1/72 Sukhoi "SU21F" Flagon

[rafalbert]

Hi guys,

 

I have had this one a long time so it is probably about time I built it. It is obviously a SU-15TM, Pioneer (and PM) getting the designator wrong in accordance with mistakes made in NATO reporting. I have no idea how accurate the kit is and it looks pretty crude but it is a Flagon which is good enough for me. I have a set of Begemot decals which should improve things a little.

 

Dave

 

 

[Col.]

Delighted to see another Soviet subject getting attention here  Although I can't comment on its accuracy I'm sure others amongst us can and perhaps suggest some simple fixes if needed.

[Aardvark]

4 hours ago, rafalbert said:

It is obviously a SU-15TM, Pioneer (and PM) getting the designator wrong in accordance with mistakes made in NATO reporting

There is an opinion that the Su-21 should be called an attack aircraft Sukhoi T-58Sh:

based on the Su-15 .... but this is not certain! 😁

Some modelers even made a model of such a Su-21:

http://alternathistory.com/alternativnye-shturmoviki-su-21-sssr/

 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[PeterB]

I have what I think is a Trumpeter version, but I cannot match the details up with any of the Flagons on Scalemates. Anyway, it looks quite good and the only problem I had was making sure I mounted the inner missiles correctly. The position of the pylons is just in front of the main wheel well and according to my Midland Book the inner pylons were used for short range R-60 missiles, (Aphid) but the kit provided either the much larger R-8 (Anab) missile or more likely the improved R-98 version for all 4 pylons. These are perhaps too long for the inner pylons and can overlap the wheel doors if you are not careful!

 

Pete

[Aardvark]

27 minutes ago, PeterB said:

 but the kit provided either the much larger R-8 (Anab) missile or more likely the improved R-98 version for all 4 pylons. 

Pete it's unrealistic, Trumpeter wrong:

http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/16.Shema-variantov-podveski-vooruzhenij-Su-15TM.-589x600.png

...but who knows, Su-15 have made surprises:

http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2.Su-15TM-s-podveshennymi-UPK-23-250-i-blokami-UB-32.jpg

 

http://nacekomie.ru/forum/files/201204/15021_78fcdde68ba63f7b639c81c79a2bf789.jpg

 

B.R.

Serge 

 

 

[Col.]

7 hours ago, Aardvark said:

There is an opinion that the Su-21 should be called an attack aircraft Sukhoi T-58Sh:

based on the Su-15 .... but this is not certain! 😁

Some modelers even made a model of such a Su-21:

http://alternathistory.com/alternativnye-shturmoviki-su-21-sssr/

 

B.R.

Serge

That looks a fun use for a cheap Su-15 and MiG-27 kit  

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, Col. said:

That looks a fun use for a cheap Su-15 and MiG-27 kit  

Yeah....MiG-27, especially in modification MiG-27K has always been the object of envy and lust in the Sukhoi Design Bureau!

😉😁

They reached the level of the MiG-27K in the fixed wing Su-17M5 .... which was made only on paper....

 

B.R.

Serge

[PeterB]

Actually,

 

I suspect mine was either Pioneer or PM after all - not sure why I thought it was Trumpeter. I will have to did out a couple of spare Acrids! Presumable one Anab would be IR homing and one radar I will have to check as I seem to remember they had a standard pattern as to which type went on which pylon eg IR on left  Radar on right.

 

Pete

[exdraken]

22 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Yeah....MiG-27, especially in modification MiG-27K has always been the object of envy and lust in the Sukhoi Design Bureau!

😉😁

They reached the level of the MiG-27K in the fixed wing Su-17M5 .... which was made only on paper....

 

B.R.

Serge

They finally succeded with a platypus in the form of the Su-34

 

great subject and discussion by the way!

[Aardvark]

6 hours ago, exdraken said:

They finally succeded with a platypus in the form of the Su-34

And yes and no .... oddly enough, the Su-34 is worse than the Su-24 in its ability to make a long flight near the ground in the terrain bend mode.  In principle, even the chief pilot of the MiG V. Menitsky mentioned that the Sukhoi Design Bureau considered not McDonnell Douglas or Lockheed but the Mikoyan Design Bureau as their main competitor, and made every effort to destroy it .... in principle, they actually succeeded.

6 hours ago, exdraken said:

great subject and discussion by the way!

😁

"You talk as if there is something bad in it!"(с)*😁

 

B.R.

Serge 

 

___________

* - Russian modern ironic expression, popular meme in friendly discussion, often logically contradicts the previous statement, as an example:

"- but he's an idiot!

- You talk as if there is something bad in it!" 

😁

 

[exdraken]

On 11/7/2020 at 4:23 PM, Aardvark said:

 

"You talk as if there is something bad in it!"(с)*😁

 

B.R.

Serge 

 

___________

* - Russian modern ironic expression, popular meme in friendly discussion, often logically contradicts the previous statement, as an example:

"- but he's an idiot!

- You talk as if there is something bad in it!" 

😁

 

It is a discussion forum, no?

 

if unclear, I am delighted to read about new (for me at least) aspects of the more obscure aviation areas!

the F-16 is quite well know in comparison,..

 

but he is an idiot, you know?

 

 

[rafalbert]

Well, I have made a start. The kit is (not unexpectedly) crude to say the least, but since I have decided to build it from the box, I have assembled the fuselage. The seam needs a LOT of attention despite my fettling but at least it is taking shape. At the moment the front end reminds me of a Mig-25, but I guess they were designed for similar jobs after all!

 

 

[rafalbert]

After a break following the completion of the Tornados and Christmas I am back on with the Flagon. First job was working in the intakes; PM have decided to engrave the warning markings rather than supply decals bizarrely:

 

These have duly been filled (along with the the holes) as the excellent Begemot sheet has included the correct markings along with stencil data. The fit of the kit overall is not great and I am having to use liberal amounts of filler, but as this was expected I am actually enjoying the challenge. I will am planning to give it a coat of primer at each stage to make sure I have sorted out each problem area which I am hoping will address the rough surface issue.

 

 

[RidgeRunner]

I'm looking forward to this one :). What a might beast the Flagon was!

 

Martin

 

 

[Col.]

Good to see this one taking shape and that you're enjoying its challenges  

[rafalbert]

It has taken a while to blend in the wings to the fuselage due to there being a large step on the belly (the lower wings and belly are moulded as one part). They now look to be flush but I need to fill the joint lines and rescribe. With hindsight it would have been easier to trim the fuselage prior to fitting the wings rather than sanding them flush 🤦🏼‍♂️!

 

 

[rafalbert]

Finally got to the stage where I could apply the aluminium only to find that I have failed to address a couple of sink marks effectively and not done a decent job fairing in the intakes 🤦🏼‍♂️. I am going to live with them as they are. The radome and the tip of the tail will be painted green and the anti glare panels black, all to be done within the next few days.

 

 

[Col.]

The sink marks don't look obvious in the photos so think you'll get away with them  

[rafalbert]

Now the Phantom is finished I have been cracking on with the Flagon. I was originally planning to leave the panels all one tone of aluminium but changed my mind; mistake! I have attempted to go for some variation but it looks terrible, so have left it to just a couple of panels on the wings. I will start applying the decals over the weekend.

 

 

[rafalbert]

All decals now applied, and the Begemot sheet is a little more detailed than the one supplied with the kit (see photo). The stencils took a while to apply but they definitely add a bit more interest to the aluminium finish. I was going to live with the jagged edge on the anti glare panels on the intakes but found that I can't, so will address them and give it a satin coat. After that I just need to add the missiles and undercarriage and it is done.

 

 

[Col.]

While the kit may be a basic one you're scrubbing it up well. Looking good  

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

This appears to be the same kit I built a good few years back and I presume it still comes with 4 x R8 aka AA-3 or maybe the improved R98 AA-3A Anab missiles (the difference is mostly internal), two IR and two passive radar? I build mine with all 4 as per the instructions though it was apparent that the inboard ones would have got in the way of the undercarriage, which seemed strange at the time, though it did fit the usual Soviet pattern of carrying both types of seeker head to cover all options.

 

You probably know this already, but unfortunately, I have since learned that for the Su-15TM that is incorrect - the inner pylons actually seem to have carried either one or two R60 aka AA-8 Aphids on either  PU 1 single rails or, less commonly PU 2 double rails. Being much shorter the AA-8 did not get in the way of the u/c! My sources indicate that the outer pylons carried a pair of AA-3/3A, usually the latter, normally both IR or both Radar rather than a mix. As the AA-8 covers the IR function albeit with a much shorter range, the Anabs would usually have been radar I suspect.

 

Hope that helps, but entirely up to you how you arm your plane - I have drawings and pics of both the missiles and mountings if needed.

 

Your build looks good and having a replacement sheet with stencils clearly improves the appearance.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[rafalbert]

Well, the undercarriage and missile rails were on, missiles just about to be added then somehow I managed to get the nose probe stuck on my sleeve and catapulted the whole thing across the room. The damage could have been a lot worse but I am walking away tonight.

 

 

[rafalbert]

Ok, slapdash repairs completed and the project is done. Thank you for that Pete, I did some research and found this:

 

http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/16.Shema-variantov-podveski-vooruzhenij-Su-15TM.-589x600.png

 

As a result, I managed to source some AA8s from an old Airfix Mig-29 which have duly been attached to the inner pylons.

 

This was a crude kit (and crudely built by me) of quite a crude, brutal looking interceptor which looks awesome with it. I have long ago realised that I have neither the skills nor the patience to produce beautiful models so as long as they look ok on my shelf I am happy. This was actually good fun to build (apart from the crash landing) and I have learned that I need a hell of a lot of practice if I am going to get a good finish on metallic tone variation. The Begemot decals were excellent and I would have no hesitation in recommending them and buying other sets for other projects. Anyway, here she is:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dansk]

3 hours ago, rafalbert said:

 

 

 

Looks great to me! Very nice.

I love the shot above. Looks like it’s flying through space 😁