silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, pg265 said: Hi Mates, Ron, you really should try the Gravity Colors primer!! Never seen something that thin and smooth! And it dries so fast!! I usually spay the primer, then the color less than 1 hour later, then Gloss (GC too) 1 or 2 hours later. I only use GC primer and cover it with ZP, Gunze, Humbrol… and used it on all surfaces with great results: styrene, resin, PE (brass, copper, steel) and all the metals including of course white metal! Never met issues with GC top coat, under or upon the decals, even the MFH Matt decals like the ones on the 413F1, Bug 35… Great job so far on the Red Beauty! pascal Hi Pascal...and thanks for recommendation of 'Gravity Colours'...problem is getting it over here...none of my usual suspects stock it ! My primary concern remains the same...in that the primer is being attacked from below by something in the plastic itself. Failing that...the Zero primer reacted with the plastic...and that reaction continued into the silver following it. Input is much appreciated. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, Malc2 said: OK, got it - sorry. I know Zero paint is very hard on some plastics, but surprised that the primer is too. I would try tamiya primer and tamiya top coat and leave for a couple of days or more between primer and top coat. Its hard when it keeps going wrong! Malc. Worth a shot Malc 19 minutes ago, kpnuts said: Hi Ron I can't remember the name of it but there is a barrier coat paint you can spray over enamel paint that allows you to spray cellulose paint on it with no ill effects, maybe that would work here. Without a name I don't know what I am looking for mate. Update me if you remember it please. 11 minutes ago, Six97s said: Depends on how much you cut it with alcohol - you can easily thin it enough to spray. Some people spray it as a sealer on guitars before the finish coats of lacquer. Never knew that...nice one for info. Would you know a rough dilution ratio for alcahol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six97s Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, silver911 said: Never knew that...nice one for info. Would you know a rough dilution ratio for alcahol? Not off the top of my head... Axminster Tools used to sell premixed Shellac sanding sealer, so you don't have to mess about dissolving it. That can be thinned further with meths... I'd just eyeball it and try a few test pieces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 It came from halfords mate I will see if I can find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 It's called halfords enamel primer over which you can spray anything 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planebuilder62 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Dear Ron Have you tried using conventional black gloss primer and Alclad Polished Aluminium for the wings? It worked a treat on my NF-104A last year in the planes RFI here on BM. Regards Toby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Planebuilder62 said: Dear Ron Have you tried using conventional black gloss primer and Alclad Polished Aluminium for the wings? It worked a treat on my NF-104A last year in the planes RFI here on BM. Regards Toby Hi Toby, many thanks for suggestion. Personally...I have never liked Alclad...far too fragile for my liking...especially with the amount of handling the wings will incur whilst assembling etc. Kindest regards Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 Just as an aside to the problems...the pics show the other parts I also primed...same level of sanding...same primer...no issues at all..... Makes it all the more confusing! Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 The wing mount and associated details look amazing, this model is going to be so convicing it will look real, which is what we are all striving for, but not all of us , including me, can achieve. You are a master modeller. Sorry to hear about the wing and hope you get sorted okay I was going to suggest Halfords Filler primer which is good for small scratches but if ghe plastic is attacking then will end up the same anyway. The barrier paint suggested above is a good one and used to be called Barcoat, I had to use it spraying a 1:1 scale car to save taking back to bare metal when respraying, this was many years ago now. Good luck I your quest with the rear wing. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg265 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hi Ron, You might also consider the Rubb’n’Buff as a great option. Stunning natural metal rendering and just need a clean and smooth surface! Pascal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) I think that the gloss/yellowish residue - leftover from the chrome removal - has (and still is) reacted with the bleach. This reaction causes the plastic to "sweat", and that gives you the result you see when you put on primer and the silver top coat. To stop the sweating of the plastic, I would try soaking the parts in brake fluid. Try it on a piece of chrome sprue first, the brake fluid should be able to remove the leftover residue and bleach from the chrome removal. Edited July 19, 2021 by Pascal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said: The wing mount and associated details look amazing, this model is going to be so convicing it will look real, which is what we are all striving for, but not all of us , including me, can achieve. You are a master modeller. Sorry to hear about the wing and hope you get sorted okay I was going to suggest Halfords Filler primer which is good for small scratches but if ghe plastic is attacking then will end up the same anyway. The barrier paint suggested above is a good one and used to be called Barcoat, I had to use it spraying a 1:1 scale car to save taking back to bare metal when respraying, this was many years ago now. Good luck I your quest with the rear wing. Chris Hi Chris...thanks for compliment and thoughts...will have a look at that Barcoat...nice one mate 1 hour ago, pg265 said: Hi Ron, You might also consider the Rubb’n’Buff as a great option. Stunning natural metal rendering and just need a clean and smooth surface! Pascal I did have some but can't find it...but still need to get primer issue sorted...appreciate suggestion 23 minutes ago, Pascal said: I think that the gloss/yellowish residue - leftover from the chrome removal - has (and still is) reacted with the bleach. This reaction causes the plastic to "sweat", and that gives you the result you see when you put on primer and the silver top coat. To stop the sweating of the plastic, I would try soaking the parts in brake fluid. Try it on a piece of chrome sprue first, the brake fluid should be able to remove the leftover residue and bleach from the chrome removal. Makes sense Pascal...and reinforces my thinking that the primer is being attacked from beneath...meaning the plastic is leaching something out...whether it's the bleach...or mold residue. On the off chance it's the bleach...a good wash in warm soapy water might do the trick. Thanks for input chaps Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hi Ron looking at your pic's regarding the wing issues reminds me of a one off incident I encountered with zero grey primer on the shell of a Tamiya Nissan GTR a while ago. 75% of the shell came out absolutely fine but the other 25% looked exactly like the problem with your wing. I did exactly what you have thus far with sanding etc but whatever I tried the zero primer always left the same results in the same areas of the shell. The answer well i re sprayed the whole shell with Mr Surfacer 1500 grey primer and the problem disappeared and that's when I switched from zero primer to Mr Surfacer and have had no such issues since. I've also stripped many chrome parts with bleach and applied Mr Surfacer primer with no reactions whatsoever. No guarantees Ron but I do think it would solve your problem 🙂👍 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 22 minutes ago, Andy J said: Hi Ron looking at your pic's regarding the wing issues reminds me of a one off incident I encountered with zero grey primer on the shell of a Tamiya Nissan GTR a while ago. 75% of the shell came out absolutely fine but the other 25% looked exactly like the problem with your wing. I did exactly what you have thus far with sanding etc but whatever I tried the zero primer always left the same results in the same areas of the shell. The answer well i re sprayed the whole shell with Mr Surfacer 1500 grey primer and the problem disappeared and that's when I switched from zero primer to Mr Surfacer and have had no such issues since. I've also stripped many chrome parts with bleach and applied Mr Surfacer primer with no reactions whatsoever. No guarantees Ron but I do think it would solve your problem 🙂👍 Hi mate...strangely enough...I just came across a jar of it I had forgotten I had...and I am inclined to agree with you regards the Zero...so Mr Surfacer 1500 it shall be. Also...since Pascal's comment earlier...I have scrubbed both wings in warm soapy water to kill any possible remaining bleach that was absorbed. I will also order some Mr Super Clear Matt come payday...somewhere in there is the solution. Cheers Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 No problem Ron and here's a few more tips I've learnt through experiments with the Mr Surfacer primer. First off the best thinner by a million miles is the famous Mr Hobby levelling thinner I wouldn't use anything else. You can control the smoothness of finish Ron by the amount of thinner you add. If you want a super smooth finish then mix it 60/40 thinner to paint. If like me you like to finish the surface yourself with 8000 or higher sand paper then 50/50 is bang on the money. If your concerned about the surface your spraying due to scratches etc then 60/40 paint to thinner will allow plenty of sanding to be applied without going through to the plastic. Anything above 60% levelling thinner is a risk to the plastic mate as I found out on a plastic spoon when test spraying i would say 65% is the max I would go. Apologies for the length of the comment above Ron but if anything contained helps you get rid of the current issue with the wing then it's worthwhile imo 😉 👍 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Andy J said: No problem Ron and here's a few more tips I've learnt through experiments with the Mr Surfacer primer. First off the best thinner by a million miles is the famous Mr Hobby levelling thinner I wouldn't use anything else. You can control the smoothness of finish Ron by the amount of thinner you add. If you want a super smooth finish then mix it 60/40 thinner to paint. If like me you like to finish the surface yourself with 8000 or higher sand paper then 50/50 is bang on the money. If your concerned about the surface your spraying due to scratches etc then 60/40 paint to thinner will allow plenty of sanding to be applied without going through to the plastic. Anything above 60% levelling thinner is a risk to the plastic mate as I found out on a plastic spoon when test spraying i would say 65% is the max I would go. Apologies for the length of the comment above Ron but if anything contained helps you get rid of the current issue with the wing then it's worthwhile imo 😉 👍 Never need to apologise for offering to help mate. I have the thinner as well Many thanks for ratio info...very useful. Cheers Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 Right...following Pascal's comment about possible remaining bleach in the plastic...from de-chroming...both wings have been scrubbed twice...with warm soapy water...a day apart. Strangely enough...they look whiter (frosted) in appearance now... I have now got the bits I ordered...and have given the wings a seal coat...which I will now leave for 24 hours...then give them a dusting of the Mr Surfacer...fingers crossed... to be continued....... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Jeez Ron this is quite nerve wracking...fingers crossed here too mate 🤞👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Fingers and toes crossed mate. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Its that bloody to be continued...I ain't sleeping tonight 😂👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Andy J said: Its that bloody to be continued...I ain't sleeping tonight 😂👍 Yes that's just mean 😄 Seriously, good luck with that what a difference to the colour of the rear wing bits after the scrubbing. Very interesting. As per the others, everything crossed for you. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Andy J said: Jeez Ron this is quite nerve wracking...fingers crossed here too mate 🤞👍 What wil be eh mate! 4 hours ago, kpnuts said: Fingers and toes crossed mate. And anything else that will cross mate 4 hours ago, Andy J said: Its that bloody to be continued...I ain't sleeping tonight 😂👍 Knowing me...I will be up in the wee small hours........... 2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Yes that's just mean 😄 Seriously, good luck with that what a difference to the colour of the rear wing bits after the scrubbing. Very interesting. As per the others, everything crossed for you. Chris I have to say...the difference in the colour after the second scrub with soapy water struck me as being a lot to do with left over bleach...as both I and Pascal reached the same conclusion. It's certainly something to remember for the future...more so...as this has never happened to me before. Cheers guys Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Meh I'm not worried at all this is gonna work out fine......I hope 🙏 🙄😬🤞👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Maybe you could set up a live feed Ron sort of like what they did for the moon landing except this is more important 🤔 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 So come on commander Ron status update please you must have cleared the dark side of the moon by now.....just please don't start your reply with Houston we have a problem 😬👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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