Pascal Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Epic, exquisite, perfect. For me, that about sums up the brilliant work you're doing to this kit. Can you give a reference for the carbon steel powder and the brass rivets ? Sincerely Pascal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, pg265 said: Hi, Awesome work on the rear end and rear wing! Simply awesome Ron! Pascal Many thanks for kind words Pascal...much appreciated...and pleased you like the result Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, Pascal said: Epic, exquisite, perfect. For me, that about sums up the brilliant work you're doing to this kit. Can you give a reference for the carbon steel powder and the brass rivets ? Sincerely Pascal Thank you Pascal For the powder...mine is very old...and can't find a link...however...this is another type I use.....https://www.hiroboy.com/C1_Metalizer_Metallizing_Buffing_Powder--product--5570.html Rivets came from Ebay.....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273822154060?var=573535498415 Hope this helps. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickframe Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Hi Ron, I'm certainly glad that you took the time to post your work in process - a pleasure to look at, and a terrific resource for "how to" . Your process for weathering etch parts is new to me, and quite effective. Really nice all around. Cheers Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 10:26 PM, Stickframe said: Hi Ron, I'm certainly glad that you took the time to post your work in process - a pleasure to look at, and a terrific resource for "how to" . Your process for weathering etch parts is new to me, and quite effective. Really nice all around. Cheers Nick I always enjoy working with effects on PE...when in their natural finish...they just look wrong to me. As far as the wings are concerned...I have had to go back to the drawing board...some very strange things were happening to the applied finishes...but more on that in the next update. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Superb work from the master, as usual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 4 hours ago, kpnuts said: Superb work from the master, as usual. Not sure you will still be thinking that after following update mate! But much appreciated Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) I am calling this update "A Tale of Two Wings"..... I received some nice comments and compliments on the rear wing in the last update...but...as with many things in modelling...there is always something waiting in the shadows to spoil things 😱 And so it was with both the front and rear wings for this beast. Mr C asked if I would get some pics in natural sunlight...to better show the metal effect...and the next day provided just such an opportunity to do so. First thing I noticed...the colour was darker...and also less reflective...with the second thing that struck me...there were several areas that looked decidedly...well...awful!..... Whilst pondering what was going on...I left the parts outside...and...two hours later...they were almost black!..... Although not shown...the front wing was equally as bad. To look at...the defects would at first appear to be very poor prep from sanding...however...in my defence...they were smooth to the touch...and showed none of these issues under a magnifying lens. Only one option...strip them back to the bare plastic..... I made sure to keep wiping them over with alcohol betwen each bout of sanding...to make sure the scratches were not still hiding under the dust. This time...instead of using rattle can primer...I went with 'Zero Primer Filler'...five coats in compass style (N S E W)...with a final overall coat...all looked good whilst drying...but...3 hours later..... "Their Back!".....🤬🤬🤬🥺 to be continued....... Edited July 18, 2021 by silver911 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Chapter 2..... Having put down a good few coats of the primer/filler...my first option was to give the wings a gentle sand with 800 grit sponges. This seemed to do the trick...so...nothing ventured nothing gained...I went ahead and gave them four coats of silver..... But...two hours later..... Right...my theory is this... When you de-chrome Tamiya parts...you are left with a glossy/yellowish finish...this...in my previous experience...refuses to accept glue or paint...so needs sanding down...to provide a 'key' for these to take to. I believe that...in doing this...the surface has become 'micro porous'...that is to say...it has opened up lots of tiny imperfections in the base plastic. Not only that but...my instincts tell me...the plastic is 'leaching' something...which is attacking the primer and paint from below! If any members have suffered similar issues...and have a solution...please feel free to tell me Ron to be continued....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 And this is where I stand as of this morning...both wings stripped back and a re-sand done..... My plan is to order some Mr Hobby Matte Varnish and give both wings a good dusting with it. My reasoning being...the plastic needs sealing before a re-prime...hopefully that will do the trick...but...open to other suggestions?....... Ron to be continued....... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) One thing that seems to have gone right...the PE fittings and plates etc. Also...I have to re-scribe the dividing line on the main body of the rear wing...it wasn't in quite the right place...so I took the opportunity to fill it in. to be continued....... Edited July 20, 2021 by silver911 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 What about Pledge/Future as a barrier on the stripped plastic? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Codger said: What about Pledge/Future as a barrier on the stripped plastic? I had also considered 'Klear' as an option Mr C. My main concern is it's longevity under lacquers...also...I am sick of stripping back and sanding now...with the ever present risk of opening up more defects...that...and inadvertently altering the profile of the parts. I for one have never come across this particular problem in 45 years of modelling...just proves there is always something to learn. Cheers for thoughts Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 The only time I havehad this kind of reaction is when I have not left enough time between primer and colour coats. My normal build rate (slow) usually makes this a non issue, but I have found that there has to be at least 3 or 4 days between primer and top coats. It also depends how hot the top coat is, if very hot then mist coats a day apart before the final wet coat is best. M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Malc2 said: The only time I havehad this kind of reaction is when I have not left enough time between primer and colour coats. My normal build rate (slow) usually makes this a non issue, but I have found that there has to be at least 3 or 4 days between primer and top coats. It also depends how hot the top coat is, if very hot then mist coats a day apart before the final wet coat is best. M. Trouble is Malc...as per the pic I posted earlier...the primer went down ok when applied...it was 3 hours later that the defects began to appear...no top coat had been applied! This is my reasoning for suggesting the primer is being attacked from below...i.e. the plastic itself. I understand what your saying about how 'hot' a top coat can be...but...being as I use a lacquer (Zero) primer/filler...and leave for 24 hours minimum...an acrylic or enamel top coat would not usually be considered 'hot'...but correct me if I am wrong. Your thoughts are much appreciated mate Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Ah, I am confused, I was looking at the pictures in the post headed 'Chapter 2' above where both wings appear to have a top coat of silver showing the paint reaction through the silver? But you say above this reaction was evident before the silver went down? Could well be I am confused as I have half an eye on the British GP at the same time! Will Lewis win? 5 laps to go! Malc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six97s Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Shellac? Sticks to anything and is used as a barrier in other finishes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, Malc2 said: Ah, I am confused, I was looking at the pictures in the post headed 'Chapter 2' above where both wings appear to have a top coat of silver showing the paint reaction through the silver? But you say above this reaction was evident before the silver went down? Could well be I am confused as I have half an eye on the British GP at the same time! Will Lewis win? 5 laps to go! Malc. Hi mate If you look at the last pic directly above 'Chapter2'...and read the below explanation...you will see that I sanded the primer smooth...so decided to spray the silver next day...which didn't at first look to bad...but...then 3 hours later (see pics). Probably my bad lay out of story Malc. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fnick Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 As thin cement glue works (as I understand it) by melting the plastic is it worth applying a very thin coat over the whole surface in the hope that it might close the pores?🤔 Might be be worth testing on a scrap piece first though. If it does work maybe a super light sanding to smooth things out again? Ot that could just be a really bad idea...😮 Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, Six97s said: Shellac? Sticks to anything and is used as a barrier in other finishes. Thanks for suggestion mate...however...my experience with shellac many years ago was it's a heavy bodied varnish...much like yacht varnish. I really need something I can airbrush. Thanks for the idea...much appreciated. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Fnick said: As thin cement glue works (as I understand it) by melting the plastic is it worth applying a very thin coat over the whole surface in the hope that it might close the pores?🤔 Might be be worth testing on a scrap piece first though. If it does work maybe a super light sanding to smooth things out again? Ot that could just be a really bad idea...😮 Nick Hi Nick...not such a stupid idea...in fact...a technique I often use after filling a gap...it blends the filler into the plastic nicely. In this particular instance...I am a bit loath to spread it over the wings as such...simply in case it goes badly wrong...which...given the current state of affairs...is highly likely. Cheers Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg265 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) Hi Mates, Ron, you really should try the Gravity Colors primer!! Never seen something that thin and smooth! And it dries so fast!! I usually spay the primer, then the color less than 1 hour later, then Gloss (GC too) 1 or 2 hours later. I only use GC primer and cover it with ZP, Gunze, Humbrol… and used it on all surfaces with great results: styrene, resin, PE (brass, copper, steel) and all the metals including of course white metal! Never met issues with GC top coat, under or upon the decals, even the MFH Matt decals like the ones on the 312F1, Bug 35… Thin and strong! Great job so far on the Red Beauty! pascal Edited July 18, 2021 by pg265 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc2 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 OK, got it - sorry. I know Zero paint is very hard on some plastics, but surprised that the primer is too. I would try tamiya primer and tamiya top coat and leave for a couple of days or more between primer and top coat. Its hard when it keeps going wrong! Malc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnuts Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hi Ron I can't remember the name of it but there is a barrier coat paint you can spray over enamel paint that allows you to spray cellulose paint on it with no ill effects, maybe that would work here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six97s Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 37 minutes ago, silver911 said: Thanks for suggestion mate...however...my experience with shellac many years ago was it's a heavy bodied varnish...much like yacht varnish. I really need something I can airbrush. Thanks for the idea...much appreciated. Ron Depends on how much you cut it with alcohol - you can easily thin it enough to spray. Some people spray it as a sealer on guitars before the finish coats of lacquer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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