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Disc Camoflage - Panther G: Panther 213, Pz.Reg 31, October '44


Robert Stuart

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Thanks @Retired Bob, @M3talpig.
The longer I look at those photos, the less certain I am.  My guess is that the vehicle left the factory with those covers (camo suggests a Sept '44 build, the photo is credited as Oct '44).


Had a bit of time this morning, so had a look at the kit.


Started glueing the upper hull and turret
panther_014.jpg

 

Thanks to Lee for his warning about the covers on the rear deck.
Basically the side hatches and vents are (marginally) too long for their location gap.  A few swipes with 1000 grit W'n'D paper solved that!

Reason for getting the hull & turret to that state is a know issue with this kit, where the turret sits too high.
A search of the web will confirm that, as will a look at Lee's build, here:


I don't think I'll have that problem (wonder if I have a later version of this kit, and if RyeField have addressed some of the issues?)

panther_016.jpg

Actually, I may have an opposite problem
panther_017.jpg

 

There is a cover for that vent which, if used, may make that inteference worse ... except, of course, my model will be static, so the turret wont need to turn ;)



If the engine covers needed sanding to make them fit nicely; I'm not convinced the turret floor will have the same problem
panther_019.jpg

 

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  • Robert Stuart changed the title to Panther G, early(ish) - that turret!
55 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

My guess is that the vehicle left the factory with those covers

My bad ...i thought you were talking about the main body of the exhaust not the sheet metal covers 

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Guards for exhaust pipes - Starting in May 1944, the exhaust pipe penetrations in the hull rear were protected by welded armour guards, replacing cast armour guards. Starting in June 1944 sheet metal covers were introduced surrounding the sides of the exhaust pipes to hide the glow...“

Panzer Tracts 5-3 Panther Ausf.G

 

I believe C50 represents the earlier cast and C53 the later welded.

 

Either way they were bolted to the rear so @M3talpig is probably right in that you could have both mounted.

Edited by SimonT
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3 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

It's the bit I ringed in red ... except I think I see something like C53 on the right

Dragon give the welded covers, like C53 as the correct covers for a G variant from mid 44, it is difficult to confirm this from photos  either because of the  poor quality or more usually the wrong aspect.

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On 11/10/2020 at 14:38, Longbow said:

Look out for parts marked as “T” sprue. 
The parts tend to be spread over other sprue sections. 

Took me a little while to pick up on that Lee, sorry.
I have sprue "T" as transparent.

I wonder if you have an different version of this kit?

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2 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

Took me a little while to pick up on that Lee, sorry.
I have sprue "T" as transparent.

I wonder if you have an different version of this kit?


I don’t have a transparent sprue. 
That’s probably why mine were scattered across other sprues. 

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(this is more or less what I said in Peter Roberts's threadBeen looking at the the turret and the turret ring ...

They will can be built as RyeField say in the instructions, but .. there is a but.

Two things to watch
1) If you fit the turret ring (A2) above the hull top (L18), the joint is so tightly engineered that the ring can feel as if it is in properly, but may be high on one side.  This will lead to a larger gap under one side of the turret than the other.
Press A2 down on all sides, and it should seat correctly.

If you glue A2 to A1, you'll probably avoid this bit of the problem (I may be wrong, but, I can't believe this is 'correct' despite RyeFields instructions)

panther_022.jpg
 

 

2) the turret base (A1) needs to be settled into the main turret properly, or it too will give you one high side.
I glued that base before attaching the turret front or rear, and wound up moving it to deal with this problem. 


Dry fitting the turret rear - the gap at either side is a (very) little too big.
That's my fault, dry fitting without the base, that turret rear fitted well.
panther_023.jpg

On the up side, the turret turns smoothly now - that right hand rear corner stopped interfering with the vent.

 

 

On another track, a parcel with some goodies arrived today ...

panther_025.jpg

 

 

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I've been quiet here for a few days - but that doesn't mean the modelling has stopped!

I've made a start on the gun barrel, and the ... well, not the trunions, and not the mantlet

panther_026.jpg

 

Adding the elevator mechanism was a mistake at this stage - I will not get the mechanism through the front of the turret after gluing the turret floor (see my previous post).
Not insurmountable, I have an approach that might work - or a couple of approaches, but the second is ... not so clever.

The hull top is progressing too
panther_027.jpg

Getting to the stage where the breakie off bits will go on

The rear plate has been assembled too
panther_028.jpg

 

I've gone with two welded exhaust covers - still not sure the one on the left shouldn't be a cast example.


More goodies arrived through the post
panther_029.jpg

 

I've been wanting to try Hataka paint for a while - now is my chance.
And some Uschi stencils: the Sennelager ones came in the same package as the paint; the disc camo came direct from Uschi.

No excuses now for not building Panther 123 of Pz.Reg 31

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  • Robert Stuart changed the title to Panther G: Panther 123, Pz.Reg 31, October '44
5 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

I've been wanting to try Hataka paint for a while - now is my chance.

I have that Hataka paint set, I found it sprayed ok as long as the ambient humidity was not too high when it would build up very quickly on the needle tip.

Going back to using the correct (for the date) fittings on late Panthers.  I found a couple of pictures taken in mid January 45 of a damaged Panther G, the mantlet with chin extension and the high fan cover would date its manufacture to late December 44 but the rear photo showing where the Panther had been hit showed rounded cast exhaust covers and no louvres over the right hand air intakes.

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32 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

I have that Hataka paint set, I found it sprayed ok as long as the ambient humidity was not too high when it would build up very quickly on the needle tip.

Going back to using the correct (for the date) fittings on late Panthers.  I found a couple of pictures taken in mid January 45 of a damaged Panther G, the mantlet with chin extension and the high fan cover would date its manufacture to late December 44 but the rear photo showing where the Panther had been hit showed rounded cast exhaust covers and no louvres over the right hand air intakes.


I’m thinking that there was a lot of mix and match at that time. 
Sub contracts would fall behind, and older stock in the warehouse would get used. 
I was looking at a photo earlier of a later hull build with no chin on the mantlet. 

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3 minutes ago, Longbow said:


I’m thinking that there was a lot of mix and match at that time. 
Sub contracts would fall behind, and older stock in the warehouse would get used. 
I was looking at a photo earlier of a later hull build with no chin on the mantlet. 

That's what I've found out as well, the mantlet without the chin extension were still being used right to the bitter end, none of the Panthers built by Daimler-Benz had the larger self cleaning idlers.  So as you say older stock would be used, I wonder if there was a shortage of wheels in Sept 44?  So the stock of steel wheels for the Panther F were used on 23 G's they were building.  Throw in the I/R modifications and it would seem that there is no such thing as a standard Panther G build. :unsure:

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1 hour ago, Retired Bob said:

I have that Hataka paint set, I found it sprayed ok as long as the ambient humidity was not too high when it would build up very quickly on the needle tip

Thanks for the heads up Bob - I'll keep an eye on that build up.
I have tried the Dunkelgelb with a hairy stick - that went on very well.

55 minutes ago, Longbow said:

I’m thinking that there was a lot of mix and match at that time. 

24 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

it would seem that there is no such thing as a standard Panther G build.

Makes sense

FWIW, I think this Panther was a September '44 build, probably by MNH.  Definatly the 'normal' dished wheels.

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51 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

I have tried the Dunkelgelb with a hairy stick - that went on very well.

That's a surprise, the Hataka box does say it's "Red Line" ie optimised for airbrush use.

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  • Robert Stuart changed the title to Panther G: Panther 213, Pz.Reg 31, October '44

Had a chance to start splashing some paint around ...

Inside the turret
panther_030.jpg

 

That (MiG) cremeweiss looks grey in the pictures than it does IRL.

And onto half of the wheels
panther_031.jpg

 

Had to stop there, since I was called away.

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Some progress to report
The wheels have yet more Dunkelgelb (no photo)

More interesting, the upper hull proceeds, with some etch over the cooling area and the gun is now mounted in the turret
panther_032.jpg

 

Having glued the elevator mechanism to the gun earlier, I had to post the gun in through the lower ring
panther_033.jpg

 

In such dark area, I'll ignore those seam lines.

Another detail that I've worked on is the periscopes - these I painted phthalo green (could have used Tamiya transparent green), cremewiess, and dunkelbelb - leaving the clear windows unpainted.
panther_034.jpg

They look a bit bright on the sprue, but should be OK once mounted.
panther_035.jpg

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Coming along really well Robert! 

 

I notice you and other builders leave the sprues in the hatch openings as you assemble. Is there a reason for that? My instinct is to clean these parts up including removing the sprues before assembling.

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35 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

Coming along really well Robert! 

 

I notice you and other builders leave the sprues in the hatch openings as you assemble. Is there a reason for that? My instinct is to clean these parts up including removing the sprues before assembling.

Thanks Peter.
Leaving the sprues is a matter of mood - this build I am, other builds, I don't.
There is an advantage when those sprues are connecting weak, unsupported plastic struts, but, by this stage, the plastic has good support.

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I built the RyeField tracks.

panther_036.jpg

The RyeField tracks are fine; they are OK; they work.
They do not excite me.

So, I bought some MasterClub tracks, slightly more expensive than the Friulmodel examples, but the moulds are newer, and have less flash.
(I'm not certain, but I suspect that the castings are finer too.)
panther_037.jpg

 

Those pins are harder to use.  The first time I used MasterClub tracks, I bent so many pins, I ditched them, replacing them with wire pins.
This time - at least for the first track, I used the pins as intended.  Having a track jig helped a lot.

panther_038.jpg
A trial fit of track and wheels - there is one pin* here, at about 7 o'clock on the drive sprocket


* A drill bit

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13 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

So, I bought some MasterClub tracks, slightly more expensive than the Friulmodel examples, but the moulds are newer, and have less flash.

All the metal tracks that I have bought in the last couple of years have been from MasterClub, you're right, they are more refined than Fruils but I hate those resin pins. :rant:  On tracks for Panzer IV's the resin pins are quite small but they just become projectiles when you try fitting them with tweezers.  Your Panther will look much better with them.   Now stop playing and get building. :winkgrin:

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