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Hendie takes the hump: 28 Sqn Camel.


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With the recent disastrous attempt at an F2b and with the realization that in many respects I'm still a novice

 

I decided that I am in need of some practice before I make a second attempt at an F2b. I currently have an Audax on the go, but you can hardly call that rigging (says he with complete naivete) so thought I should attempt something a bit more challenging in the rigging arena before another F2b becomes an FFFF (thanks for that phrase Crisp!)

 

My camera seems to have had an appetite and a few photo's have disappeared so you'll just have to bear with me and pretend that I actually did the things that you can see - I'm way too tight fisted to sub-contract my modeling.

First up was to prime a bunch of bits. Exciting huh?

 

PB010031.jpg

 

Rolling on I went to work on the engine. 

I should point out at this juncture that I am using the Revell boxing of Eduards Camel F1. I sincerely hope that the Eduard boxings are better than this.  Whoever Revell chose to mold this kit isn't on my Xmas list.

Almost every part has some degree of flash, and there's a parting line mismatch on just about everything. Why dammit? Parting line locks are off-the-shelf items available for literally a few bucks, yet companies always seem to skimp on this, yet with a simple machining operation these annoying mold mismatches could be eliminated.  Of course, this meant that pretty much every single part needs some kind of clean up.

Anyways... the engine. Eduard designed this kit with the engine components inside a circular runner. Nice idea and it offers great protection for very delicate parts, but how on earth do you get those parts out with causing damage?

Answer: I couldn't

 

PA310029.jpg

 

Even gentle application of a razor saw bent the parts. In the end I cut off those spindly  bits and replaced them with wire. That meant having to drill 2 x 03 mm holes through the tappets on each cylinder. Oh what joy.

 

PB030034.jpg

 

I also had to drill all the receiving holes in the crankcase and hope I got everything aligned properly.

 

PB030036.jpg

 

I wish I could remember what paint and what sequence I used for this engine color as I'm really pleased with how it turned out. The photo doesn't really do it justice. I know I used two flavors of Alclad but that's about it.

 

PB040040.jpg

 

I removed the rather misshapen blob of a filler cap on this oil tank and replaced it with brass rod

 

PB040038.jpg

 

For the floor I used Dull Aluminum BMF.  It still seems darned shiny to me

 

PB040042.jpg

 

The instrument panel, though basic is still challenging to paint.  This is probably some of my best detail painting to date. More luck than skill though.

 

 

PB050043.jpg

 

A bunch of work was done on other internals all captured for all eternity on the lost for all eternity on the great disappearing photos.  Detail painting the interior. Adding thee cross bracing. A few control lines, oil lines etc. Then it came time for the last component before closing up the fuselage... the pilots seat.

Well, not one of Eduards finest moments, lets say. I considered nicking the chair from the failed F2b, but it didn't feel right so I had to come up with an alternative... okay, lets have a bash at making one from scratch and see what happens.

1. (sorry for the blurry shot)  Using the kit part as a template I drew around the seat a few times on some scrap styrene

2. A length of brass wire was bent around a tube of suitable diameter, then the ends were bent over - this was my third attempt to get the right dimensions/bend radius. Two holes were then drilled in the styrene, the wire stuck in place and superglued. A small strip of styrene was then glued around the base to form the "U" shape of the seat pan

3. A ratch around my scrap drawer produced a piece of diamond pattern brass mesh that looked about right so this was cut (roughly) and glued to the small strip on the seat pan.

4. Excess mesh was trimmed back and the remnants bent over the brass wire forming the seat back.

5. Two more sections of brass mesh (smaller weave) were then glued onto the seat back, and the seat back was then coated with Mr Dissolved Putty

 

PB050044.jpg

 

Which, when painted up has a passing resemblance to a WWI type wicker seat.  I'll stick my neck out here and say that I think it's better than the kit part. (need to tone that gloss look down a bit though)

 

PB060050.jpg

 

Here's the state of play so far. 

 

PB060051.jpg

 

I followed the kit color scheme for that fuel tank but now I'm not so sure - I may attempt to paint it a more bare metal color though it's not really going to be seen.

 

I'd better go and feed my camera prior to the next session

 

 

 

 

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For rigging: I saw your experience.

Bad. I also had my own experiences.

Make your eyelets.

Look at my profile, at the beginning you find all about eyelets.

The rigging you did, omittes the few on the area you work. So you are blind.

On the other hand, the feeling of tension during rigging is not there, if you proceed in your way.

I am a burnt modeller on biplanes.

I learnt bloody my lessons.

Happy modelling

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Its a nice kit, I have not seen your F2B thread update so will check out but this will go together well.  Currently building the Eduard version of this kit and it is very nice indeed. Great start

Chris

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3 hours ago, hendie said:

More luck than skill though.

 

🤣 Anyone buying the idea that Alan is lucky rather than an egregiously talented, skilful modeller?  Nope, nor me! 😂😂😂

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And that's how scratch building is done.... :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy: 

 

1 hour ago, Fritag said:

Anyone buying the idea that Alan is lucky rather than an egregiously talented, skilful modeller?  Nope, nor me! 😂😂😂

Nor me either :D 

 

Ciao

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5 hours ago, hendie said:

 That meant having to drill 2 x 03 mm holes through the tappets on each cylinder. Oh what joy.

You know you love it. And, Nice wickerwork. Plus all the other stuff. Obviously.

Probably no bar in this one then.

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That seat is outstanding! I'm looking forward to seeing this one come together.

 

Ian

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Brilliant seat.  
 

 

 

 

FFFF was merely handed on by me; it cones from a wonderful Irish naval officer who was at Dartmouth with me in 1978.

 

[It stands, for those who don’t know, for “the f*cking f*cker’s f*cking f*cked”]

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Room for one more?

Only just found you've temporarily binned your F2B and found this one. Always learn from watching your builds with your attention to detail this is going to be a superb replica of Sopwiths finest!

 

 Stay safe        Roger  

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We had a phrase we used when flying Cessna 402s in Hyannis, MA. Always a balance issue when full pax with little baggage in the nose, so we just told the Rampies "Triple F".

Fat f*****s forward.

The construction workers who flew regularly knew it and would ask if we were Triple F when they boarded!

 

Ian

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Squeezing in at the back here. This one looks to be another good'n. Slightly ashamed as it happens as I have the 1/48 Eduard Camel, making its way to become a Swallow, sitting on my shelf of started but yet to finish projects. Must get back to that soon.

 

Terry

 

 

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Seating par excellence - the Wicker Man lives! 👏

23 hours ago, hendie said:

With the recent disastrous attempt at an F2b

They're called biplanes because they can go either way....

 

 

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On 11/7/2020 at 12:30 PM, dov said:

For rigging: I saw your experience.

Bad. I also had my own experiences.

Make your eyelets.

Look at my profile, at the beginning you find all about eyelets.

The rigging you did, omittes the few on the area you work. So you are blind.

On the other hand, the feeling of tension during rigging is not there, if you proceed in your way.

I am a burnt modeller on biplanes.

I learnt bloody my lessons.

Happy modelling

 

thanks dov. I think I just need a bit more practice

 

On 11/7/2020 at 3:28 PM, bigbadbadge said:

Its a nice kit, I have not seen your F2B thread update so will check out but this will go together well.  Currently building the Eduard version of this kit and it is very nice indeed. Great start

Chris

 

I hope the Eduard version of the kit is better quality than the Revell boxing of the Eduard kit - the Revell kit is very poor

 

On 11/7/2020 at 3:50 PM, Fritag said:

 

🤣 Anyone buying the idea that Alan is lucky rather than an egregiously talented, skilful modeller?  Nope, nor me! 😂😂😂

 

hey! I can stuff things up just as well as the next guy. Better even...

 

On 11/7/2020 at 5:11 PM, giemme said:

And that's how scratch building is done.... :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy: 

 

Nor me either :D 

 

Ciao

 

Thanks G - I'm trying to raise my game to your level

 

On 11/7/2020 at 5:14 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

You know you love it. And, Nice wickerwork. Plus all the other stuff. Obviously.

Probably no bar in this one then.

 

just the one the drivers feet rest on Pete

 

On 11/8/2020 at 6:14 AM, Brandy said:

That seat is outstanding! I'm looking forward to seeing this one come together.

Ian

 

thanks Ian. - it's providing challenges on several fronts at the moment

 

On 11/8/2020 at 6:44 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Brilliant seat. 

FFFF was merely handed on by me; it cones from a wonderful Irish naval officer who was at Dartmouth with me in 1978.

[It stands, for those who don’t know, for “the f*cking f*cker’s f*cking f*cked”]

 

the alliteration just provides that extra panache Crisp

 

On 11/8/2020 at 6:49 AM, Hamden said:

Room for one more?

Only just found you've temporarily binned your F2B and found this one. Always learn from watching your builds with your attention to detail this is going to be a superb replica of Sopwiths finest!

 Stay safe        Roger  

 

thanks Roger

 

On 11/8/2020 at 8:48 AM, Brandy said:

We had a phrase we used when flying Cessna 402s in Hyannis, MA. Always a balance issue when full pax with little baggage in the nose, so we just told the Rampies "Triple F".

Fat f*****s forward.

The construction workers who flew regularly knew it and would ask if we were Triple F when they boarded!

Ian

 

:rofl2:

 

On 11/8/2020 at 9:02 AM, Terry1954 said:

Squeezing in at the back here. This one looks to be another good'n. Slightly ashamed as it happens as I have the 1/48 Eduard Camel, making its way to become a Swallow, sitting on my shelf of started but yet to finish projects. Must get back to that soon.

Terry

 

thanks Terry

 

On 11/8/2020 at 11:27 AM, TheBaron said:

Seating par excellence - the Wicker Man lives! 👏

They're called biplanes because they can go either way....

 

 

 

:rofl2:

 

 

Apologies for not really having a lot of time to post recently. The build is still progressing though.

 

After looking at the previous photos I decided I wanted to change the color of the fuel tank. What better way to represent dull aluminum than with ehrrr... dull aluminum. Except that the BMF turns out rather shiny when it's buffed down. Still better than the horrible color I had it previously though

 

PB070001.jpg

 

(reminder to self - tone that seat down!)

A few additional wires and a valve were added based on reference photos

 

PB070002.jpg

 

with all that done it was getting time to close up the fuselage, but there was one more item to add - the tail skid.

The kit part was scarily flimsy, as well as having a mold mismatch (as everything else in this kit) and I just knew it was never going to last the handling and jostling this kit was going to go through so I soldered a few bits of brass together

 

PB070003.jpg

 

which cold pass for a tail skid at a casual glance - once cleaned up and trimmed that is. You can see the flimsy kit part lying on the mat, as well as a failed first attempt in brass. Hey we all learn from our mistakes don't we?

 

PB070004.jpg

 

 

PB080006.jpg

 

Then I decided that I didn't like the kit breather tube(?) - I assume this is some way of getting cool air to the pilot?  Again, brass was brought into play.

 

PB080007.jpg

 

a small length was soldered perpendicular to the main tube, then painted up in dull aluminum

 

PB080008.jpg

 

it took a bit of phenargling but I managed to get the T shaped tube in there without breaking the fuselage apart.  I found that the instrument panel could be inserted later which was handy - that also meant that it could be positioned correctly in respect to both fuselage halves.  I always hate it when you have to glue an instrument panel on one fuselage side first and hope that it lines up later when you finally come to assemble things - I never get it right!

 

PB080011.jpg

 

For the cockpit floor, I used dull aluminum BMF again, and added a couple of lengths of wire for control cables. The control column was replaced with brass tube as the kit part was mince.

 

PB080012.jpg

 

The pilots seat need a belt, so some Tamiya tape and a little piece of wire...

 

PB080015.jpg

 

trimmed to shape and glued in position

 

PB080016.jpg

 

at this point, the fuel tank was simply resting in position. I wanted to wait until I had the coaming in place so I could align the filler tube with the appropriate hole in the coaming (my OCD kicks in when circular objects are supposed to be concentric, and they're not)

 

PB080013.jpg

 

another couple of control wires were added

 

PB090021.jpg

 

Then the floor/wings were glued in position

 

PB080018.jpg

 

The kit instrument panel comes with cartridge ejector chutes molded in, but they were nowhere near aligning with the mating holes in the fuselage sides so orf they came - to be replaced with brass square tube (epoxy glue applied later)

 

PB090020.jpg

 

There is also an ejector chute on the coaming.  I'm assuming they are cartridge ejector chutes... but 3 chutes for 2 guns?

 

PB100022.jpg

 

The only square tube I had was a bit on the large side but some careful filing soon took care of that - you can see here just how much the tube was thinned down - trying to keep that "sheet metal" look

 

PB100023.jpg

 

when it came time to put everything together I found that the rudder bar was longer than the available space so some very careful filing (it was already glued in place) was required to make it fit.

 

PB100024.jpg

 

There were a couple of fit issues with the engine firewall/fuselage interface so I came up with this high tech jig to hold things in place

 

PB100025.jpg

 

Finally the engine was fitted though I'm still going to have issues with the engine cowling later.

 

PB100028.jpg

 

Port side view

Another thing to be addressed later is the air tube sticking out of the fuselage sides. On the few 28 Sqn Camel photos I have located, there appears to be some sort of fitting on the end of that tube and I cannot find a decent enough photo to get any real detail.  I assume it is a curved pipe pointing forward to direct the air into the cabin?

 

PB100029.jpg

 

I keep mentioning mold mismatch with this kit. Here's one of the struts - that mold mismatch is in the region of 0.5mm or greater.  Honestly, this is simply unacceptable in this day and age

 

PB100032.jpg

 

and you thought that was bad?

Take a look at the ailerons.  That is just ridiculous

 

PB110037.jpg 

 

and it just keeps getting better and better - this is the aileron dry fitted before any cleanup!

 

PB110038.jpg

 

a nice millimeter or so gap all around.  If you close up the gap, the trailing edges do not align. what utter crap.

 

Anyways... moving on, with the fuselage closed up it was time to prime. (after the tail plummage was stuck on)

 

PB100034.jpg

 

the seams turned out acceptable

(but the concentricity of that rearmost filler pipe is annoying the hell out of me - must see if I can tweak it without damaging anything

 

PB100035.jpg

 

Current state of play is researching which particular a/c this is going to be as there were so many variations in the paint schemes, and drilling gazzillions of tiny holes all over the place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Looking good! Bear in mind that most/all aircraft from this period would have had quite big gaps around the control surfaces. I'm not that familiar with Camel ailerons but a lot of aircraft didn't have rounded leading edges to the control surfaces and so required a gap to allow for movement.

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Great progress on this one Alan. Love the look of that fuel tank, although I wonder if the flyers of those days found it comforting having it sat right behind. I guess it has to go somewhere near the C of G though. 

 

The Eduard Camel is a respectable little model. Taking notes from this tutorial for my Swallow!

 

Terry

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Lovely and intricate work as always. 

The fuel filler, it annoys you but I bet they weren't all centered.

The Port side pipe, could it be a venturi for the instruments? 

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Great work, like the tailskid replacement, I didn't do that and used the kit one, guess what happened after only a short time handling !!!

I think Sabrejet is right there may well have been a gap around the movable parts back in the day .The Eduard kit is the same.

My shoots on either side would not line up, so I threw my dummy out of the pram and cut them off.  I don't have any appropriate square brass tube and so mine is without.

Chris

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4 hours ago, hendie said:

Thanks G - I'm trying to raise my game to your leve

Yes, sure.... you are the one that built completely from scratch a Pullman carriage using all available modelling materials and techniques, apart from sorcery, right?

Well, this one is coming along not bad either....

 

Ciao 

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Someone's been busy!

Lovely work on the interior there. The "breather tube" is actually the air intake for the engine and was fixed to the extended crankshaft. There was no carburettor as such on rotary engines, the crankshaft was hollow, and of course, fixed to the airframe - it was the engine, with the prop solidly attached to it, that rotated, not the crankshaft. The air and fuel mix was inducted via the hollow crank into the cylinders.

 

Ian

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Hello Hendie, call me in here. Uusal not my era of interest, but some serious and splendid modelling is going on here. So I will look at that with interest.

Cheers

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On 11/13/2020 at 12:38 PM, Sabrejet said:

Looking good! Bear in mind that most/all aircraft from this period would have had quite big gaps around the control surfaces. I'm not that familiar with Camel ailerons but a lot of aircraft didn't have rounded leading edges to the control surfaces and so required a gap to allow for movement.

 

Good point though I don't believe the gaps would have been as large as Eduard would have you model them

 

On 11/13/2020 at 1:43 PM, Terry1954 said:

Great progress on this one Alan. Love the look of that fuel tank, although I wonder if the flyers of those days found it comforting having it sat right behind. I guess it has to go somewhere near the C of G though. 

The Eduard Camel is a respectable little model. Taking notes from this tutorial for my Swallow!

Terry

 

Ignore the fact there was a war going on.... just given the novelty of the technology, the safety record, and the materials they were using. Every applicant to drive one of those things would be a prime Darwin Awards candidate today

 

On 11/13/2020 at 1:55 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Lovely and intricate work as always. 

The fuel filler, it annoys you but I bet they weren't all centered.

The Port side pipe, could it be a venturi for the instruments? 

 

you could learn something here Pete...

 

On 11/13/2020 at 3:35 PM, bigbadbadge said:

Great work, like the tailskid replacement, I didn't do that and used the kit one, guess what happened after only a short time handling !!!

I think Sabrejet is right there may well have been a gap around the movable parts back in the day .The Eduard kit is the same.

My shoots on either side would not line up, so I threw my dummy out of the pram and cut them off.  I don't have any appropriate square brass tube and so mine is without.

Chris

 

I would think there's enough room to shove a piece of brass rod up there even with the fuselage closed up Chris.

 

On 11/13/2020 at 3:55 PM, giemme said:

Yes, sure.... you are the one that built completely from scratch a Pullman carriage using all available modelling materials and techniques, apart from sorcery, right?

Well, this one is coming along not bad either....

Ciao 

 

Sorcery.  Dammit!  I knew I forgot something

 

On 11/13/2020 at 11:19 PM, Brandy said:

Someone's been busy!

Lovely work on the interior there. The "breather tube" is actually the air intake for the engine and was fixed to the extended crankshaft. There was no carburettor as such on rotary engines, the crankshaft was hollow, and of course, fixed to the airframe - it was the engine, with the prop solidly attached to it, that rotated, not the crankshaft. The air and fuel mix was inducted via the hollow crank into the cylinders.

Ian

 

Thanks Ian, that clears thing up

 

On 11/14/2020 at 2:20 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

Well that's my 'something new' learnt today.

 

See!  I told you so.Or rather, Ian did.

 

On 11/14/2020 at 6:42 AM, bbudde said:

Hello Hendie, call me in here. Uusal not my era of interest, but some serious and splendid modelling is going on here. So I will look at that with interest.

Cheers

 

Thanks bbudde

 

On 11/14/2020 at 6:42 AM, Brandy said:

Here's a good set of pics of a model engine showing how it goes together.

Ian

 

excellent info Ian - many thanks

 

 

Todays episode shall be a brief update with a starter question for 10 at the end of the show.

 

Mojo has been a bit weird recently - I am finding that even though I am spending the "usual" amount of time in the basement, I appear to be achieving very little over the last few weeks.

 

One of the almost insignificant advances I have made involved the inspection windows on the wing leading edges.  Eduard provide a chunky piece of vision distorting clear styrene which insert into a hole in the bottom edge of the wing.  The problem with that is that it does not allow you to fit the flying surface pulleys which can clearly be seen through those inspection windows.  Easy fix - ram a chunk o' plastic into the holes

 

PB120041.jpg

 

Once the glue had cured, the excess plastic was trimmed away and the surfaces evened off

 

PB130043.jpg

 

Now I just need to figure out (1) how to represent the pulleys and (2) how to make the windows and (3) how to fix the windows to the wing and (4) how to make the framing around the window.  I really should think ahead more.

In order to avoid dealing with that problem I made a small detour and fitted the tail flying surfaces instead. Not without some difficulty it must be said. The Camel put up a brave fight.

 

PB150044.jpg

 

Time to squirt some primer then.

 

PB150052.jpg

 

Since then, all  I have done is drill a few holes here and there, and stare at reference photos. The stare at the same reference photos. Again. And again.  I did do the tiniest bit of work on the Audax and then stared at photos some more.

I have however, determined which aircraft I am going to depict - No, not Barkers - everyone does Barkers.  I am going to (try and) depict Roy Foss' E1502, coded "J"

This one.

 

Roy-Foss-28-Sqn-Camel-E1502.jpg

 

I chose this particular aircraft for several reasons. One, it's not Barkers (did I say that already?),  and two, because I found two decent quality photos of the aircraft.

I had also come across reference that 28 Sqn painted a ~12" white square on the fuselage, and these photos confirm that fact.

 

The photo below is very interesting as it allows you to see the L shaped intake fitted to the ends of the breather tube Ian mentioned above, and that it stands proud of the fuselage to a significant degree.

 

Camel-E1502.jpg

 

What I also found very interesting, is that the second photo (^^ this one) clearly shows that there is a painted drop shadow on both the J code letter, and on the white square.  This was not apparent on all the other photos of 28 Sqn Camels that I came across.

I can see custom decals coming down the line again. 

 

Now for the  questions. First of all the drop shadow:  I found a forum where someone had produced a rendering of this aircraft, and had the drop shadow in a sort of deep red color. Now, going on the red of the roundels in these photos I am going to assume that the drop shadow is either black of a very dark grey. Would anyone care to counter my argument?

Second: Struts. In these photos the struts appear very different in color. In the top photo the struts appear very dark and in the second photo, they appear very light. In both photos you can see the Sopwith emblem on the struts.  Is the apparent difference in color down to the photographic medium? Or is it possible these struts were painted at some time? (though I find it difficult to believe the struts would be painted in the field and then reapplied with the Sopwith logo )

Is it likely that these struts were painted? Or am I going to have to go down the oil painted wood finish route again?

 

as an aside - Look at the starboard rear strut - notice the 'white' marking - any ideas what's going on there?

 

Lastly (for the moment at least). Overall airframe color. Looking back at the first Foss photo. There is a distinct change in hue between the fabric colored fuselage and the wooden panel at the cockpit, though the color on the metal panel forward of the cockpit appears to match the rear fuselage. Is this actually a change in color? or is it some artifact of the photographic medium and the gloss finish and/or something else.  To be honest I am kind of hoping it is a different color (black?) as I think it would make the Camel look more interesting

 

ANyways - any input from you knowledgeable folks on strut colors, cockpit panel colors and son on is very gratefully accepted

 

 

 

 

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Looking good in her primer coat, Alan :clap: 

 

And what an excellent choice on the aircraft to represent! :thumbsup:

 

Sadly, I have absolutely no clue about your questions :shrug: , so I'll just shut up and just keep admiring your work :) 

 

Ciao

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55 minutes ago, giemme said:

Sadly, I have absolutely no clue about your questions

 

Me neither Giorgio. It's an interesting conundrum this color thing. 

I'm leaning towards the cockpit panel being a different color. Mainly because the metal panels forward of the cockpit appear very similar to the rear fuselage so I don't think it's a change in material/texture that is causing that change in tonality. Confusing matters even more is that in the second photo, everything from the cockpit panel forward appears distinctly lighter in tone than the rear fuselage. 

Adding further fuel to the fire - both photos are taken at approximately the same angle,, in similar lighting conditions yet look at the blue flash on the rear of the vertical stabilizer in both photos.  There is a definite color shift from one to the other.  I'm convinced it is nothing to do with the photographic medium as the red, white, and blue of the fuselage roundels is identical in both photos. I'm certain those are two different blues.

 

Help!!!!!

 

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