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Need help for MPM 1/72 Hudson cockpit.


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I'm building this but the instructions are a bit vague to me.   In particular I need to find out the correct position etc of the following parts....

 

A6, A36 plus A33 and where exactly they fit onto A3 (A6 and A36 don't seem to fit on to A3 like the instructions show).  

A31 and how it fits on to A35

A27  ,,     ,,      ,,     on to A17

A30   ,,     ,,      ,,    ,,     A11

 

I know the instructions seem clear in 'some' ways but after test fitting they don't seem quite right to me.

 

plus where exactly......

 

A22, A28 and A20 fit on to the main fuselage A1.  The instructions there are a bit clearer but again I'd still like to check.   I can't find any decent photo's of the MPM cockpit on Google.

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Be warned (if you haven't been already) that this kit is notorious for having poor fit, particularly the fuselage halves and the engine nacelles.  So much so that even experienced magazine reviewers mentioned it, not just the usual gripers about Eastern European kits.  So careful preparation will pay dividends.

 

It was also reboxed by Italeri, but as the P&W variant for which the cowlings were too large.

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I built an MPM Hudson recently and had difficulty with the fuselage windows -  so much so that I've abandonned the build for now! The fit into the apertures was variable (mostly the windows were too large) and, since they were without a flange on the inside, it was very difficult to get them aligned properly. Once they were installed, even slight difference in allignment meant the light reflections were all over the place - sounds trivial but very noticable and annoying! Furthermore, without a backing flange, there was nothing to which to apply the glue, which spread onto the clear parts. I even experimented with some of the tightly fitting ones by not applying glue at all - worked fine, but when applying the paint, it bled round the edges and onto the clear surface again. Doh!

All in all, I remember with pleasure building the Airfix one without any trouble, for all its limitations,
I hope this might help you to avoid the errors I made, and not put you off.

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Did you try smearing one of the PVA-based products such as Clearfix or Krystal Klear (sp?) into the surround?  This would at least solve most of the problems with glue marking the transparencies, if not  the alignment.  For this I have considered a strip of sellotape down the inside whilst the glue hardens, but am not exactly convinced.  As I recall from my original Airfix Hudson, the  nose windows attached easily but were far from a snug fit.  I have another but intend doing it as a Model 14, with the spare tailplane provided in the MPM Lodestar kit and possibly spare Cyclones from an MPM tooling - not so sure about that offhand.  A better top turret is provided in the Revell Halifax, and if you are using it anyway don't worry, there is a spare.

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Not wanting to hi-jack @SeaVenom's post, but yes, I tried KK , but when I came to mask the windows, a little pressure on the mask loosened the window and threatened to push it inside. Arrgghh! The styrene glue and the 'interference' fit (tight with no glue) were safe from falling inside.

If I was doing it again, I'd fix a sheet of thin clear acetate inside the fuselage behind the window area and fit the windows from the outside on to this with KK. I've no idea if this would work 🤔, but until I can find a solution to keep windows level and parallel, I won't be able to tackle another kit with this type of individual window.

I was/am building a civil 'ball-bearing run' version without the turret. Incidently, the fit of the panel replacing the turret was terrible.

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13 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Be warned (if you haven't been already) that this kit is notorious for having poor fit, particularly the fuselage halves and the engine nacelles.  So much so that even experienced magazine reviewers mentioned it, not just the usual gripers about Eastern European kits.  So careful preparation will pay dividends.

 

It was also reboxed by Italeri, but as the P&W variant for which the cowlings were too large.

 

Yes I've seen a few reviews saying about the fit but nice to know beforehand.   Didn't know Italeri had reboxed it though.

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13 hours ago, alancmlaird said:

I built an MPM Hudson recently and had difficulty with the fuselage windows -  so much so that I've abandonned the build for now! The fit into the apertures was variable (mostly the windows were too large) and, since they were without a flange on the inside, it was very difficult to get them aligned properly. Once they were installed, even slight difference in allignment meant the light reflections were all over the place - sounds trivial but very noticable and annoying! Furthermore, without a backing flange, there was nothing to which to apply the glue, which spread onto the clear parts. I even experimented with some of the tightly fitting ones by not applying glue at all - worked fine, but when applying the paint, it bled round the edges and onto the clear surface again. Doh!

All in all, I remember with pleasure building the Airfix one without any trouble, for all its limitations,
I hope this might help you to avoid the errors I made, and not put you off.

 

 

Yes the windows are very tricky.   Incredibly though I managed to fit them all without getting hardly any glue on them.   I scraped the window apertures slightly beforehand, held the windows with a piece of blutac and run a very slight amount of glue with a blunted cocktail stick around all the edges then around the apertures...... then carefully pushed the windows in with the blutac.   There's a slight amount of glue around each window but I scraped that off after leaving the glue dry for about 20 minutes or so (so it was drier and didn't smudge the windows).   Only 1 or 2 windows have a small bit of glue on them which I'll see if I can polish off with toothpaste.

 

As for the reflections I see exactly what you mean but now they're all in and I somehow managed  to get them fairly straight I can't say the slight variations in reflection bother me.   

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The MPM version of the Hudson seemed to me to have a, set of instructions that were written for a kit of the Hudson that was slightly different to the plastic in the box as if the designer of the plastic lived in Lyras version of Prague and the instruction writer lived in our version of Prague. I found the kit made up of vague fits and poor fitting parts. It can be made to work. Here is mine from earlier this year

 

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Yours turned out nice anyway.  

 

I'm still unsure though if parts A30 and A27 are supposed to be glued on to parts A11 and A17 the way it shows in both sets of instructions.  In the instructions it shows that parts A27 and A30 glue on to the solid surfaces of A17 and A11...... but A31 glues on to the open edges of part A35.   

 

Anyone know if those 2 parts (A30 and A27) should really be glued on to the open ends of parts A11 and A17 instead?   It seems a bit odd to me that the ends of those 2 parts remain open.   Hope that makes sense.  Again I can't find any decent interior photo's of Hudsons.   They mainly show the dash.

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There are some slightly different pics of the cockpit here https://www.number59squadron.com/hudson.html

 

There was a cutaway in Air International but I'm away from my copies and don't appear to have scanned it, maybe someone can track it down for you - it was helpful for my stalled build of the Airfix kit although I still made a slight error with the Radio Ops position - how do I know that? Must be another reference somewhere but my memory doesn't hold it, sorry.

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Ah, my list of Hudson references, sadly out of date but still valid (I'm sure there's a Warpaint). http://hrmtech.com/SIG/res_l.asp

 

Also, in case it helps anyone tackling it, my review of the Airfix kit from the last millenium (sorry, don't know what's happened to the photos). http://hrmtech.com/SIG/articles/airfix_hudson_72_review.asp

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I fitted my windows by holding them in place with masking tape inside then gluing them with varnish spread all over the glazing. I left it to dry for a few days then sanded everything flush with 400 grit then worked my way up the grits to 4000. Then a quick rub with a cloth. 

 

Clear smooth windows.

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On 29/10/2020 at 04:06, SeaVenom said:

Anyone know if those 2 parts (A30 and A27) should really be glued on to the open ends of parts A11 and A17 instead?   It seems a bit odd to me that the ends of those 2 parts remain open.   Hope that makes sense.  Again I can't find any decent interior photo's of Hudsons.   They mainly show the dash.

I've found these images if they are of any help:

Source: http://jproc.ca/ve3fab/aircraft_radio_ops.html

 

If the rear of the units can be seen through a fuselage window, I'd glue them so that the solid side shows thorugh the window.

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8 hours ago, rossm said:

There are some slightly different pics of the cockpit here https://www.number59squadron.com/hudson.html

 

There was a cutaway in Air International but I'm away from my copies and don't appear to have scanned it, maybe someone can track it down for you - it was helpful for my stalled build of the Airfix kit although I still made a slight error with the Radio Ops position - how do I know that? Must be another reference somewhere but my memory doesn't hold it, sorry.

Thanks for that.  It's amazing how little interior reference is out there on the web though.

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1 hour ago, WhitleyZ6743 said:

I've found these images if they are of any help:

Source: http://jproc.ca/ve3fab/aircraft_radio_ops.html

 

If the rear of the units can be seen through a fuselage window, I'd glue them so that the solid side shows thorugh the window.

 

 

Thanks.   Looking at those pics they don't seem to resemble much of what MPM's provided.

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I'm temporarily back at base, preparing for the house move. I'm sure I should have a cutaway drawing somewhere but my index doesn't reveal where. The best I can do is a photo of my attempt at the Airfix kit which was done with it and photos in the Profile. Even then the radios aren't right so some rework is needed.

 

http://hrmtech.com/SIG/images/DSC01956.jpg

 

I've had to put the link as my browser won't let me insert the image from a site that doesn't use https, not even my own site!

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Found this online from The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft magazine Issue 11

 

91mNIbLJslL.jpg

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On 10/27/2020 at 11:29 AM, SeaVenom said:

A6, A36 plus A33 and where exactly they fit onto A3 (A6 and A36 don't seem to fit on to A3 like the instructions show).  

A31 and how it fits on to A35

A27  ,,     ,,      ,,     on to A17

A30   ,,     ,,      ,,    ,,     A11

I've just built this - 

As others have said it's a PITA to build.

 

For fitting A33 - fit A44 to A3 first - there's a ridge on the lower side of A44 that will locate against the edge of A3.  A33 now fits into the jaw of A44 with the tab resting on A3.  I kept knocking this off as there is very little gluing surface.

A6 fits on top of A36 which in turn fits on to A3 straddling A44 and A33.  You may find it easier to leave this until much later in the build.

Here's mine - 50363202328_d0797eb26c_b.jpg

 

 

As for the others, this photo of mine may make it clearer

2020-05-17-17-06-11-004

I must 'process' the RFI photos of mine and put them up.

 

Cheers

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On 10/29/2020 at 4:06 AM, SeaVenom said:

Yours turned out nice anyway.  

 

I'm still unsure though if parts A30 and A27 are supposed to be glued on to parts A11 and A17 the way it shows in both sets of instructions.  In the instructions it shows that parts A27 and A30 glue on to the solid surfaces of A17 and A11...... but A31 glues on to the open edges of part A35.   

 

Anyone know if those 2 parts (A30 and A27) should really be glued on to the open ends of parts A11 and A17 instead?   It seems a bit odd to me that the ends of those 2 parts remain open.   Hope that makes sense.  Again I can't find any decent interior photo's of Hudsons.   They mainly show the dash.

The instructions are correct - the parts are inconsistent.  Have you seen the photos of the Hudsons on IWM? https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=hudson&pageSize=30&media-records=records-with-media&style=list&filters[webCategory][Photographs]=on&filters[periodString][Second+World+War]=on

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I'm currently wrestling with the Revell boxing of this kit at the moment, and I'm approaching the fuselage windows with some trepidation. As I'm a careless and lazy kit assembler(!), I don't fancy all the shenanigans described above to get a

satisfactory result. I've been considering leaving the glazing out until after completing the build and then using KristallKlear to glaze the windows. I've used KristallKlear to glaze aircraft before, but these windows are a bit bigger than any I've

done before using this method.

Has anyone tried this on this kit? If so, was it successful? Were the results satisfactory? (bearing in mind I have low standards, and I'm easily pleased!!)

 

I found a photo in my copy of Aircraft of the Fighting Powers (vol.1) showing an in-flight view of a turretless Hudson with the turret position faired over, finished in what appears (B & W photo!) to be standard DG+DE camo, but I can't make

out the underside colour. It should be aluminium/silver, but some of these were delivered with Night undersides. The machine in the photo carries A1 roundels in the usual six positions, and no fin flashes. RAF aircraft with Night undersides

shouldn't have had roundels under the wings, but I believe (can't remember where I read it!) that some Hudsons were delivered with undersides in Night with A1 roundels under the wings. If I can determine the finish of the aircraft in that photo,

I'll model that machine with no squadron codes, no legible serial etc.

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4 hours ago, Fifer54 said:

I've been considering leaving the glazing out until after completing the build and then using KristallKlear to glaze the windows. I've used KristallKlear to glaze aircraft before, but these windows are a bit bigger than any I've done before using this method.  Has anyone tried this on this kit? If so, was it successful? Were the results satisfactory? (bearing in mind I have low standards, and I'm easily pleased!!)

Haven't tried it with those particular windows on that particular kit but I don't reckon your chances of getting KK to skin over such large areas, let alone look decent when dry, are good.  I've not been happy with the results on windows smaller than those.  And the cabin windows are such a feature of the Hudson.  And NB some of the nose windows are compound curves, which KK just can't cope with.

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3 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Haven't tried it with those particular windows on that particular kit but I don't reckon your chances of getting KK to skin over such large areas, let alone look decent when dry, are good.  I've not been happy with the results on windows smaller than those.  And the cabin windows are such a feature of the Hudson.  And NB some of the nose windows are compound curves, which KK just can't cope with.

Thank you, Seahawk. I was thinking along those lines myself, but I don't fancy all the faffing about resizing all the windows and trying to glue them in to look good. I think I'll have a go with KK before I assemble any more, just to try it out and see what the results look like. If it works to my satisfaction, I'll go with it. If not, then I'll think again. There's a crazy idea floating around in my head about gluing the windows behind the apertures and filling them out to be flush with the surface using KK. Sounds crazy, but you never know  . . .

The nose windows actually won't be an issue, Revell/MPM provide the entire nose section in transparent plastic, so the nose windows are a matter of masking.

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