A Panther in Paris

[Peter Roberts]

In the meantime, something for your entertainment :

 

 

 

Blatantly stolen from an Aussie Modeller post

Edited October 10, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[Retired Bob]

21 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

May be a little while before plastic is cut   But this is a start.......of sorts. Looking forward to learning from your builds.

While your Panther is fundamentally similar to mine, the difference is the moulded on zimmerit, this covers all the indents on the upper hull sides for locating the tools and equipment.  There are still indents on the inside surface of the upper hull and these need to be drilled through before you attach the upper and lower hull pieces together or you will be left guessing where to attach the tools and equipment. 

[Peter Roberts]

1 hour ago, Retired Bob said:

While your Panther is fundamentally similar to mine, the difference is the moulded on zimmerit, this covers all the indents on the upper hull sides for locating the tools and equipment.  There are still indents on the inside surface of the upper hull and these need to be drilled through before you attach the upper and lower hull pieces together or you will be left guessing where to attach the tools and equipment. 

 

Thanks for the heads up there - something I have missed in the past with other kits.

[Peter Roberts]

I tend to prefer enamel paints - either Tamiya or Humbrol.

 

Any suggestions for what colours you would use from these brands for the Yellow, Olive Green and Red Brown?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[Longbow]

Ron Volstad produced a color plate of the Panther G you are looking at. 

It appeared in “SS Armor in Action” produced by Squadron publishing. 

 

[Peter Roberts]

1 hour ago, Longbow said:

Ron Volstad produced a color plate of the Panther G you are looking at. 

It appeared in “SS Armor in Action” produced by Squadron publishing. 

 

Thank you - that is a nice profile! Almost worth printing and framing.

 

There are a couple of takes on the camouflage - I have also seen the green as a direct border to the red brown patches. I am not sure if the G driving towards the Arc de Triumphe is the same as that pictured by the kerb. The former looks like the profile you have posted, with extra aerials (command tank?) and AA machine gun (though not shown in the profile) while that by the kerb doesn't seem to have that equipment. I think I'll model this one sans extra equipment, as per the tank pictured kerbside, especially as there will be hatches open.

 

I have also found a mention of these tanks in 'Panther Tanks - Normandy Campaign 1944' by Oliver. He seems to think these tanks are from 3. Kompanie, SS Panzer Regiment 12 which apparently transited through Paris to Harcourt on 24 June 1944, and has illustrated one as having olive green patches with red brown 'shadow'!

[Peter Roberts]

This thing was sitting there taunting me and finally I'd had enough. So work has begun here too. I have a grand total of two tanks built, so this is a real learning experience. I'd forgotten how many parts there were in Dragon tank kits! Torsion bars have been removed and cleaned, and some minor assembly begun on the front of the hull.

 

There are some alternate parts here in the first step. Can anyone help me with:

 

1. two different fans for the engine compartment, one with extra blades. Which would I put into this early G? 

 

2. two different transmission covers, one looks to have an extra auxiliary wheel. Which one would I put on an early G?

 

There are two different suspension bumps but not overly concerned with these - the difference looks to be so minimal and not likely to be seen, but if you have a clue for these that would be appreciated too.

 

[SimonT]

I think it should be:

 

1. Lower fan, the tall one came in later as a method to heat the crew compartment.

 

2. you want the transmission cover that has the return roller, not the skid.

 

Ill dig out references if you need?

[Peter Roberts]

41 minutes ago, SimonT said:

I think it should be:

 

1. Lower fan, the tall one came in later as a method to heat the crew compartment.

 

2. you want the transmission cover that has the return roller, not the skid.

 

Ill dig out references if you need?

Thanks Simon, references not needed, appreciate the guidance.

[Retired Bob]

58 minutes ago, SimonT said:

1. Lower fan, the tall one came in later as a method to heat the crew compartment.

The tall heater tower was introduced onto the production line in October 44.

 

18 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

2. you want the transmission cover that has the return roller, not the skid.

Not sure when the skid was introduced, but it was fitted to the late ones built in 1945.

 

The suspension bumpers were just different manufacturers, so pick either one, it will be hidden behind the wheels anyway. 

 

[Longbow]

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

This thing was sitting there taunting me and finally I'd had enough. So work has begun here too. I have a grand total of two tanks built, so this is a real learning experience. I'd forgotten how many parts there were in Dragon tank kits! Torsion bars have been removed and cleaned, and some minor assembly begun on the front of the hull.

 

There are some alternate parts here in the first step. Can anyone help me with:

 

1. two different fans for the engine compartment, one with extra blades. Which would I put into this early G? 

 

2. two different transmission covers, one looks to have an extra auxiliary wheel. Which one would I put on an early G?

 

There are two different suspension bumps but not overly concerned with these - the difference looks to be so minimal and not likely to be seen, but if you have a clue for these that would be appreciated too.

 

No pix ??!!

[Peter Roberts]

 

I've only added the front lower panel to the hull and have cleaned up the front side parts so far. Lots of sway bars cleaned up!  

 

But I've hit a snag. With hatches open, I need to add an interior to the crew areas. I have a couple of CMK sets - driver and turret - that I was going to use. They are for the Tamiya kit, but should be okay for the Dragon kit, right? Hmm. I have finally plucked them from the stash and had a good look. I don't have a lot of experience working with resin, and the set includes a floor with torsion bars that seems to act as a guide of sorts to the rest of the set. When I take into account my slow build rate I decided to switch tack. Go to a Tamiya G? Still have the resin to contend with. Then I saw this sticking its hand up. Pick me, pick me it said. So I did.

 

 

Full interior, in plastic. So, change of plans. I think it will be okay to continue with this thread? Or should I start a new one?

 

In the meantime, I'm off to read the instructions, check out some build reviews, try not to think about what I'm doing, and find a good therapist. That rabbit hole is getting deeper - I think I just walked past Alice. 😣

 

PS - thank you all for the help so far! 

[diases]

Welcome to hell😂

Be interesting to see how it builds compared to takom kit

 

Paul

[Peter Roberts]

7 minutes ago, diases said:

Welcome to hell😂

Be interesting to see how it builds compared to takom kit

 

Paul

Yeah, that's my premonition as well!  

 

Fortunately I also have the builds here by Lee and Robert so some very good footsteps to follow by the looks of it

[Longbow]

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

I've only added the front lower panel to the hull and have cleaned up the front side parts so far. Lots of sway bars cleaned up!  

 

But I've hit a snag. With hatches open, I need to add an interior to the crew areas. I have a couple of CMK sets - driver and turret - that I was going to use. They are for the Tamiya kit, but should be okay for the Dragon kit, right? Hmm. I have finally plucked them from the stash and had a good look. I don't have a lot of experience working with resin, and the set includes a floor with torsion bars that seems to act as a guide of sorts to the rest of the set. When I take into account my slow build rate I decided to switch tack. Go to a Tamiya G? Still have the resin to contend with. Then I saw this sticking its hand up. Pick me, pick me it said. So I did.

 

 

Full interior, in plastic. So, change of plans. I think it will be okay to continue with this thread? Or should I start a new one?

 

In the meantime, I'm off to read the instructions, check out some build reviews, try not to think about what I'm doing, and find a good therapist. That rabbit hole is getting deeper - I think I just walked past Alice. 😣

 

PS - thank you all for the help so far! 

 

52 minutes ago, diases said:

Welcome to hell😂

Be interesting to see how it builds compared to takom kit

 

Paul

Fit will be TIGHT !!

 

Thats all I’m gonna say

[Redcoat2966]

On 10/12/2020 at 1:49 AM, Peter Roberts said:

 

I've only added the front lower panel to the hull and have cleaned up the front side parts so far. Lots of sway bars cleaned up!  

 

But I've hit a snag. With hatches open, I need to add an interior to the crew areas. I have a couple of CMK sets - driver and turret - that I was going to use. They are for the Tamiya kit, but should be okay for the Dragon kit, right? Hmm. I have finally plucked them from the stash and had a good look. I don't have a lot of experience working with resin, and the set includes a floor with torsion bars that seems to act as a guide of sorts to the rest of the set. When I take into account my slow build rate I decided to switch tack. Go to a Tamiya G? Still have the resin to contend with. Then I saw this sticking its hand up. Pick me, pick me it said. So I did.

 

 

Full interior, in plastic. So, change of plans. I think it will be okay to continue with this thread? Or should I start a new one?

 

In the meantime, I'm off to read the instructions, check out some build reviews, try not to think about what I'm doing, and find a good therapist. That rabbit hole is getting deeper - I think I just walked past Alice. 😣

 

PS - thank you all for the help so far! 

 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw you had bought the CMK stuff.....and specialising in Aircraft prior to armour that resin isn't for beginners, I steer well clear of the stuff. I was going to suggest for all the cost of the upgrade kits to get a full interior kit....plenty out there.......hey presto.........good move.., saved yourself a lot of pain.......I too would like to know more about RFM compared to Takom. I've built so far the half interior RFM Sturmtiger and at present on Takom Bergepanther....for me Takom has it. Simply down to what I am seeing as they don't take into account plastic shrinkage in the injection moulding process.....anyway, looking forward to the build.

 

Regards

Simon.

[Robert Stuart]

On 12/10/2020 at 02:17, Peter Roberts said:

Fortunately I also have the builds here by Lee and Robert so some very good footsteps to follow by the looks of it

Oh, this looks interesting Peter - for obvious reasons

There is a photo of that box-top Panther in the BundesArchive - should be the first one here:
https://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/dba/en/search/?channelid=dcx-channel-channel_barch_bilder&query=panther&day=6&month=1&yearfrom=1945&yearto=1945&imageid=&title=&farbe=&kostenfrei=&ausrichtung=&view=gallery&submit=

I'll watch with interest.
GL
Robert

[Robert Stuart]

p.s. if you change that search to include 1944, there are several images of Panthers in Paris

 

[Retired Bob]

On 11/10/2020 at 22:48, Peter Roberts said:

1. two different fans for the engine compartment, one with extra blades. Which would I put into this early G? 

Sorry for the delay in answering but finding pictures of the cooling fans has been a bit difficult, however, I got there in the end, you want the multi-bladed fan, part D21, the other fan, D5 was introduced after October1944, tanks found at the end of the war had that fan fitted.  This is typical of Dragon, they give optional parts but you are left to find out which is the correct one to use. 

[Jasper dog]

Just to hurl the moggie at the birds, you say you need an interior might I ask why?

Only asking because so little can be seen inside the open hatch and even less if there's a figure in there, that I'd hate to do tons of work in a limited time frame if its not absolutely necessary...

Just my opinion btw!

 

Good luck.

 

6 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

I too would like to know more about RFM compared to Takom. I've built so far the half interior RFM Sturmtiger and at present on Takom Bergepanther....for me Takom has it. Simply down to what I am seeing as they don't take into account plastic shrinkage in the injection moulding process.....anyway, looking forward to the build.

Regarding the comparison I'd go Takom, must say I've never built RFM but all I've read suggests it has an unnecessarily high part count, whereas I suspect the Takom to be a more straightforward build.

[Peter Roberts]

On 10/12/2020 at 1:00 PM, Longbow said:

 

Fit will be TIGHT !!

 

Thats all I’m gonna say

 

Sanding sticks standing by!  

[Peter Roberts]

8 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

p.s. if you change that search to include 1944, there are several images of Panthers in Paris

 

 

Thanks Robert! Yes, and a new one there I hadn't seen before. Shows the 'chicken wire' on the barrel stops at the travel lock.

[Peter Roberts]

3 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

Sorry for the delay in answering but finding pictures of the cooling fans has been a bit difficult, however, I got there in the end, you want the multi-bladed fan, part D21, the other fan, D5 was introduced after October1944, tanks found at the end of the war had that fan fitted.  This is typical of Dragon, they give optional parts but you are left to find out which is the correct one to use. 

 

Thanks Bob - great find, appreciate the info. I've changed tack on this build but that little nugget stored away with the kit for future reference. Hopefully it helps others too.

[Peter Roberts]

1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

Just to hurl the moggie at the birds, you say you need an interior might I ask why?

Only asking because so little can be seen inside the open hatch and even less if there's a figure in there, that I'd hate to do tons of work in a limited time frame if its not absolutely necessary...

 

 

The subject I'm building is a Panther G photographed parked apparently in a Paris street. I'll have many of the hatches open with the crew relaxing on and around it as they transit to the front, with civilians standing around staring at them. I think with hatches open and no obstructions (ie. crew in the way) the interior, or lack there of, will be very obvious. I've had this long time itch that needs scratching - doing a Panther with full interior (hence all the CMK stuff, etc gathered over the years) and this scenario fits the bill nicely. The RFM kit also fits the bill, but needs zimmerit for the subject, so my Cavalier set will play it's part here!  

[Jasper dog]

3 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

The subject I'm building is a Panther G photographed parked apparently in a Paris street. I'll have many of the hatches open with the crew relaxing on and around it as they transit to the front, with civilians standing around staring at them. I think with hatches open and no obstructions (ie. crew in the way) the interior, or lack there of, will be very obvious. I've had this long time itch that needs scratching - doing a Panther with full interior (hence all the CMK stuff, etc gathered over the years) and this scenario fits the bill nicely. The RFM kit also fits the bill, but needs zimmerit for the subject, so my Cavalier set will play it's part here!  

Sounds like a well thought out plan, looking forward to seeing it come to fruition. 

 

Atb