Belgian WW2 Spitfire, which kit and decals?

[coolingthunder]

Hi all,

 

I am looking to build Joseph "Jeff" Moureau's Spitfire, preferably in 1/48 or larger.

 

After some sleuthing I have managed to find following information:

 

The plane he flew on D-Day and shot down a german Ju-88 with, was a Spitfire LF IX Mk.153 of the 349 squadron (which still exists today in the BAF!), Code GE-S.

 

Could anybody point me in the direction for a kit that depicts this plane and does anybody know where and if decals of this plane exist?

 

If not, is there maybe a manufacturer that does sheets of the code letters and such, or anybody who might be able to help? 

 

Thanks!

[Giorgio N]

I can't remember any kit or decal sheet for that particular aircraft, while at the same time I can remember several decals for the later Mk.XIV in 349 Sqn. Service (particularly TB900 GE-D)

In general one option would be to buy a kit in the preferred scale and then use a set of generic code letters to make your own. There are such sheets from a number of sources, for example Fantasy Printshop. The serial number may be a bit more tricky but being in black you can print your own easily (or get someone to print it for you). This assuming that this aircraft did not carry any specific marking.

Another alternative for the codes would be to have somone cutting masks for you, In 1/48 scale and larger it is a good solution. You would have to provide information on the size and shape of the codes of course but it is very doable

 

A bit more difficult would be to reproduce the aircraft as she was during D-Day, as codes may have been modfied or repainted in various ways to make room for the invasion stripes. Best way to know is finding a picture, even just one of any aircraft in the same unit around the same time, the style would have been similar.

 

Best kit is simple: Eduard in 1/48 and Tamiya in 1/32

Edited October 30, 2020 by Giorgio N

[coolingthunder]

I have found most of what I need in regards to what she looked like on the Facebook page of the current 349 sqn, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

With regards to the Eduard kit, is it Spitfire LF Mk. IXc 1/48, number 84151? 

 

[alt-92]

MK series would be the Aerovee larger airfilters, so Eduard's IXc Late would do the trick.

You can get generic 8" serial number sheets, code letters as well (MSG).

 

as an aside, Daco are supposed to release some Spit-specific decal sets soon:

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/spitfire-mkix-mkxiv--mkxvi-roundels--sqn-insignia-belgian-air-force-d4870-daco-products-d4870-aircraft-scale-modelling-decals/product/?action=prodinfo&art=173008

[MACALAIN]

Shyart have made some decals for the 350 Sq, but I don't remember for 349 Sq

 

Best regard

 

Alain

[coolingthunder]

Hmm seems the Shyart is sold out unfortunately...

 

Would have been perfect, as their sheets contained all letters, I could have just used the GE-S and used the serials to recreate the serial...

 

 

How would I go about making own? Or is there somebody who would be able to help me with that here? 😁

[Troy Smith]

55 minutes ago, coolingthunder said:

How would I go about making own?

There are sheets of generic code letters.   Problem is they are just that, generic, and there are lots of small variations in RAF code letters. There was no "font"  (see image below) note the 3 styles here of G and S, for example.

 

You need to work out the size, though some Belgian modellers probably already know this, we have a few here, @corsaircorp  is one who springs to mind.

 

A common size for Spitfire for codes was 20 inch high, and from August 1941, these would be Sky. 

 

You maybe lucky and a generic set will be close enough.

Xtradecal do 24 and 30 inch in 1/48th.

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48023

 

If they are 20 inch high, note that they do a 72nd set  which are Sky code letters 18" , 24" , 30"

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72189

 

But a 30 inch code in 72nd is 20 inch high code in 1/48th  

 

Problem might be, this is an image of the sheet

 

 

the 30 inch are much more limited in letter style,  

 

If you don't know how big the codes are, the standard RAF roundel used on 1944 Spitfire is 36 inch, so you can use that to judge size.

 

If this is not a clear enough explanation,  please ask for clarification.  

 

Finally, if you have access to the technology to do it, work from a photo, and you can then in a computer graphics program trace the letters, and these can be then adjusted with further work be used to make a stencil if you have access to a mask cutter. 

 

HTH

T

[coolingthunder]

http://img1.pictaero.com/2019/06/28/s/301922.jpg

 

This how a current Spitfire here in Belgium has been done.

 

I'd guess 30 inch? 

 

Thanks for the very clear explanation! 

I am more than proficient with computers, I just don't have any experience working with Illustrator/Photoshop, and no access to a mask cutter anyway.

 

I did think about printing my own decals on an inkjet printer but I seem to have found differing opinions on how good they work, and, as I said before, no experience with graphic programs. Unfortunately I'm not the most creative of types anyway 😅

 

 

I have found the Hannants/Xtradecal sheets, but can't find a shop nearby that stocks them online, and the shipping rates for a decal sheet are absolutely outrageous from them... 

[alt-92]

53 minutes ago, coolingthunder said:

I have found the Hannants/Xtradecal sheets, but can't find a shop nearby that stocks them online, and the shipping rates for a decal sheet are absolutely outrageous from them... 

Maybe not your original intent, but both Hannant's and AviationMegaStore do have a big backcatalogue of add-ons and detailing parts (also from other kits).
Sometimes it pays off to plan a bit ahead and see if you can combine several items to alleviate the shipping costs.
Hannant's do send via Royal Mail for around 9-12€ depending on the order (mine are usually 4 to 6 items for around 50). If that order does not have bulky items like complete kits, it is doable.

AMS is about the same and do UPS courier.

[corsaircorp]

On 10/30/2020 at 12:15 PM, coolingthunder said:

Hi all,

 

I am looking to build Joseph "Jeff" Moureau's Spitfire, preferably in 1/48 or larger.

 

After some sleuthing I have managed to find following information:

 

The plane he flew on D-Day and shot down a german Ju-88 with, was a Spitfire LF IX Mk.153 of the 349 squadron (which still exists today in the BAF!), Code GE-S.

 

Could anybody point me in the direction for a kit that depicts this plane and does anybody know where and if decals of this plane exist?

 

If not, is there maybe a manufacturer that does sheets of the code letters and such, or anybody who might be able to help? 

 

Thanks!

Hello CT,

If I may help, PM me, I have belgian roundels that can possibly help.

Throy is right, generic decal sheet are helpfull, I use it frequently.

PM me, I can send it to you,

Great project !!

To me the best choice is the 1/48 Eduard Spitfire Mk IX, 

Keep carry on !!

Sincerely.

CC

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, coolingthunder said:

This how a current Spitfire here in Belgium has been done.

 

I'd guess 30 inch? 

Hmm,  warbirds are not to be trusted,  the linked pic has very funny D-Day stripes.   There were stripes like this, but only in RAF 10 group squadrons.

Is there a wartime photo of GE-S? 

 

I see the @corsaircorp has posted,  and offered help,  so that may sort out you problems.

 

cheers

T

 

PS I just put 

"Joseph "Jeff" Moureau Spitfire MK153 349 squadron" into google

http://inmyworld-mehdi.blogspot.com/2012/03/another-spitfire-pilot-has-left-us.html

 

about Alfred Morueau (brother?) 

 

note image of MK175,  which shows the code order on the starboard side (there was no specified order, it could, and did vary)

 

another page on this blog

 

http://inmyworld-mehdi.blogspot.com/2012/03/

 

has this

 

 

which shows the codes well,  by eye, 30 inch

 

A google of 349 Sq Spitfire ha turned up more images.   

 

Note, the Eduard Dual combo IX/XVI kit in 72nd had a 349 Sq option

http://www.hyperscale.com/2017/reviews/kits/eduard2117reviewmd_1.htm

 

 

https://www.kleinebrogelairbase.be/index.php/en/flying-group/349-squadron?i=SpecialPaint-349-Air-7

 

has images of a F-16 marked as GE-S, with a Spitfire marked as the same on the fin

 

 

so there maybe a photo of GE-S MK153 out there? 

[Graham Boak]

Troy, what's your objection to the stripes?  They look like the ones common from July 1944, where they were removed from upper surfaces.  Also, why were 10 Group any different?

[Troy Smith]

6 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Troy, what's your objection to the stripes?  They look like the ones common from July 1944, where they were removed from upper surfaces.

they look narrow.

The plane they are on, is a lo back, so that's wrong

plus no Sky band.   More a caution on warbirds as a reference

6 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

 

  Also, why were 10 Group any different?

10 group were noted for using 12 inch stripes, as opposed to the 18 inch specified, which are narrower than the warbird photo, whcih I think has the stripes in the wrong place.

seen on Mk.VII's

 

and MK.XII

 

I think there are others.

[coolingthunder]

Looks like I opened quite the can of worms here! 

 

I was indeed planning on basing myself on the spitfire drawing on the tail of the F-16, and the drawing 349 has up on Facebook (as I assume especially the painting on the F-16 would have been referenced with the archives they presumably keep somewhere?)

 

@corsaircorp, I will be PM'ing you! thanks already!

 

P.S.: thanks all for your helpful and valuable input! I do aprreciate it a lot!

Edited November 1, 2020 by coolingthunder