gingerbob Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hi chaps (and possibly chappesses), A rather esoteric question, but does anyone happen to know about the thinking behind New Zealand's acquisition of Avengers? That is, what role did they intend for them to fill, regardless of what they actually DID use them for. Please note that I have nothing against Avengers- or NZ judgement- 'twas just a question that struck me. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 I think a clue lies in what tasks and under whose overall command in theatre RNZAF had. Akin to the Corsairs, both naval aircraft (not that weird for an island nation) and in this case anti-ship/sub patrol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Plus maybe the traditional NZ supplier had other things on its hands at the time and Avengers and Corsairs (and Mustangs) were more easily available from the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Like the Dauntlesses that proceeded them, close air support. As light bombers, basically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Just what got me thinking about it. I can't say that the Avenger strikes me as a first choice for close support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Gee Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 I read somewhere that the RNZAF was supplied by Lend Lease from US Navy stocks. Turns out the RNZAF attached under the USN Pacific Command and I guess the Avenger was the logical replacement for the Dauntless. Buy British was the only way at the beginning, but when things stepped up a bit the US was the main supplier in our part of the world and has been ever since. Did a quick bit of digging and came across this thread about Kiwi Corsairs. Which reminds me, I should hunt down some Kiwi decals for that Corsair and a CAC Boomerang. https://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/16938 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, gingerbob said: A rather esoteric question, but does anyone happen to know about the thinking behind New Zealand's acquisition of Avengers? That is, what role did they intend for them to fill, regardless of what they actually DID use them for 1 hour ago, Jay Gee said: I read somewhere that the RNZAF was supplied by Lend Lease from US Navy stocks. Turns out the RNZAF attached under the USN Pacific Command and I guess the Avenger was the logical replacement for the Dauntless. Buy British was the only way at the beginning, but when things stepped up a bit the US was the main supplier in our part of the world and has been ever since Jay Gee is correct in his comment about the RNZAF being attached and under command of the USN in the Pacific WWII, and thereby in receipt of Lend Lease more readily. Note these equipment decisions were not a"Whim" of either the US or New Zealand military, meetings were held in Washington DC to look at what was "Fit for Purpose" at the time. The RNZAF received two lots of TBF's, initially TBF-1 used for training of flying/ground crew, then TBF-1c's used by both 30/31 Squadrons in the forward areas Why the TBF? - When received some RNZAF Personal were sent for torpedo training with the USN in Australia. Obviously it was envisioned that the RNZAF would partake in Anti Shipping duties against the IJN. (Taken from the Book by Wally Ingham "The Avengers" (Wally served with 30/31 Squadrons) By the time the Avengers arrived, (late 1943) things in the Pacific had moved on namely the Japanese being pushed back further to their homeland., With that change, the RNZAF was assigned other duties, namely getting rid of the Japanese (both IJN/IJA) from places like Rabaul/Papua New Guinea. Bear in mind the RNZAF had light bombers, but the Avenger while tasked with a bombing role (something more akin to dive bombing) were utilized in the Morale busting role, flying "Garden Missions" where the Avenger carried fuel tanks in the bomb bay filled with diesel, which was sprayed over food crops the Japanese military maintained. These mission were taken over from USMC/MAG Avenger Squadrons operating in/from same forward areas as the RNZAF. The diesel was ignited by an incendiary devices. The RNZAF Avengers were obviously noticed by Japan, as Tokyo Rose mentioned them specifically in her broadcasts and telling them they were going to shot down. Note photo below (Watering cans) (RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions) The Avengers were then slowly replaced by the mighty Corsair, whose crews became quite adept at the ground attack role, 450lb Depth Charges being used quite effectively in low level strikes, bear in mind also USMC/USN were using the Corsair in the same areas in a like manner. (RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions) Note there is a Plaque dedicated to RNZAF 30 Squadron by the USMC/MAG Squadrons who flew with the Kiwi's at the Admiral Nimitz Memorial Park, Fredericksburg Texas. Regards Alan Edited October 10, 2020 by LDSModeller Additional info added 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Bravo, Alan! Not to slight anyone else, but THAT'S the sort of answer I was hoping to provoke. Thanks all, now I can go back to what I was really thinking about... let's see, what was that? Edit: Or can I? A good article (pt.1 of 3) on NZ use of Dauntless, and... one on the Avenger. Edited October 10, 2020 by gingerbob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, gingerbob said: Thanks all, now I can go back to what I was really thinking about... let's see, what was that? Edit: Or can I? A good article (pt.1 of 3) on NZ use of Dauntless, and... one on the Avenger. You're welcome Bob The RNZAF's Operational use (as in actually dropping Bombs) of the SBD was just the SBD-5. (RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions) These when returned to the USMC, the Quartermaster made the comment that they were as "New" The SBD-4's flew practice missions in the Islands, but never dropped bombs on the Japanese. Not a lot of folks know this, but a number of the TB-1c's were either handed back to the USN or handed over to the BPF. Some ended up in the serving post WWII in The RNZAF such as Aerial top dressing Target Towing etc. Yes the below is NZ2504 "Popeye dropping fertilizer over RNZAF Ohakea (RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions) This is NZ2504 circa 1953 in different colours and markings - Target towing (RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions) Regards Alan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 An Avenger in natural metal with (presumably) Yellow trainer bands: now that is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Silver/aluminium paint above and yellow/black TT stripes underneath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 https://imgur.com/dRffSZw I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968. One day, I'll build that I said to my youthful self. Two 1/32 vacform Avengers later (one Combat Models, one I.D.) and both abandoned when Trumpeter announced their kit, I have yet to actually buy one and make a start. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Ossington said: I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968. Unfortunately the Author of that profile has added the Fern Leaf to the RNZAF Roundels, when they would not have been worn. NZ2503 crashed into the Waitemamta Harbour, Auckland, March 15 1956. The Fern Leaf was not applied to RNZAF Roundels till at least June 1957 The photo link below, shows NZ2503 (rear aircraft) RNZAF Avenger NZ2503 For anyone interested, an account of the RNZAF Roundel History of Kiwi Roundel Regards Alan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Going with my failing memory, and I haven't seen the article for many years, but even as an 11 YO, I don't remember the photo that accompanied the article having fern leaf roundels. So many photos back then were tiny. Remember Photo Page? About 20 pics and minimal captioning crammed onto one page. Looking back, it was a terrifc resource. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 5:27 PM, Ossington said: https://imgur.com/dRffSZw I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968. One day, I'll build that I said to my youthful self. Two 1/32 vacform Avengers later (one Combat Models, one I.D.) and both abandoned when Trumpeter announced their kit, I have yet to actually buy one and make a start. Hey! I resemble that remark. Only too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Hi All, Found this in my saved info, has some shots of RNZAF TBF's scattered through Warning nudity at start of Film (Kiwi boys enjoying time at the local beach) and the Narrator calls a US B 25 a Flying Fortress (hard to get good narrators back then obviously ) RNZAF Strikes Bouganville Regards Alan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 hours ago, LDSModeller said: Narrator calls a US B 25 a Flying Fortress (hard to get good narrators back then obviously ) The more things change, the more they stay the same Btw: this is the only type of video where YT's recommendations are useful 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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