Soviet Spitfire Mk.IXc

[Artie]

Morning all...!!!

Been given an ICM Spitfire Mk.IXc with soviet markings, but came without the colour guide.

We're them repainted with russian colours, ir left in the original British ones?

TIA and greetings from sunny Tenerife...

[Giorgio N]

What's the catalogue number of your kit ? With that info you can find the instructions on this website, see for example this soviet IXe:

 

https://www.super-hobby.it/products/Spitfire-LF.IXE-WWII-Soviet-Air-Force-Fighter.html

 

In general Soviet Spitfires retained the original RAF scheme, at least initially. Soviet paints may have been used for touch-ups or to eliminate markings like the rear fuselage Sky band that was present on many aircraft at the time of delivery. Pictures generally show no such markings but also show them very neatly cancelled, so it is also possible that the same British paints were used.

[Kjetil Åkra]

I think they were initially left in RAF colours, but at some point at least some of them were repainted. Take a look at this article on Soviet two-seat conversions, for instance.

 

http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/trainers/trainers_spit_uti.html

 

[Artie]

Thanks a lot. Will check It carefully...!!

[fishplanebeer]

Not quite that relevant but I know some of the earlier Vb's sent to Russia retained the sky tail band and spinner along with their standard RAF camouflage, so perhaps there may have been some similar such examples with the later IX's as well?

 

The excellent 'Spotlight On' book of the Spitfire V by Robert Grudzien shows Spit Vb EP210 in such a scheme when flying with 57 GIAP (Guards Unit) in early 1943. Of note is the existence of the aerial wire as those Vb's shipped to Russia were only fitted with HF radios but not sure if the same also applied to the IX's as well?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Colin.

 

Ps. happy to scan and share the page/pic but sadly I have no idea how to insert picture files into a post

[modelldoc]

Russian planes, all is possible, 

 

original color, green, or different markings.

 

like that:

 

The Spitfire VB, a Airfix Club kit:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/15221637401/in/photolist-2jxdFFm-2jp8Bm4-2jhVZSQ-2iwgH2A-2iqNLw5-2iBCabj-2hAPHx6-2hWdhrk-2jdRQYu-2ifndLU-2ik66Rd-2hGZciN-2i9UUUn-2hxfPBP-2iJcmFD-2htWrHE-2hPdZhW-reMoPf-qkj9AD-qkj23T-reMgJd-pc5Sua-oQtbML-ny3Ayb-q9y77U-97HHsS-qqWnoi

 

or the Mk IX, with new markings over the former roundels:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/49442766258/in/photolist-2jxdFFm-2jp8Bm4-2jhVZSQ-2iwgH2A-2iqNLw5-2iBCabj-2hAPHx6-2hWdhrk-2jdRQYu-2ifndLU-2ik66Rd-2hGZciN-2i9UUUn-2hxfPBP-2iJcmFD-2htWrHE-2hPdZhW-reMoPf-qkj9AD-qkj23T-reMgJd-pc5Sua-oQtbML-ny3Ayb-q9y77U-97HHsS-qqWnoi

 

or the Russian trainer version:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/49569317176/in/photolist-2jxdFFm-2jp8Bm4-2jhVZSQ-2iwgH2A-2iqNLw5-2iBCabj-2hAPHx6-2hWdhrk-2jdRQYu-2ifndLU-2ik66Rd-2hGZciN-2iJcmFD-2htWrHE-2hPdZhW-2i9UUUn-2hxfPBP-reMoPf-qkj9AD-qkj23T

 

modelldoc

 

[Troy Smith]

12 hours ago, Artie said:

Morning all...!!!

Been given an ICM Spitfire Mk.IXc with soviet markings, but came without the colour guide.

We're them repainted with russian colours, ir left in the original British ones?

TIA and greetings from sunny Tenerife...

Like nearly all lend Lease types supplied to the VVS, they retained their delivery colours until post war. 

 

AFAIK, the VVS got Spitfire IXe not IXc.

 

ICM did two boxings,  a RAF camo one,

and a post war VVS one.

 

I've not seen photos to clearly back either scheme, 

There is a very blurred photo showing a Spitfire with a lighting bolt that maybe the one above,  and there are photos of lighning bolts on RAF camo, but no codes visible

 

this shows IXe's in RAF camo

 

 

 

this is a very famous image, 

 

the 2nd Spitfire is 78, just the prop blade in front cuts the 78 like this,  7/8

this is a profile, 

the white or silver tails are confirmed

see

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=1683.0

 

 

 

Photos are sadly rare, as they ended up being used by the PVO (air defence units), and they had a lot, around 1000 Spitfire IX

In 1945 27 out 81 PVO units flew Spitfires.

Despite being Lend Lease, some units flew Spitfire until 1947-48.

It seems, in the summer of 1945, many/most VVS aircraft were repainted,  maybe to keep ground crews busy.

I know of a photo of a 1948,  Mk.IX in probably VVS Green over pale blue. (AMT-4 over AMT-7, or the metal finish versions) 

this one

Spit vert no2_zps8sciyndv by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

and this, again, post war, with a repaint. 

 

Hopefully in time, some more VVS Spitfire IX photos will emerge,  given they had 1000+ of them,  one problem is this, the PVO units were 2nd line, ironically so it was harder for photographers to get permission to get permission to photograph them.

The hope is private photos, and a lot more images are becoming available on Russian sites.... 

 

54 minutes ago, modelldoc said:

 

or the Mk IX, with new markings over the former roundels:

NO. 

The markings were painted out, by the British, with British paint, before delivery.  

This was standard practice. 

this is a Vb before delivery at Abadan in Iran

spitfire roundel paint out Abadan 43 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

this is a very famous image

 

if you look carefully you can see the fresh paint.

Note, VVS standard star position, was vertical fin, fuselage, underwing

 

British Lend Lease star postion, underwing, fuselage and upperwing. 

 

This is commonly seen on Hurricanes.  

see

https://lend-lease.net/articles-en/spitfires-over-the-kuban/

There is even films...(I just found this)

 

 

 

http://www.redbanner.co.uk/History/trainers/trainers_spit_uti.html

This is Erik Pilawskii, treat with caution, note the 'with areas of appliqué where required to cover the various modification work and ex-RAF markings."

I really cannot stress enough in general THIS IS FICTION.    Pilawskii is well known for being demonstrably wrong about VVS markings about 50% of the time.  

As is common, only profiles.   The only VVS 2 seater UTI conversion photo I know of is this one

which while repainted, looks to be one overall colour.

 

 

There are very few  photos of ex Lend Lease types in wartime VVS service where extensive overpainting is obvious.   

 

a very few that maybe, and that is just a maybe,  have VVS overpaiting, and the reason these are documented is they are at the NII VVS test centre,  so are initial types sent without formal process .  and also photographed, and the photos are more widely used as type documentary images.... creating a vicious cycle of misinformation.  Or, as they are for evaluation, the marking over-paints were done quickly by the British.

 

 

eg this

Spitfire HF Mk IX TA810 during tests at the NII VVS (Soviet AF research establishment). Note the plain red star applied such that it is ‘straight’ at ground attitude. (via P. Butowski and W. Matusiak)

 

but, note, the roundel overpaint maybe just Ocean Grey, as also the fin flash.  And would a VVS painter apply a star so badly?  Also, at this stage

TA810 HFIX CBAF M70 33MU 9-12-44 W R Grace 26-2-45 Hapmat 20-3-45 USSR

the VVS had been using white or silver with a thin red outline.    

 

 Anyway,  this is from the test centre.

as is this

with some Dark Green only overspray

SM622 LFIX CBAF M66 33MU 29-11-44 82MU 10-12-44 J D Yeagar 20-12-44 Hapmat 9-1-45 USSR

 

Some of the repainting before delivery may not be very well matched,  but it's not VVS paint.

That overpainting before delivery I suspect has some formal basis, note that US types supplied Lend Lease also usually had end use markings applied before delivery.

In many cases, applied at the factory. 

 

Many profiles show this VVS colour overpainting of British markings  and it, well, my take on profiles is below..... 

[Artie]

Excellent info....thank you very much. I'll use British colours then. 

BEST regards