1/72 Sea Harrier vortex generators

[fatalbert]

Hi guys,does anyone know of any company makes  photo etch vortex generators  in 1/72.I have an Extrakit FA2 Sea Harrier and the wings have no VG on them.The thought of makeing them out of plastic card and getting them all the same fills me with dread 😬.

Neil

[72modeler]

Maybe an old Airwaves or PP Aeroparts etched set? Although anybody who can actually attach those teensy-weensy little bits of thin brass to a 1/72 model and get them on straight with no cement showing has my undying admiration!  Maybe posing that query on the Harrier SIG website might bring results.

[fatalbert]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Maybe an old Airwaves or PP Aeroparts etched set? Although anybody who can actually attach those teensy-weensy little bits of thin brass to a 1/72 model and get them on straight with no cement showing has my undying admiration!  Maybe posing that query on the Harrier SIG website might bring results.

Thanks,i know what you mean but i have more chance of gluing them than getting a load all made he same shape out of plastic card lol

[Selwyn]

16 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Maybe an old Airwaves or PP Aeroparts etched set? Although anybody who can actually attach those teensy-weensy little bits of thin brass to a 1/72 model and get them on straight with no cement showing has my undying admiration!  Maybe posing that query on the Harrier SIG website might bring results.

Shouldnt be a problem, the originals were a metal bent at 90 degree angle with a chamfered leading edge and were glued to the top of the wing, All the aftermarket ones are wrong being just  flat plate which has a chamfer and almost impossible  to glue.

 

Selwyn

[Smudge]

20 hours ago, fatalbert said:

The thought of making them out of plastic card and getting them all the same fills me with dread 😬.

 

Hi @fatalbert, I had a go at this recently, and I quite enjoyed the process. I think it worked out ok, and I will do it again for other projects. There are some pictures of my process and efforts here.

 

http://britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049533-airfix-172-hawker-siddeley-hawk-t1a/

 

(its all on the first page so easy to find)

 

Plastic card is much easier to work with as the glue/solvent will actually weld them to the wing, as opposed to  brass etch and cyno/superglue which can be brittle and easily knocked off. (as Selwyn notes). It's worth noting that on the Harrier the vortex generators get progressively smaller as they go outboard, so they are all a different size. Again, if you use plastic card you can easily trim them to size and shape whilst in position on the wing.

 

Have a go. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

[fatalbert]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

 

Hi @fatalbert, I had a go at this recently, and I quite enjoyed the process. I think it worked out ok, and I will do it again for other projects. There are some pictures of my process and efforts here.

 

http://britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049533-airfix-172-hawker-siddeley-hawk-t1a/

 

(its all on the first page so easy to find)

 

Plastic card is much easier to work with as the glue/solvent will actually weld them to the wing, as opposed to  brass etch and cyno/superglue which can be brittle and easily knocked off. (as Selwyn notes). It's worth noting that on the Harrier the vortex generators get progressively smaller as they go outboard, so they are all a different size. Again, if you use plastic card you can easily trim them to size and shape whilst in position on the wing.

 

Have a go. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Smudge,most helpful,i think i will have to go down the same route.Sigh i see many hours of plastic card trimming ahead of me lol.

[Giorgio N]

Considering the cost of some PE sheets, the best replacement would probably be finding a wing from the Italeri/Esci kit...  don't know if it fits, would require some modifications but would be nicer than the original Xtrakit parts....

[fatalbert]

55 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Considering the cost of some PE sheets, the best replacement would probably be finding a wing from the Italeri/Esci kit...  don't know if it fits, would require some modifications but would be nicer than the original Xtrakit parts....

Now thats a good idea,i have a Hasegawa kit somewhere,i will have a look at that.Cheers Giorgio.🙂

[Giorgio N]

If you don't mind "sacrificing" a Hasegawa Sea Harrier, then you may consider kit-bashing the two kits together, it will lead to a better FA.2.

 

[fatalbert]

The thing that annoys me with the hasegawa sea harrier is the nose area,its too short.

[WARDOG]

56 minutes ago, fatalbert said:

The thing that annoys me with the hasegawa sea harrier is the nose area,its too short.

Even more annoying is the fact that NO manufacturer has made a resin correction/ replacement!

 

I believe the Hasegawa kit is decent and with a little extra love for the cockpit and some other details, makes a nice edition to your collection.

 

WARDOG

Edited October 20, 2020 by WARDOG
Spelling/spacing errors

[Seahawk]

1 hour ago, fatalbert said:

The thing that annoys me with the hasegawa sea harrier is the nose area,its too short.

That's why it's the ideal base for a F/A.2 conversion: you lose the bits that are wrong.  Long ago Maintrack did a resin conversion set with a new nose, the rear fuselage plug and inserts for the wing leading edges to adjust the dogtooth: I was delighted to find a use finally for the Hasegawa Sea Harrier FRS.1.

 

The Hasegawa Tornado GR.1 likewise had a nose that was too short (though several people have since done correction noses for it) but it was ages before anyone said so in the modelling media.   Amazing what you can get away with if you have a good reputation.

[Graham Boak]

32 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

 

The Hasegawa Tornado GR.1 likewise had a nose that was too short (though several people have since done correction noses for it) but it was ages before anyone said so in the modelling media.   Amazing what you can get away with if you have a good reputation.

It was pointed out fairly early by a BAe/Panavia employee, who covered it in an article in one of the leading magazines.  That this was then largely ignored is another matter, to do with the modelling media largely being produced and written by people who make great journalists and/or modellers but know SFA about the subjects.  Which is not completely their fault, as no-one knows everything and many model buyers don't care a hoot how long a nose (in this case) ought to be.  Hence the abuse often directed at those who do.  Personally, I've always long felt that Hasegawa was a great company let down by its forays into British subjects.

[fatalbert]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Personally, I've always long felt that Hasegawa was a great company let down by its forays into British subjects.

Like the Jaguars  solid nose and awful air brakes.

[Britman]

I feel your pain, try 1/144th vortex generators on an Argosy!

 

Keith

[Giorgio N]

The Hasegawa Tornado nose was little discussed at the time simply because the internet was not as popular as today, however I remember this problem being mentioned in magazines.

Regarding the lack of corrections for the Hase Sea Harrier, I guess that the appearance shortly after of the very good Esci kit made such an exercixe useless since modellers interested in a more accurate kit could just buy the Italian offering. It's a pity that neither Xtrakit nor Airfix could make an FA.2 to the same level of the Esci kit.

 

Back to the Xtrakit SH and the vortex generators, I had vague memories that the Special Hobby box of the same kit included these parts in the PE sheet but then I checked on a website and the sheet does not seem to have them. A pity as otherwise asking Special Hobby to buy the PE sheet only would have sorted the matter

[fatalbert]

So i have compaired the two kits,the Xtrakit and Hasegawa kits and my advice is if you want to make the Xtrakit Sea Harrier FA2 then get yourself the Hasegawa FRS1 kit and use it as a Hangar queen.The xtrakit seems to have been based on the Hasegawa one so am going to use the upper wings,exhaust nozzles,exhast sheilds and anything else i can.The wings will need modification but that will be alot easier than adding Vortex generators to the xtrakit ones.Plus you get lots of extra bits and bobs like missiles bombs gun pods etc.

[72modeler]

9 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

t's a pity that neither Xtrakit nor Airfix could make an FA.2 to the same level of the Esci kit.

Giorgio- could a decent FA2 be done using the Esci/Italeri kit as the basis and using an aftermarket cockpit, nose, resin nozzles pylons, etc.; are the LERX different on the FA2 as well? I'm sure there are a lot of other little details as well, but since I hadn't really given any thought to building an FA2, I really haven't done any research into the detail differences. BTW- hoping you are safe and OK with the upsurge in Covid cases across Europe. Stammi bene!

Mike

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Giorgio- could a decent FA2 be done using the Esci/Italeri kit as the basis and using an aftermarket cockpit, nose, resin nozzles pylons, etc.; are the LERX different on the FA2 as well? I'm sure there are a lot of other little details as well, but since I hadn't really given any thought to building an FA2, I really haven't done any research into the detail differences. BTW- hoping you are safe and OK with the upsurge in Covid cases across Europe. Stammi bene!

Mike

 

Mike, it is possible to convert the Esci kit but you need more: yes the wing is different from the FSR.1 in area of the leading edge close yo the fuselage. More difficult for a modeller, the fuselage received an additional section behind the wing so it's longer. 

There have been a few conversions in the past, IIRC also specifically for the Esci kit. If searching for one, better check it's made for the kit you have. A conversion for the Hasegawa kit may not fit the Esci one, particularly in the fuselage plus.

[72modeler]

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall somebody did an aftermarket conversion that had the fuselage splice as a resin piece, I might look at my new-tool Airfix FA2 and my Esci FRS1 to see if I can incorporate the FA2 dedicated bits, including maybe the entire rear section of the Airfix kit from the splice point back, if the cross sections of the two kits will permit; I know I will need the corrected resin radome in any case.  That being said, I much prefer the FRS1 to the FA2, so am in no hurry to knock out an FA2. Thanks for responding so quickly.

Mike

[Giorgio N]

Conversions were made for sure by Maintrack, Whirlybirds and Heritage Aviation and all included the fuselage plug. Mind, I don't know if these were all different conversions or the same conversion reissued under different names, in any case all offered the new radome, parts of the wing leading edges and the rear fuselage plug.

I wouldn't bother much with the the parts from the Airfix kit as the rear fuselage in that kit is IMHO not particularly accurate. It is unfortunately a kit that does not rate very high in accuracy...

Of course the fuselage plug can also be made out of plasticard and I've seen at least a couple models made this way before conversions became available.