F-89J ANG load out - Genie colours

[Chrisj2003]

Looking to build my Academy 1/72 Scorpion in late 60s ANG trim, OOB. Photos either show the wingtip tanks blocking the view or nothing on pylons. Was the Genie used by the Guard? Or did they mainly fly unarmed?

 

Chris

Edited December 12, 2020 by Chrisj2003

[72modeler]

From the photos I have looked at, it appears the wing pylons were either empty or carried an external fuel tank; IIRC the genies were only ever carried for firing trials or possibly on the Alaskan-based alert aircraft. Doesn't really answer your query, but see the link below to an interesting You Tube video that shows details of the 5-inch FFAR's carried in the wingtip pods. The tool used to seat each rocket in its socket was new to me! The 2nd link is to some views of a Scorpion being restored- note the use of  untinted and tinted ZC primer on the aircraft.

Mike

 

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/5JNtoWAy10g

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by 72modeler
added link

[exdraken]

Do you think it was in the arsenal of the ANG or that it actively flew with a nuclear air defense missile regularly in peace time?

Definitely cant think of the later... 

[Wez]

I have the Skylancer decals for the F-89J (very nice they are too and no, they're not for sale).  All of these aircraft are regular USAF aircraft and carry the full range of stores including the Falcon and Genie.  The accompanying notes state (my emphasis):

 

"At the extreme end of their USAF service life in USAF use (and certainly in Air National Guard service), most units operating the F-89J deleted the Falcon missile capability from the aircraft along with their underwing pylons."

 

Therefore I'd say in ANG service they would only have the Genie pylon under the wings, whether they had Genie's fitted is a moot point, I'd guess they could potentially but whether they did in reality is another matter, a quick Google check is inconclusive because an image search for Northrop F-89J Air National Guard brings up other marks of F-89 and regular USAF units.  I think if there was anything on the pylons it's likely to be drop tanks.

 

At the end of the day, it's your model.

[Slater]

Those early Mk 4 motors on the 2.75 inch rockets weren't the most accurate and even a full salvo wasn't guaranteed to hit anything (unless the range was REALLY close, I would think). The later Mk 40 motor introduced scarfed nozzles, which gave the rocket a spin resulting in somewhat improved accuracy.

[Chrisj2003]

1 hour ago, Wez said:

I have the Skylancer decals for the F-89J (very nice they are too and no, they're not for sale).  All of these aircraft are regular USAF aircraft and carry the full range of stores including the Falcon and Genie.  The accompanying notes state (my emphasis):

 

"At the extreme end of their USAF service life in USAF use (and certainly in Air National Guard service), most units operating the F-89J deleted the Falcon missile capability from the aircraft along with their underwing pylons."

 

Therefore I'd say in ANG service they would only have the Genie pylon under the wings, whether they had Genie's fitted is a moot point, I'd guess they could potentially but whether they did in reality is another matter, a quick Google check is inconclusive because an image search for Northrop F-89J Air National Guard brings up other marks of F-89 and regular USAF units.  I think if there was anything on the pylons it's likely to be drop tanks.

 

At the end of the day, it's your model.

Wez, thanks I’ve got those decals in the stash too. Never noticed that note. Understand the Falcon was a complex missle so deleting them makes sense. Fancied doing the ADC gray. 

 

Chris

[Jackson Duvalier]

13 hours ago, Slater said:

Those early Mk 4 motors on the 2.75 inch rockets weren't the most accurate and even a full salvo wasn't guaranteed to hit anything (unless the range was REALLY close, I would think). The later Mk 40 motor introduced scarfed nozzles, which gave the rocket a spin resulting in somewhat improved accuracy.

Obligatory "Battle of Palmdale" reference.

 

TL;DR version: Hellcat drone goes haywire over Los Angeles, two Scorpions are scrambled to intercept, target is acquired, salvoes are fired, 208 rockets fail to connect with drone but successfully fall to earth, mayhem ensues below, drone eventually bumbles into the desert on its own.

 

Quote

The final set of rockets were fired while the Scorpions faced Palmdale; many landed within the town. "As the drone passed over Palmdale's downtown, Mighty Mouse rockets fell like hail".[1] "Edna Carlson, who lived in the home on Third Street East, said that a chunk of shrapnel from one Air Force rocket burst through the front window of her home, ricocheted off the ceiling, went through a wall and came to rest in a kitchen cupboard."[2] More rocket fragments completely penetrated a home and garage on 4th Street East. One rocket landed right in front of a vehicle being driven west on California State Route 138 near Tenth Street West, of which one tire was shredded and many holes were punched through the car's body.[8] Two men in Placerita Canyon had been eating in their utility truck; right after they left it to sit under the shade of a tree, a rocket struck it destroying it. Many fires were started near Santa Clarita, with three large ones and many smaller ones in and around Palmdale.[9]

 

It took 500 firefighters two days to bring the brushfires under control. 1000 acres were burned.[1][10] There were no fatalities.[11]

 

 

Good luck with your model, Chris.  I've always had a soft spot for the F-89.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Jackson Duvalier

[Chrisj2003]

6 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

Obligatory "Battle of Palmdale" reference.

 

TL;DR version: Hellcat drone goes haywire over Los Angeles, two Scorpions are scrambled to intercept, target is acquired, salvoes are fired, 208 rockets fail to connect with drone but successfully fall to earth, mayhem ensues below, drone eventually bumbles into the desert on its own.

 

 

 

Good luck with your model, Chris.  I've always had a soft spot for the F-89.

Me too, when I looked for this I realised I had 5 Scorpions, all different, in the stash, and none built. 

 

Chris

[Wez]

Chris,

 

One thing to note is the Skylancer Decals notes state the Hobbycraft/Academy F-89J wing tip tanks aren't the correct shape whereas the Revell ones are correct.  It may be worth robbing a Revell kit that you're going to do as a D if you've got one.

[Flankerman]

4 hours ago, Chrisj2003 said:

Me too, when I looked for this I realised I had 5 Scorpions, all different, in the stash, and none built. 

 

My nomal fare is Soviet/Russian aircraft - but I also have a soft spot for the Scorpion - so much so, I built SIX of them.....

 

 

More here....

 

Ken

 

[Finn]

It is quite possible the ANG had the AIR-2A Genie available, they would only be loaded during alerts or events like the Cuban Missile Crisis and not flown due to the possibility of an accident.

 

Jari

[Chrisj2003]

Happily building J in GB. Looked at doing the Hobbycraft three but the decals range from incomplete (missing step routes, no step, etc) to crude.  Are there really no AM sheets for the F-89C and H?  There look to be AM sheets for the J but I’m happy with the Academy and Skylancer decals I’ve got for the J.

 

Regards, 

Chris

[bobmig]

I think it's unlikely the ANG of a state would ever have access to nuclear weapons... unless federalized in wartime conditions. However, they may well have trained with dummy rounds to keep their skills sharp.

Bob

[Chrisj2003]

So going with the idea the Guard only had Genies on the F-89J and may never have flown with them live. But would use dummy rounds; same o/a white as live rounds? Gloss or Matt?

 

Chris

[Finn]

Here is some F-89 ANG info that may be useful:

 

https://www.crmap.org/reports/176th-fighter-squadron-badgers

 

As mentioned they most likely never flew with live ones, however during William Tell firing exercises they probably fired off a few, with live motors and spotting charge warheads, Overall flat white with a brown band - designating the live rocket motor, just aft of the warhead. The warhead on the live ones were a semi-flat white. 

 

Jari

[11bravo]

No US interceptor (regular AF or Guard) ever flew operationally with a live nuclear missile.   At best, as mentioned by Jari, they might have had training rounds fitted on rare occasion.   That being said, some ANG units were authorized to carry this weapon.   It was a major pain for the Guard units since that required all unit members to go through a very rigorous Personnel Reliability Program (PRP) which entailed background checks, psychological screenings, additional training, compliance inspections, etc.   As far as whether any guard units kept live Genies at their home station, that is a bit less clear.   I believe that a few large bases had some in storage (which had it's own set of very burdensome training and infrastructure requirements), in most cases though, I believe the weapons would have been distributed by the AF if the cold war ever went hot.