Sukhoi Su-22 Turbojet engine ?

[Zorglub]

Hi,

 

I hope I'm in the right section, since Su-22 has a long period of service, if it's not in the good place, please move-it.

 

So, I have a question about the Su-22 turbojet engine, I'm lost:

 

I find different versions about the turbojet engine, and I can't figure out what's true anymore.

 

On one hand I read that the Su-22 was equipped for export with Turmansky R29.B, but on the other hand I read that the Su-22 was equipped with Ljulka AL-21F-3.

 

The Su-22 MK would have been the first to have the Turmansky, but...

I have different information: I read that the Su-17 for export was renamed Su-22 ( that's ok ) and was equipped with "Mig 23 turbojet engines"...  Mig 23 which had Turmansky then Lyulka...

 

So, did the Su-22s follow the evolution of the Mig 23s for the turbojet engine, so that would explain these differences?
It would mean that the Su-22 had several models of turbojet engine according to the year of production, or according to the purchasing country?

For exemple: a late or earlier Polish Sukhoi 22 M4 would have which one ?

 

Thank you

 

 

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Giorgio N]

The Su-22 had its own evolution: the Su-22M3 and older have the Tumanski R.29, the Su-22M4 has the AL-21. Your Polish M4 will have the AL-21.

The different engines result in a different shape of the rear fuselage and a different configuration of the various intakes in this area. If you compare the M4 with an M3 you'll easily see what I mean

[Zorglub]

Thank you!

This clearly explains the data I found.

It's good not to be left with guesses anymore.

 

By the way, please, could you tell me which 1/72 kit would be the most accurate to take into account these elements at this scale?

[exdraken]

Modelsvit does the best Fitter by far...

All polish swing wing Fitters have the Al-21 engine and respective rear fuselage.

 

[exdraken]

2 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Modelsvit does the best Fitter by far...

Not sure if there is an M4 already though....

 

All polish swing wing Fitters have the Al-21 engine and respective rear fuselage.

 

 

[Zorglub]

7 minutes ago, exdraken said:

  5 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Modelsvit does the best Fitter by far...

Not sure if there is an M4 already though....

 

All polish swing wing Fitters have the Al-21 engine and respective rear fuselage.

 

 

Thank you!

I guess they far away from the Italeri.

But did Modelsvit produce a Su-22 M4 ? I'm lost, i've found Modelsvit Su-22I and Su-22 um-K3 ( two seat )

Edited October 25, 2020 by Zorglub

[exdraken]

17 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Modelsvit does the best Fitter by far...

Not sure if there is an M4 already though....

 

All polish swing wing Fitters have the Al-21 engine and respective rear fuselage.

 

No M4 so far, but the um3k even comes with polish decals

https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/modelsvit-72051-su-22um3k--1206569

[Zorglub]

Thanks a lot.

[harvy5]

On 10/25/2020 at 2:13 PM, Giorgio N said:

The Su-22 had its own evolution: the Su-22M3 and older have the Tumanski R.29, the Su-22M4 has the AL-21. Your Polish M4 will have the AL-21.

The different engines result in a different shape of the rear fuselage and a different configuration of the various intakes in this area. If you compare the M4 with an M3 you'll easily see what I mean

You're wrong. Engines Tumasky R-29 received only aircraft that were exported outside WARPAC. Only exception was Hungary. Was the lack of engines AI-21,
therefore, outside of WARPAC, they had weaker MiG-23 engines.

[exdraken]

1 hour ago, harvy5 said:

You're wrong. Engines Tumasky R-29 received only aircraft that were exported outside WARPAC. Only exception was Hungary. Was the lack of engines AI-21,
therefore, outside of WARPAC, they had weaker MiG-23 engines.

Is there any Su-22M3 with the Al-21 engine anywhere?

Photos please!

 

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, harvy5 said:

You're wrong. Engines Tumasky R-29 received only aircraft that were exported outside WARPAC. Only exception was Hungary. Was the lack of engines AI-21,
therefore, outside of WARPAC, they had weaker MiG-23 engines.

 

No I'm not.

The Su-22, Su-22M and Su-22M3 all had R29 engines, regardless of the user. Hungary was the only WarPac user of any of these variants (the 22M3), all other users were outside the Pact.

The Su-22M4 used the same AL-21 of the Su-17 and this is true for all users. Just look at pictures of Vietnamese or Iraqi 22M4, they have the same rear fuselage of the Polish or Czech aircraft.

The rear fuselage of R29 powered variants is different because of the different engine, with a distinctive bulge toward the end. The position of the engine cooling intakes also differs, compare for example a Lybian aircraft (R29 powered Su-22M) with a Soviet Su-17M3 (with AL-21). No Su-22M4 shows the rear fuselage and intakes of the previous Su-22 single seater variants

I'll add a few pictures later to better show what I mean for those not familiar with these features

Edited November 1, 2020 by Giorgio N

[harvy5]

2 hours ago, exdraken said:

Is there any Su-22M3 with the Al-21 engine anywhere?

Photos please!

 

Ye mate!!!

Soviet Su-17M-3 with AI-21 engine.....

[harvy5]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

No I'm not.

The Su-22, Su-22M and Su-22M3 all had R29 engines, regardless of the user. Hungary was the only WarPac user of any of these variants (the 22M3), all other users were outside the Pact.

The Su-22M4 used the same AL-21 of the Su-17 and this is true for all users. Just look at pictures of Vietnamese or Iraqi 22M4, they have the same rear fuselage of the Polish or Czech aircraft.

The rear fuselage of R29 powered variants is different because of the different engine, with a distinctive bulge toward the end. The position of the engine cooling intakes also differs, compare for example a Lybian aircraft (R29 powered Su-22M) with a Soviet Su-17M3 (with AL-21). No Su-22M4 shows the rear fuselage and intakes of the previous Su-22 single seater variants

I'll add a few pictures later to better show what I mean for those not familiar with these features

I don't want to take your illusion, but you're very wrong!
The first is the designation Su-22, it is only for export aircrafts. Better is S-32 or S-52. 

Trust me! I was raised in communist Czechoslovakia and my teachers on High Aviation school was from Soviet union. My specialization is in civil aviation B1 / Part66 and military airframe and engine, Crew chief.

S-32 or Su-17 had engine AI-7 the same had Su-7. 

S-32M or Su-17M had engine AI-21

S-32MK or Su-20 is export version M but with older engine AI-7.Poland and Egypt

S-32M-2 or Su-17M2 the same Su-17M with new weapon systems and a bigger back

Su-22M is export version with R-29 engine Only two squadrons were armed in the Soviet Air Force

S-52 or Su-17M-3 had engine AI-21 new weapons systems,landing lights was moved on nose and P-62 racks under fix wing for R-60 missiles.In Afghanistan, they added another pair to the rear dispensers

S-52K or Su-22M-3K the same as Su-17M-3 with R-29 engine,without P-62 racks for R-60 missiles under fix wing,only two rear ASO-2V dispensers

S-54 or Su-17M-4 or Su-22M-4K are the same. This aircrafts had fixed shock cone and max.speed M-1,7M. Early Sukhoi had moved shock cone and max speed 2,1-2,3M. 

Su-22M-3K for Hungary is the same as Su-22M-4K but with R-29 engine. Before that, Hungary did not have Sukhoi but only MiGs ,and therefore for better logistics used the R-29 engine from the MiG-23.

It is only briefly written. That development was more complicated.For not good allies,were aircrafts with downgraded armament and engines.It was in 70th Egypt,Syria,Iraq,Vietnam,Peru and from WARPAC Poland.

Su-17M-3 build for Iraq 1979 with R-29

 

 

[exdraken]

1 hour ago, harvy5 said:

Ye mate!!!

 

Soviet Su-17M-3 with AI-21 engine.....

Thanks for those nice color photos!

But  they look suspicially like Soviet Union, not Export!

I do not discard that foreign pilots were trained on them though!

 

[harvy5]

6 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Thanks for those nice color photos!

But  they look suspicially like Soviet Union, not Export!

I do not discard that foreign pilots were trained on them though!

 

Werner your question was on the Su-22M-3 not the M-3K. Late 80th Soviets renamed Su-17M-3 and M-4 in Europe on  Su-22M-3 a M-4. 😀

[Giorgio N]

19 hours ago, harvy5 said:

I don't want to take your illusion, but you're very wrong!
The first is the designation Su-22, it is only for export aircrafts. Better is S-32 or S-52. 

Trust me! I was raised in communist Czechoslovakia and my teachers on High Aviation school was from Soviet union. My specialization is in civil aviation B1 / Part66 and military airframe and engine, Crew chief.

S-32 or Su-17 had engine AI-7 the same had Su-7. 

S-32M or Su-17M had engine AI-21

S-32MK or Su-20 is export version M but with older engine AI-7.Poland and Egypt

S-32M-2 or Su-17M2 the same Su-17M with new weapon systems and a bigger back

Su-22M is export version with R-29 engine Only two squadrons were armed in the Soviet Air Force

S-52 or Su-17M-3 had engine AI-21 new weapons systems,landing lights was moved on nose and P-62 racks under fix wing for R-60 missiles.In Afghanistan, they added another pair to the rear dispensers

S-52K or Su-22M-3K the same as Su-17M-3 with R-29 engine,without P-62 racks for R-60 missiles under fix wing,only two rear ASO-2V dispensers

S-54 or Su-17M-4 or Su-22M-4K are the same. This aircrafts had fixed shock cone and max.speed M-1,7M. Early Sukhoi had moved shock cone and max speed 2,1-2,3M. 

Su-22M-3K for Hungary is the same as Su-22M-4K but with R-29 engine. Before that, Hungary did not have Sukhoi but only MiGs ,and therefore for better logistics used the R-29 engine from the MiG-23.

It is only briefly written. That development was more complicated.For not good allies,were aircrafts with downgraded armament and engines.It was in 70th Egypt,Syria,Iraq,Vietnam,Peru and from WARPAC Poland.

Su-17M-3 build for Iraq 1979 with R-29

 

 

 

 

 

 

In sure trust your knowledge on the ttpe but you didn't take any of my "illusions", as what you explained in your post is the same that I wrote in mine ! Looking at all types in your list that carry as original designation Su-22, they all have an R29 engine with the exception of the M-4 that you say had the AL-21 engine. And this is exactly what I previously said.