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Back date Tamiya P-47D Razorback to a P-47C-5


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So after seeing a RFI on a P-47, now I need to build one.  Been a long time and I haven't gotten to try a Tamiya version yet.  Built two of the Hasegawa kits many years ago.  This will be a bit down the road yet, but wanted to get my ducks in a row prior to starting.  Always wanted to build this one after seeing the nose art! 🤣

So the old Aeromaster sheet says this is a P-47C-5.  Which seems to jive with Joe Baugher's list online.

 

50464098182_e80f96d51f_c.jpg

P-47C-5, 4 FG / 336 FS by Jim Fox, on Flickr

 

As you can see in the pic below it does seem to fit the P-47D-5 description.  Does NOT have the extra cowl flaps like the D's did.  Has the belly tank on in the photo so it either got the retro fit kit for the keel bulge or was one of them from the factory that had the change before being put into service.  Can't tell from the pic to well, but the C-5's were suppose to have Antenna Whips and not a mast.

 

50464098187_c89a7d23f2_c.jpg
Robert Lehman - 4 FG / 336 FS by Jim Fox, on Flickr

 

I was reading that the Tamiya P-47D Razorback is most likely a P-47D-20 variant.  So if that is the case it shouldn't be too big of a deal to back date.   This is my initial list;

 

1.  Fill 2 lower cowl flaps on each side of cowl including trimming back the vertical line where those two were.

2.  Fill antenna mast location and install a whip version

3.  Don't install the wing pylons (added starting at D-15)

 

Aeromaster instructions only gives a Thanks to Larry Davis for pictures and no other reference materials  I have not been able to find a pic of the port side anywhere.

 

The two questions I have remaining are the seat and wheels;

1.  Ultracast has several with harness, a regular and "square backed".  Not sure if that matters as we most likely don't have a picture to verify it. 

2.  Notice the wheel hubs have a star.  What color do you think is around it?  Maybe a Insignia Blue?

 

Any further thoughts on this back dated conversion?  THANKS!

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P-47C's apparently had a shallower bowel in addition to the lacking lower cowl flaps. 
Roll models did a full fuselage conversion kit: https://www.scalemates.com/no/kits/lone-star-models-lsm-40367-p-47c-conversion--1189972

 

But there were also some other conversion kits which only addresses certain items like the cowlings; http://acc.kitreview.com/p47cconvreviewse_1.htm and the shallow bowel as mentioned; https://www.kitlinx.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=LO48044&title=P-47C%2FEarly-D-Tankless-Belly-(TAM)

Luckily it seems many of these are still available through Kitlinx.com 

 

Good luck, will be watching this one 

 

 

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See the link to a photo of the LH side of the cowling.

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/19112

 

See this link for details on the production blocks that had the belly shackle and antenna fit on early C's

http://www.368thfightergroup.com/P-47-2.html

 

IIRC, the deeper keel was to cover the shackle attached to the belly for a fuel tank or store. I don't recall offhand which block number the shackle and deeper keel were fitted at the factory, but I do recall that early blocks could have had this fitted as a factory-supplied field kit, so you could always use a photo of the subject you want to model to confirm. I know I have that information somewhere in my references, and if nobody else supplies it, I can look for  it.

Mike

 

 

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

See the link to a photo of the LH side of the cowling.

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/19112

 

See this link for details on the production blocks that had the belly shackle and antenna fit on early C's

http://www.368thfightergroup.com/P-47-2.html

 

IIRC, the deeper keel was to cover the shackle attached to the belly for a fuel tank or store. I don't recall offhand which block number the shackle and deeper keel were fitted at the factory, but I do recall that early blocks could have had this fitted as a factory-supplied field kit, so you could always use a photo of the subject you want to model to confirm. I know I have that information somewhere in my references, and if nobody else supplies it, I can look for  it.

Mike

 

Although I can't find anything on it, this does reference (from Joe Baugher's link above) both pieces of nose art. 

Quote

6573 (MSN 679) 336th FS [VF-S], 4th FG, 8th AF, Debden, Station 356; Artwork featuring a cartoon image of a smoking standing penguin wearing a dinner-suit, a flying helmet and a holstered pistol over its left shoulder in front of a blue disc; "B.E.V.O.A.P.A.B.M." ['Bird's Eye View Of A Pig's bottom By Moonlight'] - artwork of a pig entering a hutch; Damaged 28Jun43 in collision with P-47C 41-6539 taxying at RAF Warmwell, Dorset, England, Station 454; Condemned September 20, 1945

 

From your link, which I did see early, does mention both.  Just never seen a picture of the second nose art.  So if Larry Davis does have a picture it's never made it to the Web.

Quote

This aircraft was assigned to the 336th Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Group.
It wore its penguin nose art while assigned to 1st Lt. Andrew J. Stephenson. It was later passed on to 1st Lt. Peter G. Lehman, who was the son of the governor of New York at the time. Lehman added the acronym B.E.V.O.A.P.A.B.M., which he said stood for 'Bird's Eye View Of A Pig's bottom By Moonlight'!

 

I think we are ok with the bulge kit on the bottom.   Many were retrofitted in the field and the P-47 Detail and Scale does mention many of the later P-47C-5's had them from the factory.  41-6573 was in the second half of the last production run.  And judging by the pic with Lehman in it (starboard shot) it looks like it has the impregnated paper 200 gal tank on it.  So I think I am ok with the Bulged keel part.

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I've made two -C P-47s, from Tamiya and Academy kits.  The cowl "conversion" is quite simple.  There's no need for an aftermarket cowl although there are firms willing to sell them.  The big issue is confusion regarding any cowl flap configuration that deviates from the most common later -D model standard, there were a couple of variations and many colour profile "references" don't get it right.  My model of Wela Kahao wound up with early -D cowl flaps rather than the appropriate -C model arrangement.  😖   Double-check before final assembly!

 

The Roll Models keel-delete backdate part is quite simple, a bit of styrene and a sanding stick would probably do just as good a job, if one needs to go that route.

 

There may be some variation with the vent forward of the waste gate on early -C models, 72modeler mentioned it in another early T-bolt thread recently.

 

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You may be interested in this thread over on the 72nd Scale Aircraft site.   I was asking about an early P-47D1-5 as used by the 348th Fighter Group on New Guinea.  There are some good photos of early P-47D1's - 5's with the flat keel in the links.   

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/72nd_aircraft/weren-t-we-supposed-to-get-an-early-p-47d-t11578.html

 

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Hello BlueNoser352,

having spent some time in the -D to -C conversion myself, here is a summary of the differences I have found:

-cowling has two less flaps per side

-flat keel up to late'43 when belly shackle and plumbing were installed: faired over with the deep keel panels (same as later D's). To my knowledge in ETO flat-keeled a/cs could have just ferry tanks installed, while deep-keeled could mount droppable "combat" tanks.  Your a/c as depicted in the above photographs has the deep keel mod.

-no wing pylons, wing strakes to be added in place of them

 

then a lot  of "minor" things

 

-oil cooler flaps differed from -C to -D

-engine config specifical to the version

-anti-icing circuit installed on the propeller (visible in the american air museum pic)

-right-side engine accessory compartment fuselage panel has three slots (two slots and a slotted sub-panel on -Ds) like the left-side one

-windscreen often  has a small openable triangular panel on the left side

-no glare shield and usually field-improvised gusight mount for the Mk VIII gunsight type

-very likely square-cornered pilot armor panel

-just 4 "elliptical" flap inspection panels per wing

-flap hinges had factory-installed cover panels, later removed in -Ds

-usually no whip antenna under the wing

-landing light but no red/blue/amber signal lamps under the wing,

About antennas, it is a complex matter, the annoying point being the change from the factory SCR-274 radio set to the ETO-installed SCR-522+SCR-438; my undestanding is that when this happened (mid 1943), the wire-antennas were removed, and the more zealous ground crews removed even the  fuselage feed-through ceramic insulators (if not, you have to add them) patching them (this is true f.a.e. for the  a/c  I modelled,  that is "el Jeepo"). The wire antenna  was superseded by the fuselage whip, but some a/cs show two of them! one on the spine, one on the right-hand tail. Just a picture of your specific aircraft can help in this matter. Moreover, it is not clear how the cockpit changes according  to this mod. Were the SCR-274 controls removed or just the SCR-522 controls added? I choose this second option, nobody can disprove it...

About the wheel hub, it is a popular design (el Jeepo has exactly the same), white star over blue is a sure bet!

The gear legs seem to be aluminum (I'll let you decide) some -Cs had olive drab, some had aluminum.

The cockpit is veeeeeeeery likely mildly Tinted Zinc Chromate (the kind that in the few period photograps/movies looks almost YZC)

This is almost all I can remember now.

Stefano

 

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That's an excellent information dump, Stefano.  Even if there are ambiguities regarding which planes had what when, having a list of things to look for when reviewing reference photos is very helpful.

 

I didn't know about the missing red/blue/amber lights, for instance.  I did use YZC in the 'pits, however.  🙂

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My reading indicates that the P-47D-5 was the first sub-type where all production included the armoured, tank-fitted keel. Many P-47C and early P-47D models were retrofitted so it becomes confusing unless you have a photo showing the appropriate section.

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Hello Jackson,

what I learned about the -C version comes from the Parts Catalogue and from hours looking at the few period photographs.

About the cockpit colour, I think the -C had a slightly tinted YZC (so a green-yellow). This because the manual specifies Tinted Zinc Chromate in the cockpit. The few original color evidence shows a weird yellow tinge, and at least one photograph exists (early P-47C visiting Bassingbourne) in which the armor plate and the wheel well look the same colour. I think this is explained by the excess blue content of this pictures and the fact that the presence of the dark OD produces overexposure of the light YZC/TZC. Anyway, another couple of interesting pics (Bud Mahurin in the cockpit of his -D5, from front and back of the a/c) clearly show a yellowish cockpit (like -Cs) and an olive green armor plate; I think that at some point of the -D production the Black content in TZC was raised to get a markedly darker hue.

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