New Acrylic Varnishes

[Fraz97]

Hi folks. 

 

I am thinking of getting a new Acrylic based varnish for my models and I am currently stuck between two. The first is Mission Models and I have seen their tutorials and they look great. The other that I have seen good reviews for is Winsor & Newton Galeria Acrylic varnishes. However, for the W&N Galeria Varnishes what would be the correct thinner to varnish ratio. I have read that they work with Tamiya X-20A Acrylic thinners and I have read that they should work with ultimate thinners too. Does anyone (preferably anyone who has used W&N) know the right ratio for the varnishes.

 

Another point is that I am starting to use Tamiya Mark Fit Strong as a decal solution and I was wondering if it was safe to use Mark Fit Strong on top of either Mission Models varnish or W&N Galeria varnish. I have read that it should be safe, but I would like be sure before I try it out for real. (I could always use a test sample first.) 

[Shin]

hey @Fraz97, are you tied to those two brands? LONG STORY SHORT: I've heard many success stories with the Mission Models and W&N clears, but I think there are easier to use and more consistent options out there. 

 

Let me preface this by saying I paint 90% with Mission Model paints, so I'm decently familiar with their system. I own their three clear coats and have had decent results with their gloss, mixed results with their semi-gloss, and no good results with their flat. I fully acknowledge my troubles are probably user error and can be rectified with more practice, but quite frankly when it comes to clear coats I want something that works 100% of the time with no fuss. The gloss is the only one I could recommend from the bunch from personal experience.

 

For ease of applicability and result, for gloss I use Tamiya X-22 thinned with Mr. Color Leveling thinner (though you can use X-20A thinner if you want to stay acrylic). I have also tried the highly recommended acrylic Alcad Aqua Gloss, and that sprays really well. The best part of Aqua Gloss is you shoot straight from the bottle, no thinning necessary. I still use it for smaller parts or things like cockpits, but don't use it as much as my regular gloss after it interacted with something else I put over it and it cracked.

 

For flat I use Tamiya XF-86 thinned with X-20A. This leaves a very light sheen, I think great for most aircraft. If I'm going for dead flat (armor for example) I use AK Interactive Ultra Matte. I also recently got VMS flat and that worked really well on the first project I tried it on. I could not get the Mission Models flat to work at all for me. John from Model Paint Solutions suggested multiple light mist coats shot from a distance with drying time between each layer (the same thing the MMP videos show). Quite frankly I ain't got time for that, give me something that'll work with one or two normally applied coats. 

 

The W&N Galeria flat - this was the very first flat I bought, even before I got an airbrush. It brushed on OK. My first few projects using it via airbrush actually went fine with a good looking flat finish, but it remained tacky for way longer than I thought it should, and dust would start getting stuck to it. I found this is a persistent complaint about the W&N. That said I know a lot of people swear by this, and maybe a different thinner or thinner ratio would have helped me (I forgot what I thinned with, probably water and/or IPA). 

 

Again these are my own observations, looking forward to hearing what other people have experienced.

 

DECALS: I've applied decals directly onto Mission Model paints using Micro Set/Sol, Mr. Mark Setter/Softer, and Solvaset after the paint has had ample time to dry/cure with no ill-effects. The gloss also handles them fine, as I assume it would the Tamiya, as long as you don't let the hotter solvents pool. I have no experience decaling on W&N products. 

 

hope this helps!

[dromia]

I use the W&N Galleria "varnishes" and find them excellent with none of the problems described.

 

I do not thin them and pour direct from the bottle into the cup.

 

Spray as though 'twas Stynylrez and you should be fine at least this is with my experience.

 

Galleria "varnish" is not harmed by my transfer setting and solvent solutions, white vinegar in water and Solvaset, IPA will remove it promptly though.

[Fraz97]

7 hours ago, dromia said:

I use the W&N Galleria "varnishes" and find them excellent with none of the problems described.

 

I do not thin them and pour direct from the bottle into the cup.

 

Spray as though 'twas Stynylrez and you should be fine at least this is with my experience.

 

Galleria "varnish" is not harmed by my transfer setting and solvent solutions, white vinegar in water and Solvaset, IPA will remove it promptly though.

 Thanks for that, but others suggest thinning it too. But have not given a precise ratio. But if it works just like this then it sounds like it should be ok.

[Fraz97]

10 hours ago, Shin said:

 

For flat I use Tamiya XF-86 thinned with X-20A. This leaves a very light sheen, I think great for most aircraft. If I'm going for dead flat (armor for example) I use AK Interactive Ultra Matte. I also recently got VMS flat and that worked really well on the first project I tried it on. I could not get the Mission Models flat to work at all for me. John from Model Paint Solutions suggested multiple light mist coats shot from a distance with drying time between each layer (the same thing the MMP videos show). Quite frankly I ain't got time for that, give me something that'll work with one or two normally applied coats. 

 

 

Thanks for the reply

 

I am not tied to either and I happily use Gunze and Tamiya products. I just heard mixed results with Tamiya's clear coats, but heard great things about W&N, I haven't bought anything yet but it does seem that MM clear coats may be a bit of an issue, I was personally leaning towards the W&N products, but I do have Tamiya products if all doesn't go well. I have seen the Inner Nerd on YouTube using Mission models Clear Coat Gloss and it seemed to work well with him, but he only used the gloss coat. That and a lot of modellers in the Airfix Magazine use W&N varnishes and to good effect.

 

Personally though I don't mind waiting for coats to apply as I normally leave them to dry for a long time anyways just to be safe.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[dromia]

The W&N instructions say nothing about thinning, just apply in thin coats.

 

Clean equipment with water.

[Shin]

2 hours ago, Fraz97 said:

I just heard mixed results with Tamiya's clear coats

I think the biggest complaint I've heard about Tamiya's flat (XF-86, not X-21 flat base mind you) is that it doesn't "flatten" as much as people think a flat should, there is still a light sheen. But I've also never had it "frost" on me either like other acrylic flats have, which is one of the biggest positives.

 

But yeah, sounds like Mission gloss and/or W&N gloss & matt may be a good starting point for you. Regarding dromia's note above about the W&N instructions not mentioning thinning, I'm 80% sure that's because the instructions are written for brush painting over more traditional mediums (canvas art) as a finishing coat. It sounds like dromia has gotten it to work straight out of the bottle with his setup and would be worth trying once you get it, but most people who I've seen using it mention thinning it with different materials. 

 

I almost forgot - another thing to consider for the Mission gloss is that you'll need their thinner. It wouldn't be an issue if you have other Mission Model products (paint, primer), but to buy their proprietary thinner just for your gloss coat may be overkill, when other glosses can be thinned using more universal mediums like water, IPA, X-20A, or lacquer thinner.  That said, maybe good results with their gloss would be a gateway drug into the rest of their line, which I enjoy immensely. 

 

good luck, would be interested to hear your results once you've had a go with whichever you choose. 

[dromia]

Just as a test I have just put some satin, it was the first to hand through my Iwata Custom Micron-B (.18mm needle) at 9psi, air volume valve just open. Which is my normal setting for that air brush for enamels.

 

The Galleria went through the brush just fine, good atomisation, leaving a nice even wet coat.

 

So that would indicate that perhaps thinning is not as necessary as might be postulated.

 

Normally I spray at around 25psi through a Creos PS-290 with a .5mm needle as I am usually covering large areas.

 

It behaves almost like a clear Stynylrez in my experience so I have just applied the advised Stynylrez method.

[dromia]

To clarify it is the Galleria that I normally spray at around 25psi through a Creos PS-290 with a .5mm needle as I am usually covering large areas.

 

Sorry for the extra post but the edit button has disappeared, must be an up grade casualty.

[Shin]

thanks @dromia, I'll certainly defer to your experience as you use this stuff regularly, I'm just parroting what I remember reading from others using it as well as my own (albeit brief) usage of the W&N matt. Unthinned is nice, one less step to worry about. 

 

3 minutes ago, dromia said:

Sorry for the extra post but the edit button has disappeared, must be an up grade casualty.

 

yeah this has caused a lot of confusion, but it's actually moved. In the top right of your post you should see the three dots, that'll bring up a small menu, one of the options is to edit your post. 

[dromia]

Thank you for the explanation.

 

What is it with these computer people and their unintelligible hieroglyphs, how on earth does three dots mean edit?!?!?!?!

 

To me three dots means the letter "S".

 

After being an early internet adopter it is no wonder I am on a trajectory to reduce my use to nothing, the whole internet and the digital world has gone to hell on a hurley.

[John Laidlaw]

4 hours ago, Fraz97 said:

I just heard mixed results with Tamiya's clear coats

 

I use W&N and Tamiya - W&N is excellent when applied in very thin coats (otherwise I've found it can take a long time to cure). XF-35 (semi-gloss) and XF-86 need to be stirred thoroughly, and by that I mean for several minutes, at least for the first outing. Subsequent uses still need thorough stirring, but only for tens of seconds. The other thing is thin coats, followed by a minute or two of waiting, followed by further thin coats as needed. The XF-86 gives a lovely and subdued smooth flat finish.

 

But to each, their own. I hope you find one that works consistently for you.

[dromia]

Just to update, when I checked this morning the satin galleria sprayed as described above was dry to touch and had as nice and even satin finish as one should expect. This stuff has good self levelling properties from my experience and definitely doesn't need thinning for any application I might be using it for.