A Panther in Paris

[Peter Roberts]

Donner und Blitzen! I swore I'd pull back from doing a Group Build and then I saw this. I have always been keen to do a diorama (or vignette?) of this:

 

 

Any limited 'expertise' I may have is around things with wings, so tanks are a bit left field for me so I am hoping you guys may be able to help a bit with this one? From what I have found on this subject, it is a 'G' Panther? But then I find there are early and late 'G's, and then early late and late late, and... so I am a bit lost with this one. Info I have come across suggests it may be from LSSAH, but then others dispute this. Apparently taken in June 1944 on its way to the Ardenne (?) I have found several photos apparently of the same subject:

 

 

Edit : I have since found that the Panther pictured above may be an Ausf A

 

 

So, is this a 'G'? I have a Dragon 'G' with zimmerit - would this be okay to use for this subject?

 

Rubber 'tyred' wheels by the look of it, chicken wire on the barrel. Later style gun mantlet (with deflection)? Machine gun missing from glacis position.

 

Is there anything else I am missing with this one?

 

From what I understand, basic Panzer yellow with blotches of green around brown (?)

 

It looks like not a lot of wear and tear, but perhaps a fair bit of road dust - is that a reasonable interpretation?

 

Thank you for any guidance with this. I'm looking at other builds here and hope to learn on the run.  

 

Pete

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[SimonT]

Definitely a G since it’s missing the drivers visor on glacis plate and chinned mantlet (I cant see that though personally) and it seems to be an early/mid looking at the exhausts, the later G has flammenvernichters (flame dampeners) like this:

 

 

The ball mounted MG34 on the glacis was stored in the vehicle and poked through when going in to combat. They used to have a little plug on a chain to cover the hole.

[Mig Eater]

Yes it's an early G with zimmerit (mid or late versions didn't have any zim). It doesn't have the late style mantlet with the chin deflector, this was only fitted on the late model G's. The machine gun has been demounted & moved from the hull onto the AA mount around the commanders cupola.

[Peter Roberts]

Thanks guys! Looks like the Dragon kit is good to go.

[SimonT]

Also the Ausf.G production run started in March at M.A.N, May at Daimler-Benz and July at M.N.H so your’re right about just dust and no major damage.

[Soeren]

I was at first sure to see the chin on the mantlet too, but on a closer look I’d say it isn’t there. So an early style g mantlet. The dragon Zimmerit Panther should be perfect for this build. And doesn’t it include exactly this tank in the color callout too?

[SimonT]

Reading through Panzer-Tracts 5-3, prior to 19 August 1944, Ausf.G Panthers left the factories in base coat of Dunkelgelb all over and shipped off to the individual units for them to apply appropriate camo to their situation.

[Soeren]

Just checked the Dragon kit 6384. It has this tank in the callout.

[Longbow]

It is definitely a Leibstandarte early G. 
 

Very nice subject !!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello Peter welcome aboard, the 3rd photo gives me an idea for a vignette. The bike rider slowly riding by tossing a grenade towards the open hatch on the turret rear. A good way to show the resistance angle of the war. 

[Peter Roberts]

4 hours ago, SimonT said:

Also the Ausf.G production run started in March at M.A.N, May at Daimler-Benz and July at M.N.H so your’re right about just dust and no major damage.

 

4 hours ago, SimonT said:

Reading through Panzer-Tracts 5-3, prior to 19 August 1944, Ausf.G Panthers left the factories in base coat of Dunkelgelb all over and shipped off to the individual units for them to apply appropriate camo to their situation.

 

Thanks Simon. From the look of the photos, it appears to be fairly fresh and making its way to the front from the rear, so I figured it hadn't seen combat yet, may be just some exercises, but that is from a self confessed position of ignorance so appreciate your comments.

 

The camouflage is unlike anything I've seen so that would explain it - unit applied. Someone with an artistic flair for camouflage!  

[Peter Roberts]

4 hours ago, Soeren said:

I was at first sure to see the chin on the mantlet too, but on a closer look I’d say it isn’t there. So an early style g mantlet. The dragon Zimmerit Panther should be perfect for this build. And doesn’t it include exactly this tank in the color callout too?

 

4 hours ago, Soeren said:

Just checked the Dragon kit 6384. It has this tank in the callout.

 

Thanks Soeren, appreciate the confirmation. I have just pulled the kit out of the stash and lo and behold - there it is! Thanks also for the heads up. It helps to actually look at what is in/on the box doesn't it! (need an embarrassed emoji here)

[Peter Roberts]

4 hours ago, Longbow said:

It is definitely a Leibstandarte early G. 
 

Very nice subject !!

Thanks Longbow, appreciate the confirmation. It is quite unusual isn't it.

[Peter Roberts]

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello Peter welcome aboard, the 3rd photo gives me an idea for a vignette. The bike rider slowly riding by tossing a grenade towards the open hatch on the turret rear. A good way to show the resistance angle of the war. 

Thanks mate - now that would make a dramatic scene.

[Peter Roberts]

I have this track set, but the limit of my knowledge here is that the tracks changed across Panther production. Can I use it on this Panther? 

 

 

I've been planning this one for a while, so I have a nice selection of goodies to throw at it, including:

 

 

I figured if I'm going to have hatches open I'd better have an interior! These are for the Tamiya kit, but I am hoping to fiddle them into the Dragon kit. I must admit I am starting to feel a bit of 'Alice in Wonderland' syndrome coming on - I am being pulled down a rabbit hole. 😶

Edited October 9, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[SimonT]

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

I have this track set, but the limit of my knowledge here is that the tracks changed across Panther production. Can I use it on this Panther?

 

It’s my understanding that there were only two types of tracks for the Panther, flat stepped cleats (is this the right name? I mean the part that comes in contact with the ground) and “Starting from August 1943, six chevrons were added to the face of each track link to decrease slipping.” - Panzer Tracts 5-1. So yes, you have the correct set.

 

Interestingly the Jagdpanther has slightly different tracks still, but I’ll talk about that when I get to them on my build, I’ll be cheating and using the same Bronco set you have

 

I like all the goodies you have and since you’ve already jumped into the proverbial rabbit hole, you’ll need a figure to go with it 🐰

Edited October 9, 2020 by SimonT
After all the waffle forgot to say they are the correct tracks...

[Soeren]

2 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

I have this track set, but the limit of my knowledge here is that the tracks changed across Panther production. Can I use it on this Panther? 

 

 

I've been planning this one for a while, so I have a nice selection of goodies to throw at it, including:

 

 

I figured if I'm going to have hatches open I'd better have an interior! These are for the Tamiya kit, but I am hoping to fiddle them into the Dragon kit. I must admit I am starting to feel a bit of 'Alice in Wonderland' syndrome coming on - I am being pulled down a rabbit hole. 😶

You don´t take no prisoners, right?

[Peter Roberts]

1 hour ago, SimonT said:

I like all the goodies you have and since you’ve already jumped into the proverbial rabbit hole, you’ll need a figure to go with it 🐰

Thanks Simon, appreciate the confirmation re: the tracks

 

Figures? You were watching earlier weren't you? Yep, five crew, several civilians, a cobbled road and a paved foot path, lamp post, a wall with windows and posters, newspapers, maps.

 

Oh dear,....what am I doing! I keep telling myself, just go with the flow.....must go with the flow....  

[Peter Roberts]

52 minutes ago, Soeren said:

You don´t take no prisoners, right?

 

Yeah, think I might be biting off more than I can chew here, but we'll see.

 

Of dear, it is Saturday tomorrow isn't it....   

Edited October 9, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[Longbow]

2 hours ago, SimonT said:

It’s my understanding that there were only two types of tracks for the Panther, flat stepped cleats (is this the right name? I mean the part that comes in contact with the ground) and “Starting from August 1943, six chevrons were added to the face of each track link to decrease slipping.” - Panzer Tracts 5-1. So yes, you have the correct set.

 

Interestingly the Jagdpanther has slightly different tracks still, but I’ll talk about that when I get to them on my build, I’ll be cheating and using the same Bronco set you have

 

I like all the goodies you have and since you’ve already jumped into the proverbial rabbit hole, you’ll need a figure to go with it 🐰

There was actually a third set, very late, which had solid guide horns. 
The Bovington Panther has a couple on links of this type. 

[Jasper dog]

4 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Thanks Simon, appreciate the confirmation re: the tracks

 

Figures? You were watching earlier weren't you? Yep, five crew, several civilians, a cobbled road and a paved foot path, lamp post, a wall with windows and posters, newspapers, maps.

 

Oh dear,....what am I doing! I keep telling myself, just go with the flow.....must go with the flow....  

This will look tremendous,  can't wait to see the 1/35 Arc de Triomphe. Great idea!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

13 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

Yeah, think I might be biting off more than I can chew here, but we'll see.

 

Of dear, it is Saturday tomorrow isn't it....   

I make it two hours until 00:01 U.K. Time. So two hours and counting. 

8 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

This will look tremendous,  can't wait to see the 1/35 Arc de Triomphe. Great idea!

Lets hope the scale is correct or it will turn out like Spinal Taps Stonehenge. 

[Retired Bob]

13 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Of dear, it is Saturday tomorrow isn't it....   

Less time to worry about it. 

9 hours ago, Jasper dog said:

This will look tremendous,  can't wait to see the 1/35 Arc de Triomphe. Great idea!

Just think of the size of the base. 

[Peter Roberts]

13 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

Just think of the size of the base. 

We've just filled in a swimming pool, so may be an alternative to a Spitfire on a pole!  

 

Who am I kidding, SWMBO would never agree to either ...... 

[Peter Roberts]

It's Saturday, so on with the formalities. This is the said kit (thanks guys for the advice here) :

 

 

These are the said contents:

 

 

I haven't pulled all the bags and bits out - too intimidating at this point. And this is the scheme (thanks Soeren) :

 

 

Not sure I agree entirely with Dragons interpretation here, but maybe they have a different tank as their subject. I see this as having more distinct, separate patches, but I admit I haven't studied this subject super closely yet.

 

May be a little while before plastic is cut - still have a BoB GB Spitfire to finish, along with an RAF Albion refueller, a V1, and a 1903 Mercedes (I know, don't ask) - and have a LOT of reading and study to do first. But this is a start.......of sorts. Looking forward to learning from your builds.