F4U Corsair

[Crane]

Hey Folks,

 

I am having trouble finding Corsairs with the tri-color scheme that have carrier markings. Is it due to lack of documentation? or for some reason the tri-colored schemed aircraft did not get markings? Were most of them land-based, hence the lack of carrier markings?

 

Also, are there any good examples of the walk-line placement on the wings? Did the width and placement vary?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello Crane.. Other than early carrier trials by VF-17 and Night fighter use most if not all the 3/4 tone camouflaged planes were land based. I will check my sources and see what I can find though. 

[Work In Progress]

Yes, the tricolour scheme was before the Corsair was made acceptable for US carrier operations

[72modeler]

If by carrier markings you mean the geometric symbols painted on the fin and outer wings, I don't remember offhand when the geometric markings were introduced, but they might have been authorized about the time Corsairs went from the tri-color scheme to overall sea blue. You might want to do an internet search for F4U-1 decal sheets in the scale you are building to see examples.

 

For the wing walkway lines, I think they were much more commonly seen on the Corsairs in the blue-grey/grey scheme; not so much on the tri-color scheme Corsairs. I have attached a link to an F4U simulation site, which does have some very accurate color depictions of the walkways and walkway lines as applied to the early variants, as well as a lot of good modeling details- it appears to be well-researched. It's hard to find good period photos that show them- maybe @corsaircorp or @Corsairfoxfouruncle have something better in their references? If I can find a painting T.O. or decent photos, I will post them,

Mike

 

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/702965/manuals/F4U_Corsair_Manual.pdf?t=1517565694

 

Here's a painting guide from the Tamiya 1/48 kit that has an accurate representation of the walkways and walkway lines; doubtful the lines would be very visible on a tri-color Corsair as the non specular sea blue would have very little contrast against the black lines, which is maybe why you don't see them in photos.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/44191640070847288/?nic_v2=1a2OxZahJ

Edited October 15, 2020 by 72modeler
added link corrected text

[corsaircorp]

Hello Crane !

I agree with my colleagues !!

3 tones scheme has not or very scarcely be used in carrier ops !

The VF 17 used it for trials on the Chesapeake bay with the Birdcage Corsairs..

The Birdcage Corsair has been used by U.S Marines land based Sqdn, I mean in combat operations.

Now F4U-2, the Ni Fi version has been used by both Marines and U.S.N Sqdn for combat operations.

But, there is always a BUT !! The VF-17 used the F4U-1A in combat from a carrier during an attack on Rabaul.

They took off their Land base, provide a fighting cover when the Air Group was launched, 

Then they land on Carrier CV-17 if my memory did'nt fail too much, Refuel, rearm, and provide a cover for the Air Group coming back from Rabaul.

It has been a feisty combat day for J.T. Blackburn and his happy bearded pirates.

I know only one walkway paint scheme for the Corsairs... When it was employed....

Hope it help.

CC

[Crane]

So it is safe to also assume the tri-color scheme aircraft had no tail hook either?

[72modeler]

I don't think the Marine Corsairs did, although I do recall reading about one squadron's aircraft  that landed aboard a carrier after a sortie, so they must have had hooks fitted- maybe for that mission? @Dana Bell might know.

Mike

[Scooby]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

I don't think the Marine Corsairs did, although I do recall reading about one squadron's aircraft  that landed aboard a carrier after a sortie, so they must have had hooks fitted- maybe for that mission? @Dana Bell might know.

Mike

Yes, there were missions that involved carrier landings where Marine Corsairs had hooks re-installed (not just once).

 

 

[Scooby]

On 10/15/2020 at 12:15 AM, Crane said:

Hey Folks,

 

I am having trouble finding Corsairs with the tri-color scheme that have carrier markings. Is it due to lack of documentation? or for some reason the tri-colored schemed aircraft did not get markings? Were most of them land-based, hence the lack of carrier markings?

 

Also, are there any good examples of the walk-line placement on the wings? Did the width and placement vary?

Correct, the Corsair started the war land based in the tri-color scheme. By the time the Corsair was carrier based they were in the GSB scheme. And there were far more carriers and therefore a greater need to easily visually identify which group/carrier the Corsairs/aircraft belonged to when they formed up in the air. 

 

Fundecals have images of VMF-321 tri-colored Corsairs on carriers with unit markings as they were ferried between islands. This is on their Whistling Death sheets.

[72modeler]

@Scooby,

 

True! I just now remembered I have a monograph that I got a long time ago that describes the history behind the geometric markings, as well as illustrations of each carrier's symbols and how they were applied on each airplane...think it was by Hill. Have to go up to the archives and look for it! (So many d---- references I  have a hard time keeping track of them,) When I  moved my library from my hobby room to upstairs, I had to re-learn where everything ended up!

Mike

 

Found it! Chronology of Camouflage and Markings for US Naval Aircraft, WW2, by R.M. Hill. It was published by the Richard Bong Chapter, IPMS, Milwaukee, WI. in 1970. Has written chronology of how national insignia, rudder stripes, markings, and exterior/interior colors changed from December, 1940 to July, 1945. Includes tail codes and later geometric  symbols for each carrier, as well as drawings showing how they were applied on various aircraft. Took me a while to unearth it, as it's a very slim thirteen page monograph.

Edited October 18, 2020 by 72modeler
added text

[EwenS]

All the various carrier markings were also detailed in a book by Geoff Thomas published back in 1989 if you can locate a copy.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Navy-Carrier-Aircraft-Colours-Operations/dp/B01K3LYUMY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Us+navy+carrier+aircraft+colours&qid=1603045285&s=books&sr=1-1

 

 

[fubar57]

10 minutes ago, EwenS said:

All the various carrier markings were also detailed in a book by Geoff Thomas published back in 1989 if you can locate a copy.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Navy-Carrier-Aircraft-Colours-Operations/dp/B01K3LYUMY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Us+navy+carrier+aircraft+colours&qid=1603045285&s=books&sr=1-1

 

 

Just looked up that book on Amazon; says it was published in 1641

Edited October 18, 2020 by fubar57
Eye cannt spel rite

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, fubar57 said:

says it was published in 1641

Must have been the original Corsair sailing ship- you want the Corsair 1!  

Mike

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, EwenS said:

All the various carrier markings were also detailed

there is a very handy website which lists the same information

http://www.pmcn.de/English/USN Markings II/USN Markings II.htm

http://www.pmcn.de/English/USN Markings III/USN Markings III.htm

 

HTH

 

[noelh]

According to the book I have VMF-123 and VMF-124 were the first US squadrons to operate the Corsair in combat from a carrier. That was the end of December 1944. So you can be sure by then they were GSB. 

 

Of course VF-17 did fly from a carrier but of course they weren't carrier  based.

[72modeler]

44 minutes ago, noelh said:

Of course VF-17 did fly from a carrier

In fact, they did the carrier quals for the Corsair, commanded by Tommy Blackburn. Funny that the FAA pilots had much less trouble coming aboard, as they flew a constant curving approach and only straightened out  at the last moment, thus having much better visibility around that hog nose than the traditional long, straight-in approach used by the USN pilots!

Mike

Edited October 19, 2020 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[noelh]

Indeed they did. Blackburn himself did the first landing and wrecked the wheels and tyres. He said that on final approach he couldn't see the carrier at all. Just the LSO and Chesapeake bay on either side.  'Like an idiot', his words, he lowered the nose to see the carrier and bounced badly.

But the squadron managed to qualify with a few banged up airplanes. But no injuries. 'A terrific performance', as he said.

 

The British curved approach was better for visibility and was safer but required very precise speed  control. It's  much easier to stall in a turn. But practice makes perfect.

Edited October 20, 2020 by noelh

[EwenS]

1 hour ago, noelh said:

According to the book I have VMF-123 and VMF-124 were the first US squadrons to operate the Corsair in combat from a carrier. That was the end of December 1944. So you can be sure by then they were GSB. 

 

Of course VF-17 did fly from a carrier but of course they weren't carrier  based.

Minor correction. The first Marine squadrons on the fast carriers in Dec 1944 were VMF124 and VMF213 (not 123) on the USS Essex. They joined that ship on 9 Dec.

 

VMF123 joined VMF112 on the USS Bennington on 31 Dec 1944.

 

IIRC 10 Marine fighter squadrons served on the fast carriers from Dec 1944 to about May 1945. Other carriers involved were Wasp, Franklin and Bunker Hill.