Mission model paints - help

[Fraz97]

Hello, me again.

 

I am having difficulty with Mission model Paints. I have concluded that it's down to user error. I recently tested some Mission Models paint along with their thinner. I followed the instructions carefully on how to thin them, but I couldn't get good coverage, it came out wet and had poor adhesion and remained wet on the surface. I may have used too much thinner, but I find different people using different ratios, which is only confusing me further. MMP recommend 10 parts paint to 1 part thinner and 1 part poly. So I put in 30 parts paint to 3 parts thinner, but didn't solve the problem. When I purchased the paints and thinner, the Poly additive was out of stock, so I was forced to go without it but now I feel that that is part of the problem and now I have purchased a bottle of it.

 

Is it just the lack of Poly additive that is causing the problem or is it just me overthinning it or spraying too close?

 

Just for the record I use a 0.2mm Harder and Steenbeck Infinity CRplus and I was spraying at 10-15 psi (MM recommends 10-15psi for their paints.)

 

I've seen people using these paints and they have nothing but praise for them and I've seen them work well on other videos. It is clearly me that is the problem but I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

Thanks

Edited October 14, 2020 by Fraz97

[Shin]

ah @Fraz97, I see you're already on the Mission Models paint train - so you can ignore my comment about the thinner your varnish post. 

 

Sorry you're having trouble with the paint though! Let's see if I can help: 

1. Are you having the same problems with multiple colors, or just tried one?

2. Have you shaken the paint thoroughly? I find if it sits for a while it really separates out. 

3. The mixing ratios from the FAQ on their website are good starting points. I personally need to use more thinner than they recommend for most paints to get a good spray from my airbrush. I'm at 10/4 or 10/5 paint/thinner as a starting point for most of their colors. If it's coming out too wet then you may need less thinner, but you're already at a really low ratio...

4. You mention you may be too close. Perhaps just try backing up and see if that helps? 

5. In nearly three years of painting with them I haven't ever had adhesion problems nor the paint not drying out. Can I ask what you're shooting onto? Primed plastic, bare plastic?

6. One thing you could play with is your pressure. Try increasing or decreasing it, hobby compressor numbers may not be entirely accurate in terms of what the dial shows. 

 

Also the Poly is optional - it shouldn't affect shooting performance of your paint much. Also a warning - it goes bad, just clumps up. Some folks have resorted to storing it in their fridge when not in use, but I guess it depends where you live. My last bottle clumped up after about 11 months, which is a decent run, but others have reported it going bad after a couple months. 

[Fraz97]

22 minutes ago, Shin said:

ah @Fraz97, I see you're already on the Mission Models paint train - so you can ignore my comment about the thinner your varnish post. 

 

Sorry you're having trouble with the paint though! Let's see if I can help: 

1. Are you having the same problems with multiple colors, or just tried one?

2. Have you shaken the paint thoroughly? I find if it sits for a while it really separates out. 

3. The mixing ratios from the FAQ on their website are good starting points. I personally need to use more thinner than they recommend for most paints to get a good spray from my airbrush. I'm at 10/4 or 10/5 paint/thinner as a starting point for most of their colors. If it's coming out too wet then you may need less thinner, but you're already at a really low ratio...

4. You mention you may be too close. Perhaps just try backing up and see if that helps? 

5. In nearly three years of painting with them I haven't ever had adhesion problems nor the paint not drying out. Can I ask what you're shooting onto? Primed plastic, bare plastic?

6. One thing you could play with is your pressure. Try increasing or decreasing it, hobby compressor numbers may not be entirely accurate in terms of what the dial shows. 

 

Also the Poly is optional - it shouldn't affect shooting performance of your paint much. Also a warning - it goes bad, just clumps up. Some folks have resorted to storing it in their fridge when not in use, but I guess it depends where you live. My last bottle clumped up after about 11 months, which is a decent run, but others have reported it going bad after a couple months. 

 

1. I tried two colours and have similar problems. But they oddly started drying but very slowly.

2. I did shake the paint, but probably not very long.

3. I might try other ratios (I saw one YT using 6 part thinner to 30 part paint and another using 20 part paint to 5 part thinner)

4. I could try that. I am just terrible at maintaining distance lol.

5. Well I did start doing it on bare plastic which obviously was a bad idea but I then did it on already painted surfaces and had some problems as it was too thin or too wet. But it seems to be drying, very slowly though. (I am using a test sample on a spare piece of plastic rather than an actual project)

6. Again I will try that and see what happens.

 

I live in Scotland so it's always cold up here so probably not ideal for me maybe. Also while the Poly is optional it does seem that the best results use it so I think it's worth a shot.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Shin]

sounds good, hope mixing up a few things gets you to a usable work flow. For testing sake it may be beneficial to try it on a nicely primed test piece, just to eliminate some external factors. 

 

Here's a pretty good resource: https://modelpaintsol.com/builds/eduard-72-f6f-hellcat-night-fighter-7079 John at Model Paint Solutions has build articles and he mostly uses Mission Model paints. His articles have ratios and notes on his mixes that he uses. Just note that he has recently switched from the Poly to Mission Models Clear Primer (I think the Hellcat is one of his first articles using this mix). But look at some of his older ones to see his ratios when using Poly. 

[louiex2]

I've been using Mission Model Paints for several years. I love using them and they are my go to paint, followed by Vallejo then Tamiya.  I can't add much to what @Shin has recommended and it is good that you are following their directions.  I have heard too many complaints about MMP from people who try to use them the way they use other hobby paints and that approach will not work work with MMP.  You almost have to ignore much of what you "know" about using model paints in general as MMPs are a very different formula.   

 

MMP take some time and experimentation to find what works for you.  The Poly will help and especially when using an airbrush, MMP seems to be sensitive to humidity.  I was living in Arizona when I first started using MMP, then moved to Utah, then Idaho and am now in California.  In each location I had to tweak my ratios a bit to find out what worked best.  Also, as Shin mentioned, the ratios can vary with the paint color.  I'd suggest keeping a notebook or list of the ratios as you try them and with a bit of experimentation you will find what works.   Keep trying, especially once you get the Poly, and after you learn to work with them you will not go back.  John Miller at Model Paint Solutions is friends with Jon Timken, the founder of Mission Model Paints, so he has a lot of good insight to MMP and has posted some great videos at the MPS website on using the paint.

 

Finally, a note of caution about the Poly additive.  Store it in the refrigerator if you are not going to be using it for more than a few days and it will keep much longer.  If subject to big swings in temperature, it will thicken and become unusable.  For more details on this phenomena, just do a web search.   

 

Lou in California

Edited October 14, 2020 by louiex2

[Fraz97]

16 hours ago, louiex2 said:

I've been using Mission Model Paints for several years. I love using them and they are my go to paint, followed by Vallejo then Tamiya.  I can't add much to what @Shin has recommended and it is good that you are following their directions.  I have heard too many complaints about MMP from people who try to use them the way they use other hobby paints and that approach will not work work with MMP.  You almost have to ignore much of what you "know" about using model paints in general as MMPs are a very different formula.   

 

MMP take some time and experimentation to find what works for you.  The Poly will help and especially when using an airbrush, MMP seems to be sensitive to humidity.  I was living in Arizona when I first started using MMP, then moved to Utah, then Idaho and am now in California.  In each location I had to tweak my ratios a bit to find out what worked best.  Also, as Shin mentioned, the ratios can vary with the paint color.  I'd suggest keeping a notebook or list of the ratios as you try them and with a bit of experimentation you will find what works.   Keep trying, especially once you get the Poly, and after you learn to work with them you will not go back.  John Miller at Model Paint Solutions is friends with Jon Timken, the founder of Mission Model Paints, so he has a lot of good insight to MMP and has posted some great videos at the MPS website on using the paint.

 

Finally, a note of caution about the Poly additive.  Store it in the refrigerator if you are not going to be using it for more than a few days and it will keep much longer.  If subject to big swings in temperature, it will thicken and become unusable.  For more details on this phenomena, just do a web search.   

 Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have been following their instructions. But I have managed to get it working. It just took a bit longer to dry than other people have managed to get it working. This time it was on a primed surface which certainly helped a lot. It is just lack of experience with MMP that is causing the problem. I knew that their formula was different to others so I was well aware that it may be a case of trial and error. 

 

I will still keep my other paints just to be safe, (AK Real colours, Vallejo, Gunze and Tamiya as I like them (especially Gunze and Tamiya) and they have colours that MMP don't have. I only use Vallejo for miniature figures), but I would like to try to keep to acrylics as much as possible due to them being less toxic (except for maybe AK's Real colours as they are the smelliest, but they have some colours that the others do not have so I kinda have to use them).

 

As for temperature, I live in Scotland and I do my models in the garage and the temperature rarely changes here. except in some extreme cases where it may be too hot or too cold. But I may follow your advice just to be safe. 

 

Thanks for the advice, I think I might be getting the hand of it, but I think I will wait for the Poly to come and then try again. I'll try and use the notebook when I can.

[Fraz97]

18 hours ago, Shin said:

sounds good, hope mixing up a few things gets you to a usable work flow. For testing sake it may be beneficial to try it on a nicely primed test piece, just to eliminate some external factors. 

 I tired the paint on a surface that already had paint on it and it did perform better, but dried a bit slower than expected. But it did dry to a smooth and solid finish, so it does work. It's merely lack of experience on my part. Thanks for the tips.

[Fraz97]

Right so I haven't got the Poly yet so I gave it another go. I found some spare Spitfire wings to test out the paints. This time I properly primed them before trying out the paints. 

 

I am happy to say that they work properly now. But I have noticed that some dried quicker than others (but not by much). The Colours I tried were RAF Dark Earth, RAF Dark Green and RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb. I thinned Dark Earth 20 parts paint to 5 parts thinner and it seemed to spray nicely, but I built it up in nice thin layers and it dried to the touch in 20-30 minutes (about right). The Dunkelgelb was a bit thinner and came out a bit too thin and required a little bit longer to dry. I tired a new ration for the Dark Green (20 paint to 4 part thinner) and this started well, but then it started clogging up the airbrush, so obviously this required a bit more thinner. But overall the results were decent and I'm happy now. 

 

However, I'm not a big fan of the shades of RAF Dark Green and RAL 7028. RAF Dark Green looks too greyish to me and RAL 7028 looks a bit too much like a darker version of Tamiya XF-55 Deck Tan. Apart from that, the paints have started to work now. Just needs a bit more practice and experience. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Fraz97

[Shin]

glad you're on your way and having success. RAF Dark Earth & Dark Green were actually the first MM paints I tried through airbrush. Regarding color accuracy obviously everything is in the eye of the beholder, but you can mix paints with ease (and drops makes it relatively consistent) and of course primer color effects the overall effect as well. 

 

With thinner paint you could try shooting from a touch further away in slightly lighter coats, this could help speed up drying time as well. I know MM suggests light wet coats for best adhesion, but I haven't had problems with using the lighter drier coats yet (painting with masks for example). 

[louiex2]

As far as drying time, John Miller recommended using a hair dryer to speed the drying time before respraying.  I've tried this and it works a treat.   Be sure to set the hair dryer to the lowest heat setting and keep the dryer moving.  Once I am completely done with painting, let the model sit for several days to make certain all the layers have "gassed out" before handing, but I think most modelers do this anyway.   

 

As far as colours, it is easy to mix custom MMP shades.  Just keep track of the ratios and don't forget the amount of Poly and thinner.  Once I find a colour mix I like, I write it down in a notebook and also on the instruction sheet.

 

Please keep us posted on your results.

 

Lou in California

[Torbjörn Hanö]

I really liked them when I first bought them, but their shelf life is unfortunately quite short. They get very thick in the bottle and thinning them doesn't help much. They are also very prone to clogging the airbrush, although I have cleaned it meticulously.

[Charles Campbell]

Has anyone tried putting decals on mission models metallic paints?  I sprayed a model that was primed with

mission models white primer at about 15 psi.  Wet coats.  No problem with tip dry.  I added 2 drops thinner to about 10 drops paint.

after a week I was able to wipe all the metallic paint off with a paper towel dipped in water.  Help.

thanks in advance

[dromia]

I just love Mission Models paint, the pigment quality has to be one of if not the best around.

 

I am a dedicated enamels user but Mission Models has some complimentary qualities that means it fits in well with my enamel practices.

 

Mission Models paint is quirky though and I had a long development curve to master its properties.

 

The first thing to MM paint heaven is to avoid contamination with other chemicals such as IPA, lacquer thinner, naphtha and the like. this means separate, brushes, airbrushes, painting tools etc.

 

I have three sets of painting tools now for MM paints, enamels and lacquers.

 

This has not only improved MMp use but has also improved my use of lacquers and enamels. The lack of cross contamination across all three mediums means that with the airbrushes especially cleaning and spraying is far less fraught.

 

Regarding the "toughness" of MM paints finish the trick here is to hit the paint with a hair dryer to "cure" it as soon as the paint has been laid down.

 

Although MM paints are not the easiest paints to understand, once you do they are the most controllable and versatile paints on the market and the pigments  well the best there is.