Hawker P1127 - Airfix 1/72

[perdu]

5 hours ago, CedB said:

Spare PE bits, collected over the years in case 'they come in'.

Two tiny triangular things found, holes drilled in the hub and leg and then, with a suitable smattering of Anglo-Saxon, CA'd to the leg:

Still not using Gator's Grip Thin Blend for those recalcitrant etchy bits Ced?

[AdrianMF]

3 hours ago, perdu said:

Complete with visible decal film?

[bentwaters81tfw]

5 hours ago, perdu said:

 

The P1127 (Kestrel?) at Cosford has obviously been painted, fancy replicating this?

 

Complete with visible decal film?

 

I was hoping I had some better shots than this but this isn't even that good.

 

Not bad for the drift /slip/ wobble gauge in front of the driver's window though.

 

What do you think, keep searching dozens of set of pictures of visits to Cosford?

There is a full walkaround available.

 

[Marklo]

5 hours ago, giemme said:

Disagree: look at the canopy and windscreen frames...

I stand slightly corrected  still, very few 

[Julien]

2 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

There is a full walkaround available.

 

Thanks in part to my chief spotter, who makes an appearance in one picture!

[Marklo]

Don’t get me started on rivets and the scale representation thereof. Let me just say that irl for many years I was the (ahem) expert on jt8D-200 high pressure compressor case repairs; which could have up to 600 rivets apiece, I even got sent to TWA on one occasion to explain exactly how our riveting was compliant with specification PWA16. 
 

So suffice to say I’ve spent more time with rivets than any sane man should. And knowing what rivets look like ( mostly countersunk flush headed ones btw.) ( a bit like raised panel lines) over representation of rivets upsets me ( insider riveting pun there bay)  

Edited December 1, 2020 by Marklo

[CedB]

10 hours ago, giemme said:

That's some proper scratch building, Ced!    

 

I have one of these myself, and experienced the same problem; make sure the blocking screw on top of the moving part is tight when you put it away. If not, these kind of verniers have a function that automatically switches them on even with the slightest displacement of said part. Never had that problem any more since I started doing that (oh, and get rid of the original batteries that came with it, they are rubbish)

 

HTH

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio - great tip on the Vernier, I shall tighten the knob (titter, snurf!)  

 

10 hours ago, Brandy said:

Nice job on the wing roots Ced, much better now. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed wheel assembly too, so far it's looking pretty good!

I'm glad I'm not the only one having a magic gauge that turns itself on (stop that sniggering at the back!). Thanks for the tip @giemme!

 

Ian

Thanks Ian - completed (almost) wheel assembly below!  

 

9 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Mine just refuses to turn on ever, so I have to read it manually:

 

Nice work!

 

Regards,

Adrian

8 hours ago, giemme said:

Try with a blowtorch ....     

 

Ciao

Giorgio, as always, has the solution!  

That looks like a proper engineer's tool - too hard for me!

 

9 hours ago, Marklo said:

I just never put mine back in it’s box; Its not untidiness it’s efficiency

 

 

8 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Nice leg scratching Ced - I've got a 1/200 747 that's been 'stalled' for years as I've lost the nose leg and need to make a new one - I shall learn from your example and get on with it. One day...

 

Keith

Thanks Keith  Rod and tube, there's your answer. Probably  

 

8 hours ago, perdu said:

Yeah right.

 

 

8 hours ago, perdu said:

 

The P1127 (Kestrel?) at Cosford has obviously been painted, fancy replicating this?

 

Complete with visible decal film?

 

I was hoping I had some better shots than this but this isn't even that good.

 

Not bad for the drift /slip/ wobble gauge in front of the driver's window though.

 

What do you think, keep searching dozens of set of pictures of visits to Cosford?

Thanks Bill  

Definitely painted then that one. The serial's also way ahead of the P1127s so I think it must be a 'production' Kestrel?

Ah, Frank's pointed us to the walk around below.

Thanks for the offer of the pics though.

 

8 hours ago, Marklo said:

And not a rivet head to be seen....

8 hours ago, perdu said:

Ah that's a thought...

Hawker's probably got that wrong then huh?

7 hours ago, giemme said:

Disagree: look at the canopy and windscreen frames...

 

   

 

Ciao

Rivets? You want rivets? Have a look at the walk around on Primeportal - plenty to count there!  

 

7 hours ago, perdu said:

Interesting view of the one at Brooklands, only because the evolution of the tailplanes from those in the kit is quite marked.

 

Still a pretty poor display of rivets though, whatever were they thinking?

Thanks Bill

I read somewhere during my research that the Kestrel had a bigger tail than the P1127s.

I'd been looking at the fin shape but I think you may have nailed it!

 

7 hours ago, perdu said:

Still not using Gator's Grip Thin Blend for those recalcitrant etchy bits Ced?

Ah, right, I have that… but I keep forgetting. I do use it on 'flat' PE but I've not tried it on tiny bits - yet!

 

2 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

There is a full walkaround available.

 

34 minutes ago, Julien said:

Thanks in part to my chief spotter, who makes an appearance in one picture!

Thanks both - I hadn't looked at that one.

Useful for Kestrel builders  

 

2 hours ago, Marklo said:

I stand slightly corrected  still, very few 

Only slightly Mark - see above!  

 

27 minutes ago, Marklo said:

Don’t get me started on rivets and the scale representation thereof. Let me just say that irl for many years I was the (ahem) expert on jt8D-200 high pressure compressor case repairs; which could have up to 600 rivets apiece, I even got sent to TWA on one occasion to explain exactly how our riveting was compliant with specification PWA16. 
 

So suffice to say I’ve spent more time with rivets than any sane man should. And knowing what rivets look like ( mostly countersunk flush headed ones btw.) ( a bit like raised panel lines) over representation of rivets upsets me ( insider riveting pun there bay)  

Ah, a real life rivet counter eh?  

 

 

Wheels scratched:

 

 

Nasty Airfix molding on the wheel rims which hardly show in real life.

Barely visible scissor link, just like the real thing.

Not sure why I bothered…

 

I think I'm almost getting there:

 

 

Thanks to anyone who noticed the top seam and didn't mention it.

It showed up in my close inspection.

Now rectified with Mr Dissolved Putty.

My pot is getting thick and the top was coated so I looked for thinners on Google.

Pointed me at BM (of course) where people suggested cellulose thinners (stinks!) or, wait for it, TET!

I tried it on the putty blobbed on the top seam and it works - smoothed it out a treat!

Thank you BM, and specifically Jonners, again  

 

 

[CedB]

I can't go to bed without sorting out the main leg / door / strut puzzle.

I decided the best thing to do was fix the leg, then sort out the door later.

 

Leg in:

 

 

I had to drill out the kit hole to 2.5mm to get that in.

My new chant? 'Please don't crack the seam'. Repeat.

 

How do I get it to the right length?

 

 

[Andwil]

I forget where I saw this tip first, but what I do with Harrier undercarriage is to square up and glue the nose and outriggers first, when they are set then I glue in the main undercarriage leg, sit the model on its wheels and adjust the length of the main gear so the wheels touch the ground (bench top) and leave it to set.  This ensures the model sits true on all four points.

 

HTH

 

AW

[philp]

My trip to Cosford back in 2013 had them still putting her together.

 

 

 

 

 

[philp]

There was also this one at the Fleet Air Arm Museum - Yeovilton.

 

 

 

 

[Marklo]

8 hours ago, CedB said:

Ah, a real life rivet counter eh?

I’m afraid so.  

[CedB]

9 hours ago, Andwil said:

I forget where I saw this tip first, but what I do with Harrier undercarriage is to square up and glue the nose and outriggers first, when they are set then I glue in the main undercarriage leg, sit the model on its wheels and adjust the length of the main gear so the wheels touch the ground (bench top) and leave it to set.  This ensures the model sits true on all four points.

 

HTH

 

AW

Great tip, thanks AW  

 

Phil those are great pictures - perhaps @Julien might add them to the walkaround section if you're both willing?

 

47 minutes ago, Marklo said:

I’m afraid so.  

 

 

Tried a fit on the puzzle this morning. Looks like the door is too long:

 

 

The rod will get cut off when I know how long it should be.

The 'real' door is rectangular whereas the kit has its tongue poking out.

Perhaps that needs to be chopped off.

[perdu]

9 hours ago, Andwil said:

I forget where I saw this tip first, but what I do with Harrier undercarriage is to square up and glue the nose and outriggers first, when they are set then I glue in the main undercarriage leg, sit the model on its wheels and adjust the length of the main gear so the wheels touch the ground (bench top) and leave it to set.  This ensures the model sits true on all four points.

 

HTH

 

AW

That is what I always do with Harrier but Ced will NOT NEED TO do this as he is modelling her landing which will need the main leg to dangle lower than the outriggers.

 

I hope he has remembered that.

 

Just saying

 

Ced?

[perdu]

Oh yes the door needs to be at quite a sharp angle forward too.

If the kit door fits the fuselage when closed it just needs its lead angle adjusting.

[Dave Swindell]

12 hours ago, Marklo said:

over representation of rivets upsets me ( insider riveting pun there bay)

OK, no need to chuck your dolly out of the pram!  

[davecov]

Here are some photos I took of XP831 at the Science Museum in 2007. Unfortunately, my camera flash failed and some pictures never came out. These did though and a couple show good detail of the main undercarriage:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

 

[CedB]

3 hours ago, perdu said:

That is what I always do with Harrier but Ced will NOT NEED TO do this as he is modelling her landing which will need the main leg to dangle lower than the outriggers.

 

I hope he has remembered that.

 

Just saying

 

Ced?

3 hours ago, perdu said:

Oh yes the door needs to be at quite a sharp angle forward too.

If the kit door fits the fuselage when closed it just needs its lead angle adjusting.

Thanks Bill

Er, no I didn't remember - rats.

I may decide this is good enough for the cabinet but I'll wait until the outriggers are on before cursing too much…

 

1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

OK, no need to chuck your dolly out of the pram!  

 

40 minutes ago, davecov said:

Here are some photos I took of XP831 at the Science Museum in 2007. Unfortunately, my camera flash failed and some pictures never came out. These did though and a couple show good detail of the main undercarriage:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave - great pictures

The forth one particularly - it shows that the door hinges away from the fuselage. Hmmm.

 

 

I've applied some dark aluminium to various bits and gunmetal to the rear nozzles and heat guard:

 

 

Doesn't show there really.

Front 'cold' nozzles painted too.

 

Outriggers pasted:

 

 

Getting close.

I'm going to leave it for a while as we just popped into town to pick up some special cheese for Xmas.

Driving in Bath makes me cross now, even more than before the madness.

The council have taken the opportunity to strangle the traffic even more and the sight of cyclists pedalling down one-way streets the wrong way and NOT using the cycle paths makes me want to… get cross.

I need to calm down.

[Marklo]

1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

OK, no need to chuck your dolly out of the pram!  

Yes but sometimes it’s fun to get my soapbox out.  
 

So the second set of photos is rivets everywhere; Think of poor @CedB having to represent those in 1/72  ( I think this is why I mostly do stick and string) Just goes to show it’s good to have specific references for the subject you’re modelling.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Marklo

[perdu]

Great pictures Dave ta, saving those if it's OK.

The rivet pictures show how flushly they are fitted, beautiful work as so often on prototypes.

 

CedB pictures.

 

Look at pictures of your target please.

Kestrels landing have long main legs and basically short outriggers that hardly shorten on landing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

11 hours ago, Marklo said:

Yes but sometimes it’s fun to get my soapbox out.  
 

So the second set of photos is rivets everywhere; Think of poor @CedB having to represent those in 1/72  ( I think this is why I mostly do stick and string) Just goes to show it’s good to have specific references for the subject you’re modelling.

It does indeed Mark - references are a great guide…

Then you ignore them and say 'restoration'!  

 

9 hours ago, perdu said:

Great pictures Dave ta, saving those if it's OK.

The rivet pictures show how flushly they are fitted, beautiful work as so often on prototypes.

 

CedB pictures.

 

Look at pictures of your target please.

Kestrels landing have long main legs and basically short outriggers that hardly shorten on landing.

Thanks Bill  

Still confused about Kestrel and P1127 prototypes but hey, it's fun, isn't it?

 

How does this look?

 

 

Shiny and weird. Hopefully a wash will sort it out.

 

The outriggers got their noses sanded and dotted with 'bulbs':

 

 

Lenses were added with one of the many glass-like concoctions I have, this time a new addition, 'Liquid Glass':

 

 

Nice to apply and seems to be lens shaped, but we'll see in the morning.

[ColinChipmunkfan]

Hi Ced, following your resurrection of the old Airfix kit with great interest.  Have your seen this colour film from the early 60's of the Tripartite squadron,  Buckets of nostalgia.

 

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, ColinChipmunkfan said:

Have your seen this colour film from the early 60's of the Tripartite squadron, 

Check out all that yellowed carrier film on the decals!!!!

[CedB]

Great video, thanks Colin  

I didn't know about the Tripartite squadron but that explains the weird tail flash on my 'hover and side' picture.

Great stuff, thanks.

It also explains why my 'want to fly' list excluded Harriers - I hate camping!

 

Thanks Dave  Your comment has prompted me to take the transfers out of the window. Before (Nov 3rd) and after:

 

 

 

Should be OK, with careful handling?

 

The Liquid Glass cleared well:

 

 

…but it's shrunk, so I've put another blob on in the hope of getting the point (see what I did there?).

 

I also have a solution to the angle of the door dangle, prompted by Dave's picture:

 

 

When you're drilling the holes for the wire with a tiny drill, be careful it doesn't slip and stab your thumb.

Please ignore any blood in the pictures  

[giemme]

5 minutes ago, CedB said:

When you're drilling the holes for the wire with a tiny drill, be careful it doesn't slip and stab your thumb.

Been there, done that   And not only with hand held drill, but also with an electrically operated one... OUCH!

 

Ciao