VAT nightmare incoming

[JeffreyK]

7 hours ago, alt-92 said:

Having received several deliveries from multiple countries including JP - Most carriers already do.

Either on the stickers or documents stuck in the sleeve.

 

Most customers order standard, untracked delivery and the CN22 customs sticker Japan Post issues for that purpose doesn't have anything on it to mark anything about tax/VAT.

J

[hairystick]

19 hours ago, Skodadriver said:

So how does that work in practice?

 

Are the small one-man decal or P/E businesses that we depend on still able and/or willing to sell directly to modellers in New Zealand?

I'm sure that smaller consignments will still arrive happily and safely.

Here, our government is more interested in gathering tax from the larger revenue streams (amazon, etc) and also electronic sources (tv, video, etc) as they are easier to control.

There is currently a referendum happening to see if we will make marijuana legal....... which will make another tax revenue stream available for the cash-strapped politicians. 

[Filbert_Wang]

Now going to be a good time to get that small aircraft license then.

 

How many kits could you carry in the back of a Cessna do you reckon? 

[Ed Russell]

It actually looks like this was an EU initiative that has been taken up by the UK.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en

I think many of the small problems will arise when unskilled tax and customs officers have to make decisions themselves. That's already happening as evidenced by the problems @JeffreyK is having finding the right person to  ask questions of.

As a small exporter to the UK we are interested but we will wait and see. We are happy to do the right thing but our volumes are not sufficient to justify any additional expenditure.

[DJPFlightpath]

On 18/10/2020 at 20:48, roym said:

Genuine question at the end of this rambling...

 

its all well and good to say this will level the playing field but thats only when the items are available in the UK. I can't see the likes of the cottage industry who generate most or all sales from direct sale on their websites bothering to sell to the UK anymore. Thinking of Max Decals, Caracal, Starfighter decals, Wolfpak decals etc, and then the likes of Special Hobby, Eduard etc, and that's before we get into photo etch or resin. Who in the UK sells a dedicated photo etch for Titanic or decals for USS Nimitz that are NOT Gold Medal Models or Starfighter? Who besides Max Decals does Irish Air Corps Walrus or PC-9 decals? I know some companies have deals with the likes of Hannants but I hope you get my drift. I see the point about kits but what when the online retailer is the ONLY source for the item? E.g with Aeroclub gone are SAC the only source of metal undercarriage parts? If this ends up Piddling off the EU and they decide to reciprocate can the likes of Flightpath continue to sell to the EU? And lastly,  is this the end of Britmodellers outside the UK selling our surplus kits and decals to britmodellers in the UK on the Britmodeller buy and sell section? 

 

(Sorry had to laugh when I saw the term "post brexit plans" ... up there with "military intelligence"...)

 

Possibly this thread is over-complicating things? And I speak as keen 'Remainer' - running for cover!

 

As I understand it from next January [31st I think], sales to EU countries from the UK will be exports, just as in shipping stuff to the USA, Canada etc.  We will simply deduct the UK VAT from the selling price and the end-user will pay VAT at their current rate if the parcel is unlucky enough to get singled out. If it doesn't then they are 'quids in', as we say here.

 

We ship without problems to vitually every country - though I note our North Korean orders are down lately!!! Never a problem. Only been doing it for 46 years though, so there may alway be a first time for a snarl-up.

 

Hope this helps

 

David Parkins

Flightpath,

www.djparkins.com

 

[Skodadriver]

2 hours ago, djparkins said:

 

Possibly this thread is over-complicating things? And I speak as keen 'Remainer' - running for cover!

 

As I understand it from next January [31st I think], sales to EU countries from the UK will be exports, just as in shipping stuff to the USA, Canada etc.  We will simply deduct the UK VAT from the selling price and the end-user will pay VAT at their current rate if the parcel is unlucky enough to get singled out. If it doesn't then they are 'quids in', as we say here.

 

We ship without problems to vitually every country - though I note our North Korean orders are down lately!!! Never a problem. Only been doing it for 46 years though, so there may alway be a first time for a snarl-up.

 

Hope this helps

 

David Parkins

Flightpath,

www.djparkins.com

 

 

As a fellow Remainer I'm afraid I don't think your post really answers the point that is troubling most of us, certainly me.

 

What is the position about direct-sell goods coming INTO the UK?  If the seller uses a platform, most obviously eBay, the platform will deal with VAT matters but many small manufacturers only sell directly. My understanding is that a foreign direct seller is required to register with HMRC and account for UK VAT. In my area of modelling interest, civil airliners, that would seem to affect a seller like Authentic Airliners, a small German-based company (actually a retired Lufthansa pilot and a couple of family members) making expensive, high quality, limited run 1/144 resin kits. They only sell directly and my concern is that they will find the new regime so much bother they will stop selling to the UK. There are many other similar examples. William Shatner kicked the whole thing off when he announced that because of the costs involved his Canadian online store would stop selling to the UK next January and asked “Why should I do the job of a foreign government whom I have no connection with?”

[DJPFlightpath]

1 hour ago, Skodadriver said:

 

As a fellow Remainer I'm afraid I don't think your post really answers the point that is troubling most of us, certainly me.

 

What is the position about direct-sell goods coming INTO the UK?  If the seller uses a platform, most obviously eBay, the platform will deal with VAT matters but many small manufacturers only sell directly. My understanding is that a foreign direct seller is required to register with HMRC and account for UK VAT. In my area of modelling interest, civil airliners, that would seem to affect a seller like Authentic Airliners, a small German-based company (actually a retired Lufthansa pilot and a couple of family members) making expensive, high quality, limited run 1/144 resin kits. They only sell directly and my concern is that they will find the new regime so much bother they will stop selling to the UK. There are many other similar examples. William Shatner kicked the whole thing off when he announced that because of the costs involved his Canadian online store would stop selling to the UK next January and asked “Why should I do the job of a foreign government whom I have no connection with?”

 

One of the questions the poster asked was if companies like Flightpath would bother to ship to EU countries. I was simply explaining that we will. I was referring to no other part of the post.

[Skodadriver]

Apologies @djparkins I should have read more carefully and engaged brain before engaging keyboard but anything involving Brexit even indirectly tends to give me red mist.

[DJPFlightpath]

41 minutes ago, Skodadriver said:

Apologies @djparkins I should have read more carefully and engaged brain before engaging keyboard but anything involving Brexit even indirectly tends to give me red mist.

 

I fully agree with that!!!

[roym]

11 hours ago, djparkins said:

 

Possibly this thread is over-complicating things? And I speak as keen 'Remainer' - running for cover!

 

As I understand it from next January [31st I think], sales to EU countries from the UK will be exports, just as in shipping stuff to the USA, Canada etc.  We will simply deduct the UK VAT from the selling price and the end-user will pay VAT at their current rate if the parcel is unlucky enough to get singled out. If it doesn't then they are 'quids in', as we say here.

 

We ship without problems to vitually every country - though I note our North Korean orders are down lately!!! Never a problem. Only been doing it for 46 years though, so there may alway be a first time for a snarl-up.

 

Hope this helps

 

David Parkins

Flightpath,

www.djparkins.com

 

Thanks for that and am glad I can still order from you in the new-year! I was imagining what might happen if the EU reciprocated and asked you to deduct Vat on shipping orders to (for example ) ROI. All theoretical mind...

[George Norman]

Shipment to Ireland will no doubt have fees incurred as from what customs have told me they are going with the EFTA model for now to items will have to be processed and Fees to do that will be levied. Also The VAT Limit for import into the EU will be removed from ceiling of  €22.00  to €0.00 Jan 1st, I wonder how the couriers will be collecting the VAT due on even small shipments and if there will be fees imposed for same. Ordering little bits n bobs from the UK now could have even more costs to the buyer even if there is no duty to collect.

 

It will certainly reduce my buying habits from the UK.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by George Norman

[IanHx]

We can probably expect to see overseas websites imposing a minimum order size of £135.01 when shipping to the UK then.....

[IanHx]

12 hours ago, George Norman said:

Shipment to Ireland will no doubt have fees incurred as from what customs have told me they are going with the EFTA model for now to items will have to be processed and Fee to do that will be levied. Also The VAT Limit for import into the EU will be removed from ceiling of  €22.00  to €0.00 Jan 1st, I wonder how the couriers will be collecting the VAT due on even small shipments and if there will be fees imposed for same. Ordering little bits n bobs from the UK now could have even more costs to the buyer even if there is not duty to collect.

 

It will certainly reduce my buying habits from the UK.

 

Given that nobody wants to impose a hard border in Ireland, then theoretically you could drive to eg Belfast, do a bit of shopping, and return ?   

[Duncan B]

1 hour ago, IanHx said:

Given that nobody wants to impose a hard border in Ireland, then theoretically you could drive to eg Belfast, do a bit of shopping, and return ?   

Or use one of the postal services that provide a UK "postbox" for mail to Ireland (of course they will probably have to declare the items so it might make no difference going forward).

 

Duncan B

[George Norman]

2 hours ago, IanHx said:

Given that nobody wants to impose a hard border in Ireland, then theoretically you could drive to eg Belfast, do a bit of shopping, and return ?   

 

Yes, Done that, Enniskillen is nice for tourist stuff and shops plus it has a model shop. Not Practical from Cork to do it regularly.

 

Depending on the outcome there could be customs posts yet, I remember going up the for an interview in RAF Aldergrove 1987, Very unnerving were the check points to this 17 year old at the time when the only guns you saw were on the A Team. Checkpoints not matter who is running them will cause the usual savages on both sides to come out of the long grass.

 

The customs webinars are getting hot an heavy at the moment and that's my job! Could of done without it!

[IanHx]

5 hours ago, George Norman said:

 

Yes, Done that, Enniskillen is nice for tourist stuff and shops plus it has a model shop. Not Practical from Cork to do it regularly.

 

Depending on the outcome there could be customs posts yet, I remember going up the for an interview in RAF Aldergrove 1987, Very unnerving were the check points to this 17 year old at the time when the only guns you saw were on the A Team. Checkpoints not matter who is running them will cause the usual savages on both sides to come out of the long grass.

 

The customs webinars are getting hot an heavy at the moment and that's my job! Could of done without it!

 

Reminds me of my one and only sales trip to Belfast during the early 90s.  Had just finished remarking how normal the place was when an army patrol came round the corner !

 

VAT... urgh...  having to look into as part of my job too.   Not sure they'll appreciate  being told "well we could try ordering widgets from Luckymodel Japan  and hope for the best".   Gift-wrapped warehouse cranes , maybe ? 

[Tiger331]

 

Lived and worked in a non-EU European country for six years. 'Imported/Exported' lots of kits, decals etc over that time period. Sometimes the Customs authorities charged...sometimes they didn't (even if the customs declaration stated the items were over the import limit). It was luck of the draw but then I was living in a country where the LMS was selling Airfix Canberras for £90 and Hasegawa A-4 Skyhawks for £75 so everything was a bonus !. 

[northernbiff]

<Provocative trolling removed - first post too>

[bentwaters81tfw]

54 minutes ago, northernbiff said:

<Provocative trolling removed - first post too>

A friendly word to the wise - political comment will get you unwanted attention from the Mods. Whichever side of the divide you may be. You may wish to edit your post.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Mike
You were right Frank ;)

[janneman36]

If needed next year I can smuggle some contraband kits to the UK for you all in my double floored car..

It is at a first come first serve basis !!

Kits and aftermarket items are allready not the cheapest in the UK but I hope that they will settle with Europe somehow..

Customs in the Netherlands still doesn’t give a conclusive answer about what is going to happen after Januari the first..

I even bought some Stynylrez primers last week from the UK 🇬🇧 in order to avoid hideous prices 😜

 

 cheers, Jan

[northernbiff]

45 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

A friendly word to the wise - political comment will get you unwanted attention from the Mods. Whichever side of the divide you may be. You may wish to edit your post.

Since you've posted my quote in full, there's little point in editing it.

<more politics removed - keep this up and you'll be leaving>

Edited November 24, 2020 by Mike
Politics again and an attempt at swearing, edited twice by yourself. We also don't want profanity here.

[bentwaters81tfw]

31 minutes ago, northernbiff said:

Since you've posted my quote in full, there's little point in editing it.

<Political nonsense>

Edited. Better?

Edited November 24, 2020 by Mike
Not discernably better, please don't feed the trolls.

[Duncan B]

Shall I start the countdown?  5......

[Bullbasket]

There are three things that are certain in this life; 1, Death, 2, Southend Utd losing at home, and 3, thread drift, resulting in thread shut down.

 

John.

[roym]

On 11/10/2020 at 9:23 AM, Duncan B said:

Or use one of the postal services that provide a UK "postbox" for mail to Ireland (of course they will probably have to declare the items so it might make no difference going forward).

 

Duncan B

Given the fact that still, at this point, even now, there is no clarity as to what trading conditions are going to exist after Dec 31st this might all be moot. However as the NI protocol suggests that NI will still be defacto in the SM & CU, any trade going between GB & NI may (or may not!) be treated as trade GB-EU. So that may no longer be an option. The general consensus here in ROI is that it won't be. However, we still don't know for sure.

As it stands this is the only confirmed info I have so far, from Anpost.com 

 

"Will duty and taxes apply to all goods received from the UK?

If the EU and the UK don't reach a customs agreement, goods coming to Ireland from the UK may be liable for duty and taxes except for:

Items with a value less than €22

Gift items worth less than €45"

 

A safe bet would be that the reverse is also likely...