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RNZAF Avengers- What were they thinking?


gingerbob

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Hi chaps (and possibly chappesses),

 

A rather esoteric question, but does anyone happen to know about the thinking behind New Zealand's acquisition of Avengers?  That is, what role did they intend for them to fill, regardless of what they actually DID use them for.

 

Please note that I have nothing against Avengers- or NZ judgement- 'twas just a question that struck me.

 

bob

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I think a clue lies in what tasks and under whose overall command in theatre RNZAF had.

Akin to the Corsairs, both naval aircraft (not that weird for an island nation) and in this case anti-ship/sub patrol?
 

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Plus maybe the traditional NZ supplier had other things on its hands at the time and Avengers and Corsairs (and Mustangs) were more easily available from the US?

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I read somewhere that the RNZAF was supplied by Lend Lease from US Navy stocks. Turns out the RNZAF attached under the USN Pacific Command and I guess the Avenger was the logical replacement for the Dauntless. Buy British was the only way at the beginning, but when things stepped up a bit the US was the main supplier in our part of the world and has been ever since. 

 

Did a quick bit of digging and came across this thread about Kiwi Corsairs. Which reminds me, I should hunt down some Kiwi decals for that Corsair and a CAC Boomerang.

 

 

https://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/16938

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5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

A rather esoteric question, but does anyone happen to know about the thinking behind New Zealand's acquisition of Avengers?  That is, what role did they intend for them to fill, regardless of what they actually DID use them for

 

1 hour ago, Jay Gee said:

I read somewhere that the RNZAF was supplied by Lend Lease from US Navy stocks. Turns out the RNZAF attached under the USN Pacific Command and I guess the Avenger was the logical replacement for the Dauntless. Buy British was the only way at the beginning, but when things stepped up a bit the US was the main supplier in our part of the world and has been ever since

Jay Gee is correct in his comment about the RNZAF being attached and under command

of the USN in the Pacific WWII, and thereby in receipt of Lend Lease more readily.

Note these equipment decisions were not  a"Whim" of either the US or New Zealand military, meetings were

held in Washington DC to look at what was "Fit for Purpose" at the time.

The RNZAF received two lots of TBF's, initially TBF-1 used for training of flying/ground crew, then

TBF-1c's used by both 30/31 Squadrons in the forward areas

Why the TBF? - When received some RNZAF Personal were sent for torpedo training with the USN in

Australia. Obviously it was envisioned that the RNZAF would partake in Anti Shipping duties against

the IJN. (Taken from the Book by Wally Ingham "The Avengers" (Wally served with 30/31 Squadrons)

By the time the Avengers arrived, (late 1943) things in the Pacific had moved on namely the Japanese being

pushed back further to their homeland.,

With that change, the RNZAF was assigned other duties, namely getting rid of the Japanese (both IJN/IJA)

from places like Rabaul/Papua New Guinea.

Bear in mind the RNZAF had light bombers, but the Avenger while tasked with a bombing role (something more

akin to dive bombing) were utilized in the Morale busting role,  flying "Garden Missions" where the Avenger carried

fuel tanks in the bomb bay filled with diesel, which was sprayed over food crops the Japanese military maintained.

These mission were taken over from USMC/MAG Avenger Squadrons operating in/from same forward areas as the RNZAF.

The diesel was ignited by an incendiary devices. The RNZAF Avengers were obviously noticed by Japan, as Tokyo Rose

mentioned them specifically in her broadcasts and telling them they were going to shot down.

Note photo below (Watering cans)

PF75-1a-93.t5f752995.m800.xURTXTYqo.jpg

(RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions)

The Avengers were then slowly replaced by the mighty Corsair, whose crews became quite adept at the ground attack role,

450lb Depth Charges being used quite effectively in low level strikes, bear in mind also USMC/USN were using the Corsair

in the same areas in a like manner.

PR5057.t5ec03ae1.m600.x_1QQgv8H.jpg

(RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions)

 

Note there is a Plaque dedicated to RNZAF 30 Squadron by the USMC/MAG Squadrons who

flew with the Kiwi's at the Admiral Nimitz Memorial Park, Fredericksburg Texas.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Edited by LDSModeller
Additional info added
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Bravo, Alan!  Not to slight anyone else, but THAT'S the sort of answer I was hoping to provoke.

 

Thanks all, now I can go back to what I was really thinking about... let's see, what was that?

 

Edit: Or can I?  A good article (pt.1 of 3) on NZ use of Dauntless, and...

one on the Avenger.

Edited by gingerbob
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27 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Thanks all, now I can go back to what I was really thinking about... let's see, what was that?

 

Edit: Or can I?  A good article (pt.1 of 3) on NZ use of Dauntless, and...

one on the Avenger.

You're welcome Bob :)

 

The RNZAF's Operational use (as in actually dropping Bombs) of the SBD was just the SBD-5.

PR3451.t5ec03385.m800.xO9pWBklm.jpg

(RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions)

These when returned to the USMC, the Quartermaster made the comment that they were as "New"

 

The SBD-4's flew practice missions in the Islands, but never dropped bombs on the Japanese.

 

Not a lot of folks know this, but a number of the TB-1c's were either handed back to the USN

or handed over to the BPF. Some ended up in the serving post WWII in The RNZAF such as Aerial top dressing

Target Towing etc.

Yes the below is NZ2504 "Popeye dropping fertilizer over RNZAF Ohakea

OhA196.t5de5c166.m600.xPU8B2OYn.jpg

OhA219.t5de5c166.m600.xBxamXL-Y.jpg

(RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions)

 

This is NZ2504 circa 1953 in different colours and markings - Target towing

OhG1638-53.t5de6a679.m800.xbmkgZBjV.jpg

(RNZAF Official - RNZAF Museum - used with permissions)

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

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https://imgur.com/dRffSZw

 

I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968. One day, I'll build that I said to my youthful self. Two 1/32 vacform Avengers later (one Combat Models, one I.D.) and both abandoned when Trumpeter announced their kit, I have yet to actually buy one and make a start.

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5 hours ago, Ossington said:

I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968.

Unfortunately the Author of that profile has added the Fern Leaf to the

RNZAF Roundels, when they would not have been worn.

NZ2503 crashed into the Waitemamta Harbour, Auckland, March 15 1956.

The Fern Leaf was not applied to RNZAF Roundels till at least June 1957

 

The photo link below, shows NZ2503 (rear aircraft)

RNZAF Avenger NZ2503

 

For anyone interested, an account of the RNZAF Roundel

History of Kiwi Roundel

 

Regards

 

Alan

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Going with my failing memory, and I haven't seen the article for many years, but even as an 11 YO, I don't remember the photo that accompanied the article having fern leaf roundels. So many photos back then were tiny. Remember Photo Page? About 20 pics and minimal captioning crammed onto one page. Looking back, it was a terrifc resource.  

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On 10/10/2020 at 5:27 PM, Ossington said:

https://imgur.com/dRffSZw

 

I first found this scheme in a copy of Airfix Magazine, circa 1968. One day, I'll build that I said to my youthful self. Two 1/32 vacform Avengers later (one Combat Models, one I.D.) and both abandoned when Trumpeter announced their kit, I have yet to actually buy one and make a start.

 

Hey! I resemble that remark.

 

Only too well.

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Hi All,

 

Found this in my saved info, has some shots of RNZAF TBF's scattered through

Warning nudity at start of Film (Kiwi boys enjoying time at the local beach) and the

Narrator calls a US B 25 a Flying Fortress (hard to get good narrators back then obviously :fool:)

RNZAF Strikes Bouganville

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

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4 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

Narrator calls a US B 25 a Flying Fortress (hard to get good narrators back then obviously :fool:)

The more things change, the more they stay the same :P

Btw: this is the only type of video where YT's recommendations are useful :D 

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