Canadian Grey 501-109

[Smudge]

I have been following the progress of the Transport Wings 1/72 Canadair CP-107 Argus conversion set, and contemplating purchasing one. 

 

This has turned my thoughts (again) to how best to properly represent the colour scheme of Canadian Grey 501-109. To my eye a slightly bluish/green grey. I remember seeing Canadian Sea Kings and Argus' in this scheme in the 70's 80's and it was always quite striking. Not really grey at all. White Ensign/ColourCoats did used to stock this colour, but unfortunately this is long out of production and I certainly haven't been able to source any.

 

I have to say I'm not keen on mixing up a match myself, as reproducing it again for other builds would probably not go well. I would not be happy with several models all in varying approximate mixes.

 

So, what is the current thinking regarding a match for this elusive colour, Canadian Grey 501-109?

 

[Asmodai]

You may be out of luck on the WEM colour, but maybe this will help - it talks about 501-109s use as a Canadian Navy color, but also as on aircraft/helicopters like the Sea King. And suggests a couple of possible mixes using Tamiya or Model Master paints. 

http://www.resinshipyard.com/pages/colours.html

Edited October 6, 2020 by Asmodai

[Smudge]

Thank you for that. I think I will have to check out the Tamiya XF-12. The Model Master mix is probably a bit too hit and miss, but does have the blue/green element which is interesting.

[Blimpyboy]

I agree that XF-12 is okay at representing the greenish cast of 109 as used on aircraft, but I preferred to use a slightly toned down Humbrol 23 - it looked a tad closer (less grey), to my eye.

 

FWIW, the old Flight Colours decal sheets recommend “...501-109, can be approximated by Humbrol 23 or Compucolour ADC or COIN Grey”.

 

I also managed to get a relative in Japan to go through my study and find my notes for 501-109.

The mixes I have are:

1. Humbrol - 2 x Hu2 + 2 x Hu15 + 60 x Hu40 + 85 x Hu22.

2. Gunze - 1 x H41 + 1 x H45 + 5 x H61 + 20 x H11.

3. Tamiya - 1 x XF18 + 3 x XF2 + 5 x XF12.

Sadly, I was unable to get the info about my sources for these mixes, so you may want to experiment a little...

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[Smudge]

Humbrol 23 (with some white?) could certainly be a close match. I'll have to do a couple of test patches.

 

ADC/COIN Grey.......... I don't really think that would be right. 

 

The mixes are a bit too complex for me I'm afraid. But food for thought.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Blimpyboy]

I do recall that straight Hu23 was a bit strong on the green side, so (and I can't remember how) I did tone it down with some kind of grey!

 

I did; however, find the website in which the Gunze mix is mentioned (this site also has pictures of the model Canadian Sea King this mix was used on): https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/cp-122-neptune-rcaf-t30379.html

 

 

 

There may also be some useful tips here:

 

http://hedgehoghollow.com/buzz/Colour_Guide/aircraft_clr.html

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/222330-cp-107-argus/

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/131700-canadian-tracker-color/

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/131144-rcafcaf-501-109-paint/

 

https://www.ipmscanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/RT-Vol-37-4-Article-Text.pdf  (do a find-on-page search for "That Elusive Canadian shade - Grey, 1-GP-12c 510-109").

 

The link above contains this advice:

"That said, if you're set on using 501-109, a Tamiya colour mixing recipe is;

5 PARTS TAMIYA XF-12 JN GREY

3 PARTS TAMIYA XF-02 GLOSS WHITE

1 PARTS TAMIYA XF-18 MEDIUM BLUE

European based aircraft had a lot of weathering that effected this colour so adjust the ratio as you wish".

 

The link above contains this advice:

"Frank’s Model Master Mix for Grey 501-109
5 parts FS 36440 Gull Gray
3 parts Flat White
1 part USSR Interior Blue-Green."

 

Finally, there's:

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[Smudge]

Blimpeyboy, thank you very much for all that info, and the links. I have had a quick look and will go back through them in a bit more detail.

 

That's Great, Thank You.

[Giorgio N]

Are you ok with using Lifecolor paints ? And can you find them in your area ? If so you may try their UA141 "French Grey", that is listed as a match for FS 16473 but is IMHO not too accurate, being a bit too.... bluish/green. It's hard to properly judge from pictures, but the pain in my bottle looks pretty close to the one you're looking for. Of course only by having the paint in your hands you may decide if it's a decent match, reason why it would be good to find a bottle and compare it directly

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I wrote a reply to this last night but can't see it now...

 

WEM perhaps caused a little confusion here by releasing 501-109 as paint code M23. By the time I bought Colourcoats it was long gone but M23 still existed now called BS381C-697 Light Admiralty Grey.

 

Online sources variously quote 501-109 as being close to or exactly similar to FSx6480. FSx6480 is very similar in appearance to BS381C-697 Light Admiralty Grey, which we do still make as NARN51.

[Smudge]

Hi @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Thanks for the reply. Here's our original conversation re 501-109.

 

http://britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234996958-rcn-grey-501-109/&tab=comments#comment-3846987

 

I didn't want to drag you into this again, so thank you for the input and info regarding the M23 paint code.

 

I will pop over to your web site and choose a few colours to make up an order, and get a few tins of NARN51. 

 

This does sound very promising 

 

 

[Smudge]

 

4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Are you ok with using Lifecolor paints ? And can you find them in your area ? 

 

Hi @Giorgio N unfortunately not. Rather hard to come by I'm afraid. But thank you for the suggestion.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

5 minutes ago, Smudge said:

Hi @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Thanks for the reply. Here's our original conversation re 501-109.

 

http://britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234996958-rcn-grey-501-109/&tab=comments#comment-3846987

 

I didn't want to drag you into this again, so thank you for the input and info regarding the M23 paint code.

 

I will pop over to your web site and choose a few colours to make up an order, and get a few tins of NARN51. 

 

This does sound very promising 

 

 

Yes it turns out I'm just stupid and didn't realise I had replied but it was a different thread... Doh.

[belcherbits]

Tamiya mix for 501-109

I tried the mix listed earlier and found it pretty good for colour, but too dark. Once you have gone too dark, you need a lot of white to lighten things up.

I doubled the white and even a bit more, and it is still slightly too dark.  I would suggest tripling the amount of white.

I would recommend the following:

5 parts Tamiya XF-12 JN Grey

9 parts Tamiya XF-02 Gloss White

1 part Tamiya XF-18 Medium Blue

This was compared to an actual paint chip (not a printed one) liberated from work when they were throwing these things out.

Mike Belcher, Belcher Bits

[Smudge]

Thanks for the input, Mike. Appreciate the help. Great that you were able to match up to a proper paint chip. 

 

It's the trial and error nature of mixing and the difficulty of reproducing it again that is driving me to find a good off the shelf match. Hopefully Jamie at Sovereign Hobbies has the answer with the M23/NARN51.

 

I'll report back on the results

 

Cheers.