Mig-23 MLD air-to-air configuration Afghanistan

[28ZComeback]

Can anyone point me to a resource or provide information on a typical Flogger Air-to-air missile configuration for escort duties near Pakistan boxer in the Afghanistan war?  I have read that it was aphids underbelly with Apex inner pylon. Thank you. 

[exdraken]

2 hours ago, 28ZComeback said:

Can anyone point me to a resource or provide information on a typical Flogger Air-to-air missile configuration for escort duties near Pakistan boxer in the Afghanistan war?  I have read that it was aphids underbelly with Apex inner pylon. Thank you. 

Sounds about right! Not too many alternatives, no?

I'd go with a pair of  R-24s, a radar and a IR guided variant. And a pair or max 4 R-60s in the belly pylons

 

A bit of info here, and photos

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.topwar.ru/21611-istrebiteli-mig-23-v-afganistane.html

[RAGATIGER]

Hi there

 

Well the practical solution is to use the KP MiG-23 MLD in wonderful 1/72 scale but sadly is OOP not a bad kit my only comment is that missing not only any kind of weaponly but also some simple mechanism to made its wings moveable

 

https://www.super-hobby.es/products/MiG-23MLD-Afgan-Warrior.html

 

Best regards

 

Armando

[SC2015]

12 hours ago, RAGATIGER said:

Hi there

 

Well the practical solution is to use the KP MiG-23 MLD in wonderful 1/72 scale but sadly is OOP not a bad kit my only comment is that missing not only any kind of weaponly but also some simple mechanism to made its wings moveable

 

https://www.super-hobby.es/products/MiG-23MLD-Afgan-Warrior.html

 

Best regards

 

Armando

According to my sources the sharkmouth was added after Afghanistan for aircrafts used in the Aerial Combat School

[Aardvark]

On 11/2/2020 at 7:30 PM, 28ZComeback said:

Can anyone point me to a resource or provide information on a typical Flogger Air-to-air missile configuration for escort duties near Pakistan boxer in the Afghanistan war?  I have read that it was aphids underbelly with Apex inner pylon. Thank you. 

 

"When working in border areas, a pair or a MiG-23MLD unit with a PTB-800 was sent without fail.  The fighters carried two R-24R and two R-60 missiles, combining weapons for long-range and short-range maneuverable combat.  In addition to missiles, a full ammunition load for the gun was mandatory.  Covering was carried out by the method of screening in the air with watch in zones on the most probable directions of enemy attack.  The search for the air enemy was conducted independently with the help of a heat direction finder and a radar sight, since the areas of operation were usually shaded by mountains from the observation radars of air bases.  This autonomous technique has been nicknamed "my own AWACS"."

From article:

"Fighter MiG-23 in Afghanistan"

https://topwar.ru/21611-istrebiteli-mig-23-v-afganistane.html

6 hours ago, SC2015 said:

According to my sources the sharkmouth was added after Afghanistan for aircrafts used in the Aerial Combat School

Yeah....😁

The method of applying "graffiti" to the MiG's, Afghanistan, Bagram:

http://uploads.ru/3iTKE.jpg

 

http://uploads.ru/h9cRz.jpg

 

photo from most detailed topic about MiG-23MLD 120 IAP:

 

http://zabmodels.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=464

 

B.w. about these sharkmouth  MiG, can tell in more detail@GROWLER

who is an expert on the thematic.

 

@SC2015, just don't get confused

sharkmouth

MiG-23MLD from 120 IAP:

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_14.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_15.jpg

 

with sharkmouth MiG-23MLD Center Combat Training in Mary airbase

(Soviet Aggressor):

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_34.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_34_b1.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_35.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_35_b1.jpg

 

It's different sharkmouth's, and it's different 

squadron's!

😉

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[SC2015]

1 hour ago, Aardvark said:

 

"When working in border areas, a pair or a MiG-23MLD unit with a PTB-800 was sent without fail.  The fighters carried two R-24R and two R-60 missiles, combining weapons for long-range and short-range maneuverable combat.  In addition to missiles, a full ammunition load for the gun was mandatory.  Covering was carried out by the method of screening in the air with watch in zones on the most probable directions of enemy attack.  The search for the air enemy was conducted independently with the help of a heat direction finder and a radar sight, since the areas of operation were usually shaded by mountains from the observation radars of air bases.  This autonomous technique has been nicknamed "my own AWACS"."

From article:

"Fighter MiG-23 in Afghanistan"

https://topwar.ru/21611-istrebiteli-mig-23-v-afganistane.html

Yeah....😁

The method of applying "graffiti" to the MiG's, Afghanistan, Bagram:

http://uploads.ru/3iTKE.jpg

 

http://uploads.ru/h9cRz.jpg

 

photo from most detailed topic about MiG-23MLD 120 IAP:

 

http://zabmodels.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=464

 

B.w. about these sharkmouth  MiG, can tell in more detail@GROWLER

who is an expert on the thematic.

 

@SC2015, just don't get confused

sharkmouth

MiG-23MLD from 120 IAP:

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_14.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_15.jpg

 

with sharkmouth MiG-23MLD Center Combat Training in Mary airbase

(Soviet Aggressor):

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_34.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_34_b1.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_35.jpg

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/37/pics/1_35_b1.jpg

 

It's different sharkmouth's, and it's different 

squadron's!

😉

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Thanks, for the pictures. Not sure about the text as I am not fluid in russian......

 

What happened to the Mig-23 that shot the PAF F-16 down? Has it been scrapped?

[28ZComeback]

Serge thank you very much!!  Aardvark many thanks!  Thank you all for our generous response! 

Edited November 3, 2020 by 28ZComeback

[Aardvark]

13 hours ago, SC2015 said:

Not sure about the text as I am not fluid in russian......

All ways have Google translate, on 85% it's correct work.

13 hours ago, SC2015 said:

What happened to the Mig-23 that shot the PAF F-16 down? 

MiG-23 shot down F-16? It's mysterious stories. I'm afraid we'll never know what really happened.

Officially, the USSR considered two versions:

- F-16 shot down its own second F-16; 

- The F-16 jumped forward and was hit by a MiG-23 bomb .... a 100 kilogram bomb was enough for him to destroy it just like blanks, even without an explosion.

Unofficially, also was versions, about the fact that when the MiGs dived at the target, the F-16 simply due to its mistake slipped forward, hitting the MiG-23 sight ... the pilot who simply pulled the trigger and then the GSh-23 gun did its job. Since the pilots of the MiG-23 always had a full gun ammunition and always used the gun when attacking ground targets, it is not possible to determine who fired at the airfield by ammunition consumption.

The probable hero was silent in order to avoid possible troubles, because everyone remembered when the command had forbidden to shoot down the F-16, despite the fact that he was already in a stable capture of MiG-23 missiles ... this MiG-23MLD number 64 then received an emblem on the air intake F  -16 in the reticle gun sight  and a  vulture

with an R-60 missile sitting on the sight. The answer should be known to the Pakistanis, who stole the F-16 wreckage from Afghanistan to their own Pakistan. But in all cases, the answer is not beneficial to them ..... admit that he was shot down by his F-16?  Stupid and funny!  To admit that the F-16 itself ran into the cannon fire of the MiG-23?  Also a silly and funny situation!  To admit that the F-16 was accidentally shot down by a bomb?  This is generally a nomination for the Funny Curiosity of the Year award.

 

If you so want to have a MiG-23 officially shot down something, that is, a MiG-23 that shot down two Iranian helicopters ... there even the scheme of this attack got into Russian textbooks on air combat ... this MiG-23 has an emblem with a vulture

 holding a helicopter by the tail.

😉

 

13 hours ago, SC2015 said:

Has it been scrapped?

All MiG-23 MLD 120 IAP was scrapped, 😢@GROWLER live witness this because he was after cutting at the aircraft storage base.

Only the emblems were preserved, which were cut with circular saws together with the cladding panels.Now these panels with emblems are kept in the Squadron History Museum.

 

B.R.

Serge

[GROWLER]

Yes this is true ..  ((( They were cut after 2 days.

[Hook]

Great pictures!, sad to see them gone, but great pictures. 

 

Wasn't the MLD compatible with the R-73? It seems strange that these do not seem to be deployed, if I was a Soviet fighter pilot I would want to have every advantage against the PAF F-16A's and would not want to have to make do with the less capable R-60.

 

Edit: answered my own question!, I just browsed through my Yefim Gordon / Dimitriy Kommisarov MiG-23 volume, and on p.223 there's a shot of a Afghanistan deployed MLD with two R-73s and two R-24s.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited November 5, 2020 by Hook
Basic research

[Aardvark]

42 minutes ago, Hook said:

Wasn't the MLD compatible with the R-73?

Of course compatible like the MiG-23P

42 minutes ago, Hook said:

It seems strange that these do not seem to be deployed, if I was a Soviet fighter pilot I would want to have every advantage against the PAF F-16A's and would not want to have to make do with the less capable R-60.

Interesting moment. It is necessary for Alexey @GROWLER

to ask at his forum among those who were there. I think that the choice in the suspension did not always depend on the pilot, do not forget the R-73 was a missile  with a thrust vector, even if its debris fell into the hands of the United States and NATO, they would be very happy. Therefore, the ban on use was removed, the missile was loaded under the MiG-23MLD, before that it was in the warehouse, as I think. 

As for the advantage over the F-16, the MiG-23MLD already had it thanks to the R-24, because there was no medium-range missile in the F-16 arsenal at that time. In addition, the MiG-23MLD had a IRST, which the F-16 did not have.  The characteristics of the radar and vertical / horizontal maneuverability were also at the level of the F-16, and its accelerating characteristics even surpassed the F-16. Therefore, the fact that the MiG-23MLD could not stand the F-16 was connected only with the administrative ban on hostilities, because at official levels it was stated everywhere that only goverment Afghan troops were fighting in Afghanistan against the mujahideen supported by the West, China and some Arab countries. Such a concept, as it is now clear, was erroneous, for which one should thank gorbachev and  co., as well as his follow-up, one should thank for this:

42 minutes ago, Hook said:

sad to see them gone,

Because as it was said in one literary work: "Devastation begins in the heads"

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Aardvark

[GROWLER]

Uncle Serge, there is no one there to answer this question.There are no participants in the events already .. We cannot even restore reliably the color of 64 boards! 

[Aardvark]

7 hours ago, GROWLER said:

Uncle Serge, there is no one there to answer this question.There are no participants in the events already ..

Alexei stopэ, as I read here:

http://zabmodels.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=464&p=2#p8063

Monday, February 26, 2018  10:07:29
 Bertych
 Administrator

 Posts: 2672
" The day before yesterday I talked to Valera Maksimenko"  in there was an opportunity to talk with Valery Maksimenko, as I understand he is a technician of the MiG-23MLD, he must remember when used R-73 .....or do You want to say ..... ????  

 

Sorry if the my question is stupid and tactless ...

7 hours ago, GROWLER said:

We cannot even restore reliably the color of 64 boards! 

Considering how many have been repainted, it will be a miracle if you's restore all of its color options.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[TheyJammedKenny!]

@GROWLER: Thanks for all the photos!  That is some really original artwork.  Were these aircraft destroyed to comply with the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe during the Treaty's "reduction" implementation phase? That would make sense, but it would have been nice to keep a few for the museums, too.

[TheyJammedKenny!]

Serge: thanks for the explanation, as Transbaikal is outside the Zone of Application for the CFE Treaty.  My understanding from that period is that the VVS simply wanted to reduce the number of different aircraft types in service as a cost-savings measure, a valid reason.  The U.S. has similar constraints, which is why (for example) the USAF has repeatedly asked that the A-10 be withdrawn from service to make room for the F-35, but the A-10 has had significant support in Congress, which is one reason the remaining fleet has been re-winged.

[GROWLER]

On 06.11.2020 at 03:27, Aardvark said:

.....or do You want to say ..... ????  

 

 

No, everything is ok. There are problems of a slightly different nature)). I searched for it at the time but could not find it. But the guys found it. In principle, if you ask a question there, directly, I think you can get some kind of result. Although I have already said about the coloring)))

On 06.11.2020 at 18:50, TheyJammedKenny! said:

@GROWLER: Thanks for all the photos!  That is some really original artwork.  Were these aircraft destroyed to comply with the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe during the Treaty's "reduction" implementation phase? That would make sense, but it would have been nice to keep a few for the museums, too.

Don't be grateful! )) The only thing that can be seen in the photo is the color matching. Very good color rendering.
Regarding the destruction: Yes, it is a pity that it was the participants in the events that were destroyed. And somewhere the present monuments were simply painted "highly likely". And we must face the truth, the equipment was already quite old, and the MiG-29s had been in operation for a long time. In this country, no one can afford a flying Lightning, or even more so a Vulcan))) And those who may, be preoccupied with filling their pockets, and not preserving history.
In other matters, as I looked above, Sergey has already explained to you clearly enough ..)))
Like this.

Edited November 8, 2020 by GROWLER

[GROWLER]

I will say more - there was no money (and no) even for destruction))))

[Aardvark]

4 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

My understanding from that period is that the VVS simply wanted to reduce the number of different aircraft types in service as a cost-savings measure, a valid reason.

Officially You right, the official explanation was rather idiotic - you need to destroy the fleet of single-engine aircraft, because twin-engine aircraft are more reliable ... but the truth is at the Le Bourget air show MiG-29 Kvochur officially (unofficially named other reasons) fell from the hit of ONE bird in ONE engine and the fact that  the MiG-29 had two engines, Kvochur did not help. But under this pretext, the fighter-bomber aircraft (all this MiG-27/Su-17) in the Air Force as a class was completely destroyed. This led to a decrease or complete cessation of state funding for defense orders at factories, which in turn ceased to produce products for the domestic market and for export, which led to the non-receipt of funds in the state budget, after which the state could no longer (and in our  case and reluctant!) to allocate money to factories.  It turned out to be a vicious circle, which led to the bankruptcy of many enterprises of the aviation industry, followed by an outflow of personnel and the subsequent degradation of the design school. As examples, in fact modern RF don't design and made VTOL aircraft, because Samara aircraft factory where the Yak-38 and Yak-141 were made, destroyed as well as actually destroyed by the Yakovlev Design Bureau. E.t.c., e.t.c., e.t.c.

Naturally it's results economic "reforms" carried out by "young" reformers in government under the strict guidance of foreign advisers.

As I wrote, this is a long and long topic, which goes beyond the fate of the MiG-23MLD.

4 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

The U.S. has similar constraints, which is why (for example) the USAF has repeatedly asked that the A-10 be withdrawn from service to make room for the F-35, but the A-10 has had significant support in Congress, which is one reason the remaining fleet has been re-winged.

This is a slightly different thematic.  As far as I understand, being left without a geopolitical rival in the form of the USSR with an almost completely controlled post-Soviet space, it would be logical to save some money by reducing the amount of weapons, labor and R&D, but a mistake was made, China was not taken into account in the calculations.  As a result, we have what we have.

3 hours ago, GROWLER said:

No, everything is ok. There are problems of a slightly different nature)). I searched for it at the time but could not find it. But the guys found it. In principle, if you ask a question there, directly, I think you can get some kind of result. 

1.The fact that everything is fine with him is wonderful.

2. Are you trying to lure me to your's Trans-Baikal forum ?!

Alexey, you are a very cunning person! 😁😁😁 I'm afraid not everyone there will like my opinion on non-aviation thematic.

2 hours ago, GROWLER said:

I will say more - there was no money (and no) even for destruction))))

You know, in the third reich, the family of an executed anti-fascist or underground fighter received a bill for the execution, which included the costs of the executioner, soap and rope, and so on ...based on your posting, to some extent they even overtook the third reich, because you have to come to the execution of the plane with your own soap and rope ... and with your own executioner ... the evil humor turned out ...

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited November 8, 2020 by Aardvark

[exdraken]

the demise of the Soviet State and consequently its airforce is definitly a very interesting topic, lots of rather shocking details still to be uncovered or made widely awailable I guess.

 

but then as an outsider, it seems that exactly something like this happens if you run out of money before your main opponent and try to only cover the absolutely most needed... I imagine the focus was on safeguarding the much more critical nuclear arms ... at least it seems those were not made available to others, not willfully and fortunately also not by accident! thanks to all involved we all were spared from this for at least the last 30 years

 

 

[Aardvark]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:55 PM, exdraken said:

but then as an outsider, it seems that exactly something like this happens if you run out of money before your main opponent and try to only cover the absolutely most needed... I imagine the focus was on safeguarding the much more critical nuclear arms ... at least it seems those were not made available to others, not willfully and fortunately also not by accident!

In North Korea, Cuba, by definition, there was no money, nevertheless, for some reason they not only did not fall apart and did not capitulate, but also developed their military-industrial potential ... therefore, it is not about money. By the way, the main reasons for the deterioration of the financial situation in the USSR include the anti-alcohol campaign, which led to a lack of revenue in the budget and the creation of cooperatives that brought money out of legal circulation into the shadow economic sector, both decisions were made by directive in 1985 and 1987, respectively; by 1989, a shortage of products began and the purchasing power of the ruble began to decline while the money supply increased, i.e.  actually inflation. As You can see, these internal reasons for the weakening of the economy are artificially created.

 

But about combat potencial

MiG-23 from CIA! View from USSR stolen CIA! 😁😁

It should be noted here that the military potential of Soviet aircraft in the course of computer modeling by Soviet military analysts was estimated on the basis of real data, and the military potential of Western aircraft was assessed on the basis of advertising data. The curiosity of this approach is evidenced by the fact that the military potential of the F-14 was estimated higher than the F-15 !!! 😁😁😁

By the way, in the 1975 edition of the Aviation of the Capitalist States I have, the publication that belonged to some pilot on the village of F-15A was manually attributed under wing bombs ... which the combatant F-15A / C never carried ... but in the USSR in  it was believed and included in the assessment of the combat potential!

Nevertheless, even with these parameters, the MiG-23M corresponded with JA-37, F-4E, Mirage F.1 and F-111A ...but in reality military potential MiG-23MLD was more higher than MiG-23M.

 

B.R.

Serge 

[28ZComeback]

Thank you very much