Coloured dots on Russian jets

[NDB16]

I'm doing research on some Russian aircraft and I found that some, like the Su-24 or Su-25 have on several parts of the fuselage coloured dots painted on them, ofter near panel lines. I've seen red, blue, yellow and green dots. Does anyone know what they stand for, I'm curious about them.

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

 

Nic

[Flankerman]

As I understand it, they are to align the panels - so that ham-fisted conscript groundcrew can't fit the removable panels the wrong way round.

 

They just have to line up the coloured dots - and the panel will be correctly fitted.

 

Ken

[Blimpyboy]

I'm sure, many years ago, I saw an online article about them, which was simply called "DOTS!" (or, was it "SPOTS!"), but do you think I can find it now? If I recall, it was something to do with certain maintenance actions and associated sequences (pre-flight vs post-flight, etc.).

A random thought - given that most panels the spots are on are hinged, I'm not sure there would be a need to line up the edges...

 

Also - and I'm not 100% sure of this - I think they're more prevalent on Sukhoi aircraft.

 

Edit - this page (http://modeltalking.hobbyart.sk/?p=1433) has some good shots of a Slovak Su-25. This picture (http://modeltalking.hobbyart.sk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Su-25-Avionics-Nose-Left.jpg) has what looks like a legend for the dots - sadly, my Slovak is a little rusty...

 

Good luck!

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[NDB16]

Thank you for the feedback! It is true that these dots are mostly on the panel edges, but it puzzles me that there are variations. On the tip of the nose of the Su-25, it's just red, on other parts, such as the step to get into the cockpit it's red, blue and green and on other parts, like the air intake there is only a yellow dot. And with the Su-24 I found all 4 colours together!

 

Thank you for posting the links too, I'll just need to find someone who can read Russian. If I find it, I'll let you know!

 

Nic

[Tailspin Turtle]

Usually, the dots are QA stickers. Quality Assurance (QA) inspects the compartment for FOD, leaks, workmanship, etc. and authorizes closing it up. After that, he or she applies the sticker with his or her stamp on it to the panel’s edge, overlapping the panel and the adjacent skin. If the panel has to be removed, the broken sticker indicates that it has to be reinspected before it can be closed up. I’ve only known them to be white, though.

[Rob de Bie]

From what I remember of our (former) East Germany spotting days, the coloured dots indicated for what level of inspection the hatches needed to be opened. As a fictitious example, preflight checks required all yellow-dotted hatches to be opened; end-of-the-day checks required red dotted hatches to be opened, etc, Pretty smart system I think.

 

Rob

[NDB16]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!

 

I just got info back from a Russian pilot that I could ask the question - through a friend, through a friend and Rob is the winner: the dots indicate the necessity to inspect the bays: a yellow dot is for a pre-flight inspection, green and blue for checks in between flights on the same day and red for end of day inspections. Knowing that some panels have to be opened by removing a ton of screws, such as on the nose of the Su-24 MR, that needs a lot of time and discipline!

 

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

Nic

[Red Dot]

good plan, until you get a colour blind conscript

 

Andy

[TheyJammedKenny!]

23 hours ago, Red Dot said:

good plan, until you get a colour blind conscript

Very funny!  That could indeed be a problem, but I understand that Russian aircraft have a different design philosophy that draws heavily on the military culture, which is almost entirely different from our own.  Including during much of the Soviet period, the Russians have not generally left this sort of thing to 1-year-service conscripts, but commissioned officers, and the selection process is more robust.  Whereas we would have a supervisory lieutenant with minimal technical knowledge in charge of a group of 50 or so enlisted maintainers, including long-serving junior and senior NCOs (who actually do all the line work), the Russians would have a bunch of lieutenants and captains actually doing the line work, like inspecting things underneath the panels and replacing parts.  I stand to be corrected, but the Russians (and those whom they sell their equipment) have never trusted conscripts or volunteer enlisted personnel with doing inspections or conducting other than the most basic maintenance.

[harvy5]

On 10/28/2020 at 4:51 PM, TheyJammedKenny! said:

Very funny!  That could indeed be a problem, but I understand that Russian aircraft have a different design philosophy that draws heavily on the military culture, which is almost entirely different from our own.  Including during much of the Soviet period, the Russians have not generally left this sort of thing to 1-year-service conscripts, but commissioned officers, and the selection process is more robust.  Whereas we would have a supervisory lieutenant with minimal technical knowledge in charge of a group of 50 or so enlisted maintainers, including long-serving junior and senior NCOs (who actually do all the line work), the Russians would have a bunch of lieutenants and captains actually doing the line work, like inspecting things underneath the panels and replacing parts.  I stand to be corrected, but the Russians (and those whom they sell their equipment) have never trusted conscripts or volunteer enlisted personnel with doing inspections or conducting other than the most basic maintenance.

You have only partial truth! Yes they did not believe recruits but ...  

The Air Force was one of the few components of the Soviet army where it served mainly professionals. But to restock were also recruits.Therefore, those colored dots and on each covers stenciles with job descriptions. 

As Crew Chief, I was assigned 3 specialists. For electrical, radio and armament systems. All other auxiliary work was done recruits.

Therefore, Soviet weapons and aircraft are also easy to operate.... 

[TheyJammedKenny!]

6 hours ago, harvy5 said:

You have only partial truth! Yes they did not believe recruits but ...  

The Air Force was one of the few components of the Soviet army where it served mainly professionals. But to restock were also recruits.Therefore, those colored dots and on each covers stenciles with job descriptions. 

As Crew Chief, I was assigned 3 specialists. For electrical, radio and armament systems. All other auxiliary work was done recruits.

Therefore, Soviet weapons and aircraft are also easy to operate.... 

 

Out of curiosity, were you a commissioned officer or an enlisted man?  

 

In the USAF, a Crew Chief is a Senior Airman or Staff Sergeant.

 

When Sergei Akhromeyev visited the U.S., he said something to the effect of: "I know your secret weapon.  It is the non-commissioned officer corps!"

 

Alex

[harvy5]

13 minutes ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

 

Out of curiosity, were you a commissioned officer or an enlisted man?  

 

In the USAF, a Crew Chief is a Senior Airman or Staff Sergeant.

 

When Sergei Akhromeyev visited the U.S., he said something to the effect of: "I know your secret weapon.  It is the non-commissioned officer corps!"

 

Alex

I started as a 18y old soldier, later a master sergeant. After graduating on university, they made me an officer.

In the Cold War time, Crew Chief was a officer,that changed in the early 90's.

[Sabrejet]

On 21/10/2020 at 14:39, NDB16 said:

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!

 

I just got info back from a Russian pilot that I could ask the question - through a friend, through a friend and Rob is the winner: the dots indicate the necessity to inspect the bays: a yellow dot is for a pre-flight inspection, green and blue for checks in between flights on the same day and red for end of day inspections. Knowing that some panels have to be opened by removing a ton of screws, such as on the nose of the Su-24 MR, that needs a lot of time and discipline!

 

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

Nic

 

In my experience we'd read the book (T.O., A.P. or job card) until we knew the job and thereafter didn't need to refer much to the paperwork except for part numbers and torque loadings (and eventually you remember those too!). Coloured dots sound like they would be aimed at semi-skilled labour.