TheFlogger Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) G'day gentlemen, I have a question regarding German Fouga Magisters's under surface. AMK kit says it must be agate grey (RAL7038), Valom suggests H325 of Gunze, Specialhobby says h315 from Gunze. which color would be best ? I appreciate your kind help. cheers here seems a bit metallic to me... https://i.imgur.com/R9Xvq5Q.jpg Edited October 9, 2020 by Julien dont imbed copyrighted pics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 If you hadn't listed those recommendations I would have assumed that aircraft in the photo was wearing a typical aged Norm 72 scheme with RAL9006 underneath which had oxidised from silver to a grey as it tended to do, or perhaps Norm 76 with RAL7001 Silbergrau underneath to start with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlogger Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: If you hadn't listed those recommendations I would have assumed that aircraft in the photo was wearing a typical aged Norm 72 scheme with RAL9006 underneath which had oxidised from silver to a grey as it tended to do. First of all; thanks a lot. Well I had read RAL9006 Silver grau is used but confusing thing is why every producer gives differents colors? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheFlogger said: First of all; thanks a lot. Well I had read RAL9006 Silver grau is used but confusing thing is why every producer gives differents colors? Quite often manufacturers don't actually have matches and just quote what they decide is near enough for you... The RAL Classic standard is not all that expensive to buy and they're pretty clear though so there's limited excuse for manufacturers quoting wild numbers. Wingman Models here on Cybermodeller here quotes Norm 76: https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/cm170/cm170_profile02.shtml 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlogger Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: Quite often manufacturers don't actually have matches and just quote what they decide is near enough for you... The RAL Classic standard is not all that expensive to buy and they're pretty clear though so there's limited excuse for manufacturers quoting wild numbers. Wingman Models here on Cybermodeller here quotes Norm 76: https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/cm170/cm170_profile02.shtml Thanks you very much. I am between building a Belgian or German Fouga now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Cohiba Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Well, from my perspective colour matching isn't hard science, to me it's more like getting close and creatign a good overall impression. Even if you have information to match the colour when new, there is a deviation based on the colour model of the various paint manufacturers use. And then there's wear - a lot of sun will turn the colour lighter and less bright, desert sun will grind it, oil and other fluids will stain it, a Marine bird will have a slight reddish tone, due to micro-rust particles. I like to build my planes more on the worn side, so I use just what I have at home (or buy from a paint manufacturer I'm familiar with) rather than trying to get a probably even more exact match from different vendors. The blend-in is done by weathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junchan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 The upper surfaces of the German Magister were RAL 6014 Gelboliv and RAL 7012 Basaltgrau, the same as other German planes such as the F-104G, but the lower surfaces were RAL 9007 Weißaluminium, not RAL 7001 Silbergrau. Check this site for shade of RAL colors. https://www.ralcolor.com/ Jun in Tokyo https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 RAL 9006 is Weißaluminium, not 9007. That makes this a standard Norm 72 camouflage so I'm happy my instinct was correct all along. 9006 is silver but it did oxidise to a metallic grey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 F-40 is wrong, the Fougas are painted in RAL 7001 on bottom surface. The Luftwaffe use different colors for different aircraft. Example, RAL 9006: DO-28 Transall F-4F and RF-4E (T)F-104 OV-10A The reason why RAL 9006 here looks sometimes like grey is simple: It´s a flat color with less reflective metallic appaerance compared to high gloss coatings. Exception is in sunny weather conditions and direct sunlight. Example RAL 7001: T-33 Fiat G 91 Alpha Jet DO 27 (R)F-84F F-86K & MK 6 Tornado Piaggio 149 HFB Hansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Thankfully the RAL colours are available for a few different suppliers in Acrylics these days, RAL9006/9007 "There is one major difference on RAL 9006 and RAL 9007 from the rest of the 213 RAL Classic colors, which are all opaque colors in different hues suitable for all colored materials. With every new edition these color samples can be produced within a very precise tolerance. This does not hold true for RAL 9006 and RAL 9007. Both colors originate from the corrosion protection program of the former Reichsbahn (German state railway). They were mandatory for corrosion protection of steelwork (train stations, bridges etc.) and rolling stock (roofs etc.). The colors also had similar functions in the former German air force and navy. They were never intended to be used for decorative purposes. RAL 9006 is essentially produced using aluminum particles, and RAL 9007 with iron oxide in a layered structure with small amounts of aluminum powder. The Reichsbahn registered all its colors with RAL to enable it to use them as references when placing orders. Therefore RAL 9006 and RAL 9007 were included, but since the 1970's their inclusion has led to misunderstandings." 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Where did you get the information about post WWII aircraft corrosion protection? If you use it in the way you describe you have to apply a high build film thickness to reach anti corrosion protection. Good for bridges and train stations, but not for aircraft. Here is less paint thickness very important. They use Wash or Epoxy Primers for exterior finish. Here is a example for German F-4F Bottom: 1 coat of yellow Epoxy Primer, followed by two coats of RAL 9006 Enamel paints Top: 1 coat of yellow Epoxy Primer followed by two coats of RAL 6014 Enamel Paints 1 coat of yellow Epoxy Primer followed by two coats of RAL 7012 Enamel Paints Paint Specification Plate on a German RF-4E: Nowadays they use less harmfull and more resistant 2K primers and paints instead of 1K primers and paints used during the cold war area. Edited October 10, 2020 by JayBee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 That is not about aircraft protection but the origins of the thos two RAL Numbers, how they used them on aircraft I have no idea as it looks like they were developed for more earthly reasons than aircraft. BTW pics in your above post do not show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I fixed the links, hope they worked now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now