Vallejo Model Air and flow improver

[Sharknose]

Suspect it has been covered but I'm struggling to find easily. 

 

What's a good ratio for spraying Vallejo Model Air with flow improver. I normally use Tamiya and get on well but giving vallejo a go.

 

I have been putting 1 to 2 drops of flow imp to say 6 - 8 drops paint. Sprays really well for a few mins then starts to clog a bit, and even adding more FI it doesnt stop the tip clogging. Am I not adding enough in the first place?

 

I tried to change tactics and used vallejo thinners and no flow improver, pt to thin ratio about 7:3, felt way too thin, paintballing splatters on the airframe.

 

Should I combine the two, lower ratio thinners and flow improver?

 

Any advice welcome.

[lasermonkey]

I see lots of posts complaining that flow improver doesn't help with nozzle clog and it's not surprising. Flow improver is designed to break up the surface tension of acrylic paint, helping to to flow smoothly onto your "canvas" of choice when brushing. What you need is an acrylic retarder, which slows down the drying time of acrylic paint long enough to prevent it drying on your airbrush's nozzle. Even with a retarder, you will probably still encounter nozzle clog from time to time. It's part of life with water-based acrylics. If you have a small dish with a hot solvent (such as cellulose thinners) handy that you can dip a brush into to clean the nozzle from time to time, that will help.

 

I use Liquitex Slo Dry retarder which has worked well with Polly Scale, Aeromaster, Lifecolour, Xtracrylix, Tamiya, etc. Personally, I couldn't stand Vallejo. Way too fussy, way too fragile and no adhesion to speak of. I have no idea why anyone puts up with the stuff, to be honest!

[Sharknose]

Cheers and I would agree on durability, with that I am not overly impressed by the resilience of vallejo. It is very easily scratched, much more so than tamiya. I like the colours though, I specifically bought their Russian Jets kit to paint up an F15, as I get bored with standard schemes but I'm considering this will be my only venture.

[HoolioPaulio]

I put up with Vallejo, because its what my LHS stocked when I got back into it a few years back, and I need to be shooting acrylics (or anything with non-toxic or flammable fumes).  I generally get on OK with it, but tip dry is a problem for me too.  I just have the needle exposed and a piece of kitchen roll primed with AB cleaner and try to wipe the tip regular to pre-empt it.  Some colours are worse than others.  I found AB thinner more useful than the flow improver.  Going to try the retarder, but I suspect it will negate my main advantage of the quick dry times which are very useful for me, between working and running a family (don't tell the wife I said I run it ) I have to make the most of my time.  It's handy to be able to apply 2-3 different colours in a session, even maskinf is fine in that time usually, apart from the metals which are extra delicate (see below)

 

I agree, the Vallejo paints are delicate, but I found them more resilient when sprayed over Vallejo primer, but still damageable.  I clear coat with Micro Flat/Satin/Gloss for a bit more resilience now, which was a lucky by product of finding a way to stop Micro Set/Sol decal setting solutions from staining bare paint when applying decals.  Also it was the first clear coat I was able to apply fairly nicely from the AB.  Good enough to match the rest of my work anyway .

 

If I could I'd probably switch to Tamiya now, I have a few of them for special jobs (clear colours mainly), and they are nice.  But 1. I've built up a fair few Vallejo colours now, and 2. I'd have to visit my LHS a lot less and get them on line.  And do love a natter, or to ask for tips, or simply 'accidentally' pick up a kit that takes my fancy while I'm there.

 

In short, you have to work hard with Vallejo, but I'm getting a lot better with them.  The darker colours, and aluminium (my main metal colour) used to clog the nozzle a lot.  The dark colours get clumps forming in them, though less so since I started dropping one of these in each paint pot.  But I also have an old pair of the wifes laddered tights (honest, they weren't mine), and I put a piece over the top of the bottle before pushing the dropper cap back in.  Seems to prevent pretty much all blockages now.

 

They are not the best, but with experimentation you can make them work if you need to.

 

On a side note though, I love Vallejo liquid mask for canopies etc 👍

[Giorgio N]

Today Vallejo paints make for almost 50% of my paint stash and I really spray them a lot. I am another use of the Liquitex retarder and works pretty well. It does prolong the drying time excessively, the paint is still ready for a second coat in say 20 minutes or less.

In addition I try to prevent the paint from drying on the tip by first spraying a few drops of Vallejo's own airbrush cleaner, so to leave a film over the tip.

In any case I keep a small brush ready that I use to clean the tip with the same airbrush cleaner if I see that paint is starting to clog the nozzle. This way I manage to complete painting a 1/72 scale model with no problem.

 

[Sharknose]

Interesting. I may have to give that a try, thanks for the help

[Tojo72]

I never used flow improver with Model Air,but it works wonders with Model Color and Panzer Aces.I have zero dry tip when spraying.I do 10 paint 5 thinner 3 flow improver.No formula works for everyone,but this one works for me

[Sharknose]

After spending large parts of today swapping between 0.2 and 0.4 needles, flow imp and cleaner mix, paint only etc etc I have one thing to say.

 

RRRRRAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH

 

Anyone wanna buy some model air paints? 😬

[Matthew1974]

Up until about 2008, I used Mr. Hobby Aqueous paints as my go to.  Great range, thinned easily with isopropyl alcohol, and were highly durable.  However they stopped importing the line to the States and I switch to Tamiya and was generally happy, except for their limited range of colors...  Four years ago I switched to Vallejo Model Air and get on okay with them, except for as noted the tip dry and subpar durability.  For tip dry, I keep a soft brush ready with thinner and periodically sip down the tip; for durability I have found that giving them a couple days time to cure before masking and such helps.  Ironically, Model Color and Panzer Aces are great for brush painting and are very durable.  

[Sharknose]

As a delightful kick in the teeth for persisting, a big chunk of paint has lifted with masking tape. Paints been down for well over a week, you live and learn. 

 

Shakes fist at Vallejo....

[lasermonkey]

1 hour ago, Sharknose said:

As a delightful kick in the teeth for persisting, a big chunk of paint has lifted with masking tape. Paints been down for well over a week, you live and learn. 

 

Shakes fist at Vallejo....

Sadly, that had been my experience too. There were very few "true" water-based acrylics that I have tried that had any adhesion worth mentioning. Even with an enamel base, I found Vallejo to be far the worst for staying put. Whenever I see posts where people have had no issues I have to wonder what kind of witchcraft has been invoked!

 

I really wanted to like Vallejo, but nope.........

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Sharknose]

Aye. Colours are superb but not worth a damn if it makes the plastic like teflon.

[HoolioPaulio]

12 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

Whenever I see posts where people have had no issues I have to wonder what kind of witchcraft has been invoked!

 

Lol, so do I.  I wish I knew what I did so I could help others, but the only Vallejo paint I've had issues with tape over so far is the aluminium which is very delicate even to handle so it always get a top coat asap.  I did have issues at the beginning before I started using the Vallejo primers.  Now I just hit the plastic with a few coats of either light grey or black primer, let it dry for 20-30 minutes (if I'm in too much of a rush to leave it for a day), then colour goes on.  If it helps, I use Mr. Hobby's Mr. Masking Tape, which I love and it hasn't yet pulled any paint off for me.

[janneman36]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:46 PM, lasermonkey said:

I see lots of posts complaining that flow improver doesn't help with nozzle clog and it's not surprising. Flow improver is designed to break up the surface tension of acrylic paint, helping to to flow smoothly onto your "canvas" of choice when brushing. 

I have the Vallejo flow improver and the bottle says clearly that it is also intended to prevent clogging due to tip dry...used it even this evening and checked that statement on the bottle..

Used it on the Revell Aqua paint..and it showed improvement on the performance of this particular paint regarding clogging and tip dry😯
No fan of Vallejo either😬

 

cheers, Jan

[Werdna]

Got to say, I don't recognise the Vallejo issues.  I use mainly model air alongside a small number of Mig ammo colours and I've never had any issues with lifting or anything like that - and 99% of my paint jobs involve masking over existing layers.  I always paint onto a cleaned and primed surface though.

 

I usually spray model air straight from the bottle, or for longer jobs with around 20% thinners.  I tried flow improver, but it didn't seem to make any noticeable improvement or difference to anything I was doing.

 

Tip drying - it's just a 'fact of life' with acrylics, isn't it?  Either way, it's easily dealt with.  It's an inconvenience, but not a game changer.  From my own limited experience, the biggest impact on paint performance seems to be ambient temperature/humidity, which is largely out of our control anyway..

[Sharknose]

Maybe its equipment, a higher chance it is down to how each person operates I guess.

 

For me, I wont be reaching out for Model Air for some time, I cleaned the kit, primed it, thinly coated it, and putting the one masking issue aside, it's getting chipped left right and centre, even just positioning another part can have an impact. 

 

Whatever works for each person works, ModelAir just doesn't for me, which is a real shame given their great colour range.

 

[Matthew1974]

As far as Vallejo lifting when being masked, one thing that helps is using their proprietary polyurethane primers.  Mist the primer on in light coats until satisfied with the coverage and then give them enough time to cure.  For me in the southern US, during summer it can take a couple of weeks to fully cure given our extremely high humidity.  I then spray the model air in light misty coats thinned if need be with Vallejo’s thinner and flow improved, which again need to have enough time to cure before masking.  99.9% of the time I experience no paint lift when removing any masks.  That being said, I completely sympathize with those that don’t care for the brand.

[Bbdave]

I'm no expert but I have no issues spraying model air. This weekend I tried some mr color apparently it sprays a dream due to solvents etc. well it was a nightmare the airbrush constantly clogged no matter how thin the paint was I tried 50% and tried more and more thinner but still clogged so that'll be binned!. I guess it just depends what you get on with I know folks here will say they went to solvent and it sprays a dream but for me its the opposite I've no idea why.

 

Dave

[dogsbody]

I just found a small vial of Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver on a shelf in my room. I can on;y guess that I picked it up at least 6 months ago.

I only started using my airbrush in August and have used Tamiya with their X20A and their Retarder, along with some Gunze-Sangyo Aqueous with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.

All have work great and I haven't experienced any tip clogging or splatter with my Badger 150.

 

My question is: Is this Vallejo product of any use to me or just another write-off ( there have been a lot of those over the years ). As I don't have any Vallejo paints and do not have ready access and probably wouldn't get any anyways, could this be used for other acrylic paints, say Citadel brand paint?

 

 

 

Chris

[Giorgio N]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:59 PM, dogsbody said:

I just found a small vial of Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver on a shelf in my room. I can on;y guess that I picked it up at least 6 months ago.

I only started using my airbrush in August and have used Tamiya with their X20A and their Retarder, along with some Gunze-Sangyo Aqueous with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.

All have work great and I haven't experienced any tip clogging or splatter with my Badger 150.

 

My question is: Is this Vallejo product of any use to me or just another write-off ( there have been a lot of those over the years ). As I don't have any Vallejo paints and do not have ready access and probably wouldn't get any anyways, could this be used for other acrylic paints, say Citadel brand paint?

 

 

 

Chris

 

You can use the Vallejo product on all "water thinned" acrylics, like Lifecolor, Xtracrylics, Italeri and of course Citadel. It will not work with Tamiya or Gunze as these are a different "family".

I have sprayed Citadel paints before with no problem using products specifically meant for acrylics but from other brands and these paints when thinned properly spray pretty well. I wouldn't expect any problem using Vallejo's flow improver, although of course it's always better to test this first. With these products I always suggest to use small amounts, too much may lead to the paint never drying.. guess how I know...

[dogsbody]

8 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

You can use the Vallejo product on all "water thinned" acrylics, like Lifecolor, Xtracrylics, Italeri and of course Citadel. It will not work with Tamiya or Gunze as these are a different "family".

I have sprayed Citadel paints before with no problem using products specifically meant for acrylics but from other brands and these paints when thinned properly spray pretty well. I wouldn't expect any problem using Vallejo's flow improver, although of course it's always better to test this first. With these products I always suggest to use small amounts, too much may lead to the paint never drying.. guess how I know...

 

 

Thanks, Giorgio!

 

 

 

Chris

[Sharknose]

Having had more model air lift with tamiya masking tape today, I'm having a ceremonial bonfire for my vallejo stock this weekend*.

 

*actual events may differ from depiction.

[Torbjorn]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:26 AM, Matthew1974 said:

As far as Vallejo lifting when being masked, one thing that helps is using their proprietary polyurethane primers.  Mist the primer on in light coats until satisfied with the coverage and then give them enough time to cure.  For me in the southern US, during summer it can take a couple of weeks to fully cure given our extremely high humidity.  I then spray the model air in light misty coats thinned if need be with Vallejo’s thinner and flow improved, which again need to have enough time to cure before masking.  99.9% of the time I experience no paint lift when removing any masks.  That being said, I completely sympathize with those that don’t care for the brand.

 

Concur with everything said, but can add that I have the same experience also here in very dry conditions. The difference is quicker drying times I suppose (overnight). Even when I’ve been too lazy to use the polyurethane primer I seldom or never have paint lift.

 

Which makes me consider the other end: how do you apply and remove the tape? I usually never press the tape on, just gently lay it down (only burr the very edges a bit to avoid bleeding) and gently remove by slowly pulling horisontally (never lifting). It might be that the Vallejo paints require a gentler tape approach than more sturdy paints?

[janneman36]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:11 PM, Bbdave said:

I'm no expert but I have no issues spraying model air. This weekend I tried some mr color apparently it sprays a dream due to solvents etc. well it was a nightmare the airbrush constantly clogged no matter how thin the paint was I tried 50% and tried more and more thinner but still clogged so that'll be binned!. I guess it just depends what you get on with I know folks here will say they went to solvent and it sprays a dream but for me its the opposite I've no idea why.

 

Dave

Hello Dave probably the clogging of your mr color is due to the fact that your airbrush has remnants of the Vallejo paint in it..these two don’t go together very well in an airbrush and can result in clogging...
The mr color dissolves the remnants and after that they start to clog...(it is a very nice paint though,I love it)

I had this sometimes when my airbrush isn’t clean enough as I use al kinds of paints like enamels, waterbased and laquer ones...

 

cheers, Jan

[Steve Noble]

On 08/11/2020 at 13:11, Bbdave said:

I'm no expert but I have no issues spraying model air. This weekend I tried some mr color apparently it sprays a dream due to solvents etc. well it was a nightmare the airbrush constantly clogged no matter how thin the paint was I tried 50% and tried more and more thinner but still clogged so that'll be binned!. I guess it just depends what you get on with I know folks here will say they went to solvent and it sprays a dream but for me its the opposite I've no idea why.

 

Dave

Are you using Mr Color, the lacquer version, or Gunze Aqueous the acrylic version? I've been using the Mr Color for a few years now and it sprays a dream. I know if you use the wrong thinner with the aqueous it can be a real pain in the butt and clog like crazy. I only use the proper aqueous thinner.