit and coffman starter., as well as the DH unit. The Mk.Va kit may have these as well. No time to check at the mo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy G Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Check the parts in the various Airfix boxings, the basic mk.I is a Mk.I, but the next series is an Early Mk.I/II kit, with an early 2 blade prop, and a a Rotol unit and coffman starter., as well as the DH unit. The Mk.Va kit may have these as well. No time to check at the mo. Yep, Va has the same plastic as the I/IIa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 Hi All Ali dope on behind the seat, artistic licence applied to other areas More of a difference in the flesh, but close Sides buttoned leading to only light sanding and small PPP trails Wings on with varying amounts of persuasion Still undecided about the schemes, thanks again to @Troy Smith and @Andy G, though erring towards the dual kit supplied Mk.Ia DW*K, leave the 3-D for later Mk.IIa Thin pointy nosed supplied props just in case Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Nice start on these two - I'll be watching as I've got a new-tool Airfix Spitfire in the stash. In case you're interested and still thinking "Mk.II", there are some 3D-Kits conversion sets on eBay, still. I've got several of their sets and they seem very nicely moulded, including the Mk.II Long Range which will one day become a 66 Sqn aircraft! Cheers, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 17 hours ago, ProfSparks said: Still undecided about the schemes, thanks again to @Troy Smith and @Andy G, though erring towards the dual kit supplied Mk.Ia DW*K There were several DW-K 's https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/spitfire-mk-ia-dw-k-bob-airfix-1-72.37482/ "There were a few MK I airframes that carried the DW-K code, namely: N3289, P9495, X4067 and X4102." find a standard 35 inch Spitfire roundel, (note large centre spot) and you can do this as well as the kit DW-K or, find some or modify code letters a classic for confusion and change in RAF markings. D is an old plane, with smaller codes, J has the larger codes and modified A type roundel, and H has the right size roundel. have a read of this https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/01-Supermarine-Spitfire and the pdf here https://fundekals.com/spitfires.html You could do the large roundel DW-K in the mixed blue shade, and the other DW-K in factory Sky, DW-T could be easy to do by cutting the K carefully HTH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Hi Troy, One of the newer tool Airfix kits included the small coffman starter that sat just behind the spinner on the right hand side. It was the kit with the 2 blade Mk, 1 option. Might be worth seeking out. Or a small blob of milliput would do it or something similar. I might have something in my spares that could be made to suit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Paul J said: One of the newer tool Airfix kits included the small coffman starter that sat just behind the spinner on the right hand side. It was the kit with the 2 blade Mk, 1 option. Hi Paul the OP, @ProfSparks has some Mk.II decals. Both boxing's of the Airfix Spitfire, the early Mk,I/Mk II and the Va kit with these bits are mentioned above, the harder bit to source is the Rotol prop parts. @ProfSparks maybe worth asking if anyone who did the early version has the leftover Rotol prop parts in their spares? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 Hi All Thanks for all the various options suggestions Even though I'm quite tempted by DW*T, these builds are for the paint comparison so I think I'll do them the same OOB The canopies were dipped in Pledge And the cooler front opening was opened up a touch AK Interactive AK-2015 Raf Sky on the left, Hataka A026 Sky "TypeS" on the right, and Vallejo Model Air VA71.302 on the 1/48 Italeri mule in the middle The AK is decidedly a shade of green, whereas the Hataka is a beige quite close to the Vallejo. They both sprayed well with a little thinning of Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner I'll mask up and get the Dark Greens on. Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Steve i guess its too late now, but my biggest concern has to do with the exterior; i'm skeptical about either AK or Hataka's ability to stand up to masking, when applied to bare plastic and not a primer. Any test data back on that yet? -d- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 On 22/11/2020 at 21:21, Troy Smith said: Hi Paul the OP, @ProfSparks has some Mk.II decals. Both boxing's of the Airfix Spitfire, the early Mk,I/Mk II and the Va kit with these bits are mentioned above, the harder bit to source is the Rotol prop parts. @ProfSparks maybe worth asking if anyone who did the early version has the leftover Rotol prop parts in their spares? I think I still have the prop as I did mine as a Mk.1 two blader. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Hi All On 12/14/2020 at 6:30 PM, David H said: Steve i guess its too late now, but my biggest concern has to do with the exterior; i'm skeptical about either AK or Hataka's ability to stand up to masking, when applied to bare plastic and not a primer. Any test data back on that yet? -d- Hi David, so far all paints seem to be acting the same with regards to bare plastic adhesion. There have been a couple of scratches on the overspray while masking the lower surfaces, but the proof will be in the removal of the masking pudding. On 12/14/2020 at 7:44 PM, Paul J said: I think I still have the prop as I did mine as a Mk.1 two blader. Hi Paul, thanks for the offer, I'm fairly sold on doing these as the matching pair of OOB Mk.Ia, and keep the 3D stickers for another time. On with the greens! The AK-2011 Raf Dark Green (on the left) and the Hataka A016 Dark Green (on the right) are very similar in tone, with AK just a slightly darker shade. The Vallejo mule, however, is most definitely heading out on the Lime Green scale (even though it's their second attempt at RAF Rark Green 71.324 BS Dark Green) They must be very effective camouflage colours as they're almost impossible to get a representative photo of them. Anyhoo, they've each had a coat of protectorant, I'll let them harden before I hit them with the brown stuff . Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billn53 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I’ve been reading with interest your comparisons between Hataka and AK Interactive paints. I’ve been doing my own “paint duel” in my current project (dual F-4 Phantom builds), between Hataka Orange Line and Real Colors (which has expanded to include Mr Color and LifeColor). The difference in hues between paints (that are supposedly adhering to an official standard) is annoying, to say the least. I’m afraid I can’t contribute anything about how these paints adhere to bare plastic, as I’ve used primer on both my builds, and so far their resistance to masking has been very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Hi All A more representative green comparison? Left AK, Right Hataka. One of the modeling tasks that comes close to filling and sanding on my list of putting off until later, is masking. So, for most of the festive period, my spare modeling time has been taken up with masking It's all for a good cause though. When I started taping up the first of these, I figured that these probably wouldn't be the last 1/72 Airfix Spitfires I'd ever build, so I might as well make some templates that all I'd have to do was draw round and stick straight on. I'd previously invested in these masks, and with the help of @Troy Smith pointing me to boxartden, I set about making my own. This is the fourth time that this particular Spitfire has been wrapped in cheap masking tape, several ways of dividing up the splotches, surely a stern test for paint adhesion. On a side note, I purchased one of these Infini cutting mats as I thought it might come in handy every now and then, but it's been brilliant all the time. Cuts square and straight and consistent, wide, narrow, love it. Anyhoo, on with the task. First sketch out in pencil Then decide and ink Clear tape over and remove On 12/20/2020 at 12:36 PM, billn53 said: I’m afraid I can’t contribute anything about how these paints adhere to bare plastic, as I’ve used primer on both my builds, and so far their resistance to masking has been very good. As you can see there have been some patches of green lifted, but it's hardly surprising considering the sticking and removing abuse that she's had. Not to worry, paint applied stippled on with a small brush showed an acceptably Morecambe & Wise finish* They were stuck to a sheet of plastic card And carefully cut out And voila, Mk.I Spitfire Type 'A' camo masks, ready to be drawn round, cut out and stuck straight on I'm sure you'll all notice that these ladies are in Type "B", so the blanks were just turned over I suspect that if I hadn't just spent so much time masking and cutting and masking and cutting etc, I would have cut these out smoother, but at least here is proof of concept. As for the Italeri offering, that's 1/48 and I will put off repeating the mask marathon for another seasonal holiday. Wiggly Worms applied. I was going to use my Vallejo second generation colour for Dark Earth, but as I looked for it I remembered that the last time I tried to use it I was so enraged by it's abysmal spraying performance, and opacity, and finish, that I emptied it out. Stepping up to the mark is an old small plastic starter set tub of Humbrol 29 Dark Earth. I mean, how bad could it be? Answer: Not too bad at all! Thinned with a touch of Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner, it went on well, even though it dried like 60 Grit Sandpaper. As for the colour match to the AK and Hataka... All three Dark Earth are very close to each other. They were thinned with a drop of Vallejo Airbrus Cleaner, AK (Left) took approx three times the paint than the Hataka for the same density of colour, but apart from that there's little to choose between them. They haven't had a second covering of Pledge or varnish, so the DE is still matt compared to the DG. I'll get that on and move on to decals. Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve *https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2017-12-morecambe-wise-video-film-archive-restoration 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 OK, you asked... The large scale one is a horribly bilious green that looks nothing like. The other two are possibly both acceptable, depending upon which photos I look at, but the darker one looks better: the other looks a bit too green. All dependent upon your lighting, your camera, and my monitor, so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 They all look good to me Steve You thinned with airbrush cleaner? Oooer… what's the science behind that may I ask? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 9 hours ago, CedB said: They all look good to me Steve You thinned with airbrush cleaner? Oooer… what's the science behind that may I ask? Hi Ced, I can't remember exactly where I got this from, it probably seeped in from watching Y'Tube builds. It seems to work with a variety of makes, but I still use IPA for Tamiya 🤓 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 hours ago, ProfSparks said: I can't remember exactly where I got this from, it probably seeped in from watching Y'Tube builds. Flory probably? If you think about it.. cleaner is supposed to make the acrylic paint liquid enough to spray out while cleaning. So it stands to reason that it would act as a drying retarder, if you add a few drops in the paint cup. It does work well even with the 323 Dark Earth you've had trouble with (at least that's my experience). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Red Sox Fan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 @ProfSparks, thank you for doing this--it seems that Hataka colors more often than not seem to be closer than AK's--I was shocked at the difference between the RAF interior greens. Unless my understanding of RAF IG is off, I always thought it was a grey/green vice a green similar to US IG--really looking forward to how these look with decals. Best, Erwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus999 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 This has been fascinating so far. Thanks for sharing it. I've used Hataka's RAF colors and in person they look correct to me. It's hard to judge by photos, although having them photographed next to each other helps a lot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfSparks Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 Hi All I got the stickers on Notice how they conform like cheap party buffet plates? Not to worry, after two days of soaking in micro Sol they look like this Hmm, not exactly inspiring, but after a single brush over with Daco Strong we have this Meanwhile, on the Upside Down... After a swaperoo, they got a splash of Flory "Grime" That was wiped away with an old cloth Topsides got Flory "Sand" That was also wiped away The '48 also got Grime and Sand They all got a visit from the W&N Matt fairy, and their eyes unmasked A couple of days in the Isolation Box to fully cure, and they'll be ready for final assembly. Comments and suggestions welcome Cheers Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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