Fnick Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 How about Jim Lovell's "please be informed there is a Santa Claus"? Better?🎅 Saint Nick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 Where to begin! Long story short...1 seal coat (Mr Super Clear Matt) and 4 coats of primer (Mr Surfacer 1500 in a 50/50 ratio with Mr Colour Leveling Thinners) later...still the same result!!! I did not take pics as I was so frustrated/disappointed...again! Whilst outside having a smoke...and holding the rear wing in my hand...a neighbor wandered over...asked what I was holding...so...we got chatting...and I explained all the crap I was having with the two wings. "How about I put them through my ultra sonic cleaner"...so...having nothing to lose I handed them over...and off he went. 45 minutes later...he handed me back 2 'frosted' wings! He told me to give them another sanding...then give them back to him for another run through the US cleaner...and 25 minutes after handing them to him...following a thorough sanding...I got the two wings back. In my rush to get them primed...I forgot to take a pic but...the only way to describe how they looked is a pure white/frosted finish all over. Not wanting to waste another load of the 1500 surfacer...I used my cheap rattle can stuff...which has always worked in the past...and the result............ Obviously...this is only the first stage (primer)...and adds a little pressure in hoping the silver goes down equally well...but I feel I now have a fighting chance Will leave them for 36 hours before thinking about applying a metal shade. Ron to be continued....... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Good news Ron looks very promising indeed 👍. Doesn't matter how you get there mate as long as you end up with the results you're looking for....chuffed for you mate 😉👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Andy J said: Good news Ron looks very promising indeed 👍. Doesn't matter how you get there mate as long as you end up with the results you're looking for....chuffed for you mate 😉👍 Very true mate Thanks for advice and input 👍 Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Great news mate, hope it all progresses well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, kpnuts said: Great news mate, hope it all progresses well Cheers mate...stage two awaits eh! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) Sprayed two coats of base silver this morning...a couple of very minor imperfections...but...fortunately...in areas that will not be visible..... Once the paint has fully hardened (24 hours)...I will tidy up the separating lines between the upper and lower sections of the rear wing...then it's stage 3...the 'C1 Metalizer'. to be continued....... Edited July 24, 2021 by silver911 added text 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fnick Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Good save! Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjfk2002 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 What an ordeal. I am glad you got it sorted out. Who knew the Tamiya de-chroming process would be so involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Great to see problem solved, now stop procrastinating and get on with it. (Only joking, take your time,,, but hurry up) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Indeed great that you found a way to solve the problem. Hadn't thought about using a ultrasonic cleaner, but it clearly works well. Can you ask your neighbour what kind of fluid he uses in his ultrasonic cleaner ? Sincerely Pascal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 I knew I had heard of a similar problem, but it was a long time ago. Finally I remembered : About 30 years ago, I worked at a factory that made plastic faceted mirrors (used in motion-detection devices, the dectection beam "looks" into those mirrors to scan for movement) that were chromed or aluminized at another factory. I remember that after a few months we received a call from that other company, telling us that all workers had to wear gloves when handling the plastic mirrors (before they were chromed). They told us that some regulation stopped them from using a chemical that they used in the chroming process. Before that, fingerprints and things like dust were not a problem. But because they had to change the chemical, any contamination on the plastic was a NO GO. If your plastic wings were chromed before 1993, it's very possible that a same kind of chemical was used by Tamiya in the chroming process. What that chemical does is basically "eat" any grease and dirt, and it produces an ideal surface for the chrome to stick to, by leaving a sort of "film" or coating on the plastic. When that chemical was used on plastic, it was nearly impossible to remove it (at least in 1993) because no matter what they did the chemical kept sweating through any coating put on the plastic. A lot of cleaning products (like bleach) reacted with the chemical, and basically ruined the plastic surface for later treatment. Sincerely Pascal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 23 hours ago, Fnick said: Good save! Nick 22 hours ago, rjfk2002 said: What an ordeal. I am glad you got it sorted out. Who knew the Tamiya de-chroming process would be so involved. 21 hours ago, kpnuts said: Great to see problem solved, now stop procrastinating and get on with it. (Only joking, take your time,,, but hurry up) Many thanks guys 👍...really appreciate all the support Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 12 hours ago, Pascal said: Indeed great that you found a way to solve the problem. Hadn't thought about using a ultrasonic cleaner, but it clearly works well. Can you ask your neighbour what kind of fluid he uses in his ultrasonic cleaner ? Sincerely Pascal Sent you a PM with links Pascal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Pascal said: I knew I had heard of a similar problem, but it was a long time ago. Finally I remembered : About 30 years ago, I worked at a factory that made plastic faceted mirrors (used in motion-detection devices, the dectection beam "looks" into those mirrors to scan for movement) that were chromed or aluminized at another factory. I remember that after a few months we received a call from that other company, telling us that all workers had to wear gloves when handling the plastic mirrors (before they were chromed). They told us that some regulation stopped them from using a chemical that they used in the chroming process. Before that, fingerprints and things like dust were not a problem. But because they had to change the chemical, any contamination on the plastic was a NO GO. If your plastic wings were chromed before 1993, it's very possible that a same kind of chemical was used by Tamiya in the chroming process. What that chemical does is basically "eat" any grease and dirt, and it produces an ideal surface for the chrome to stick to, by leaving a sort of "film" or coating on the plastic. When that chemical was used on plastic, it was nearly impossible to remove it (at least in 1993) because no matter what they did the chemical kept sweating through any coating put on the plastic. A lot of cleaning products (like bleach) reacted with the chemical, and basically ruined the plastic surface for later treatment. Sincerely Pascal That is a very insightful and interesting story Pascal...and would certainly explain the issues I have had with the wings. This kit is an original release from 1976...so the timescale would also fit. Another point of note...later re-releases of their (Tamiya) kits...at least in my experience...did not have this kind of 'lacquered' coating after de-chroming...but were a 'frosted' whitish colour...which would accept glue and paint...unlike the hard yellow coating these were left with. Put into personal context...when I first began building the Tamiya range of 1/12 kits...I did not have the knowledge or experience I have now...so never needed/wanted to remove the chroming...thus avoiding any such issues which...in turn...were no longer present when building the much later re-releases...by which time my experience had grown...but said de-chroming was no longer throwing up this very problem. Much as this has been a very frustrating time for me...indeed...I had reached the point of abandoning this build...it has also been an enlightening one...and better still...has added to the knowledge base for those following this build...which is a real bonus for all of us. As an aside...I have the two chromed end plates for the front wing...which I am replacing with PE...so...I will drop them in some bleach...and get a pic of the yellow coating left behind...so that others can be aware of what to look for. My sincere thanks for posting this information Pascal...I and many others will benefit from it...now and in the future. Ron 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Pascal said: I knew I had heard of a similar problem, but it was a long time ago. Finally I remembered : When that chemical was used on plastic, it was nearly impossible to remove it (at least in 1993) because no matter what they did the chemical kept sweating through any coating put on the plastic. A lot of cleaning products (like bleach) reacted with the chemical, and basically ruined the plastic surface for later treatment. Sincerely Pascal A brilliant explanation of Ron's exact problem. Pascal, you are a most valuable resource for technical, hands-on information on this forum. I add my thanks and respect to Ron's. C 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 That's why this site is so good for all sorts of issues and info, great knowledge to call upon when needed, great job Pascal. Glad it will help with your issue Ron so we can see this fantastic project continue. Chris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Codger said: A brilliant explanation of Ron's exact problem. Pascal, you are a most valuable resource for technical, hands-on information on this forum. I add my thanks and respect to Ron's. C Couldn't agree more Mr C 16 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said: That's why this site is so good for all sorts of issues and info, great knowledge to call upon when needed, great job Pascal. Glad it will help with your issue Ron so we can see this fantastic project continue. Chris Spot on Chris...Pascal's insight has restored my faith in my instincts. And continue I shall mate 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 As mentioned in an earlier post...I had the two kit chromed end plates...which I don't need as I am using PE one's...so a 20 minute dip in bleach...and what you are left with is the gloss coating I had to sand off to be able to assemble and paint the wings..... As said...this stuff is a nightmare to get off...and...in doing so...ultimately gave me the problem I have shown. I honestly hope this whole episode is of benefit to others. Ron 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Those parts look to have a very dodgy finish Ron no wonder you had problems 🙄👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, silver911 said: As mentioned in an earlier post...I had the two kit chromed end plates...which I don't need as I am using PE one's...so a 20 minute dip in bleach...and what you are left with is the gloss coating I had to sand off to be able to assemble and paint the wings..... As said...this stuff is a nightmare to get off...and...in doing so...ultimately gave me the problem I have shown. I honestly hope this whole episode is of benefit to others. Ron Hi Ron This yellow foil on the plastic de-chromed parts is a kind of varnish, whose color vary from yellow to red, depending on the the brand of the kit. I'm used to remove the chrome from plastic parts of all my kits, Heller, Tamiya etc., and they all have this stuff. Personally, I sink all the de-chromed parts in a bath of "GLANZER" during a whole night, and then I remove this stuff easily with a toothbrush...it works well each time ! This product is ordinary used to remove all the protective layers on tiled floors particularly, and is based on concentrated ammoniac. In France, it's regularly used by modelers to strip paint and varnish from their kits. Hereunder a photograph of the "Glanzer" bottle: Hoping this might help 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 Thanks for the info mate Unfortunately...this is the only link to buying it I could find...sadly...way too expensive for my pocket......https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154544016677?hash=item23fb8a8d25:g:BycAAOSwvlhgZc0C Thanks Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, silver911 said: Thanks for the info mate Unfortunately...this is the only link to buying it I could find...sadly...way too expensive for my pocket......https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154544016677?hash=item23fb8a8d25:g:BycAAOSwvlhgZc0C Thanks Ron Waouhh ! In France it costs only 3 € in all supermarkets ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Hi again, Ron Here is a link to an identical or equivalent cheaper product: Emsal Friendly CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 Better item price at £5.18...but extortionate postage again at £13.95 !!! Appreciate your efforts...but think we should give up now 🤬🤣 Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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