Disc Camoflage - Panther G: Panther 213, Pz.Reg 31, October '44

[Robert Stuart]

Thanks for the heads up @Retired Bob, if they were fitted from October '44, I should remove them (it is likely this vehicle was painted in September)

 

2 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Do you mask the vision ports? If so, how do you do that?

The periscopes are being painted off the tank.

Will I mask them?
On the turret? No.
The cupola is loose, so I can fit the TC's periscopes after painting.  The loader's periscope is accessible, so I'll fit that after painting too.

On the hull
The current plan is to paint the dunkelgelb before adding the driver and radio operator's periscopes.  These will need masking and adding before closing the hull and painting the red and green camouflage.

I've also found, with normal acrylic paints, that minor overspray can be rubbed back (cleaned off) using a wooden cocktail stick - though this stresses the plastic and should only be used as a last resort.  Works on cockpit canopies too.

[Robert Stuart]

Beginning to look like a Panther - the tank given a coat of Dunkelgelb, and some dry fitting



Think there is some lens distortion here - the turret does not look so big in life.

 

Dry fitted: upper & lower hulls, TC's cupola, gun mantle, driver's hatch, loader's hatch (invisible here) and left front mudguard.  That's the right mudguard behind the Panther.

"Lost-Erkennungstafeln" brackets have been removed.  The left one needed more clean-up after painting, hence the bright orange spot at the front of the turret.
Less visible here, the turret front had to be removed and re-attached - the first time, it had fallen forward under the weight of the gun after gluing (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it).

[Jasper dog]

Looking good painted, always a pleasing milestone. 

 

Atb

[Retired Bob]

On 10/11/2020 at 17:17, Robert Stuart said:

Beginning to look like a Panther - the tank given a coat of Dunkelgelb, and some dry fitting

looking good, and it's satisfying when there is a coat of paint on.  Are you ready to tackle the disc camouflage yet?  My Uschi mask sets have arrived, and having studied their pictures on their site you paint all areas green and brown, apply the masks and spray yellow to make the discs, then remove the masks and overpaint the areas that you want to be yellow, that way  you get the green and brown  discs to softly merge into the yellow.  A bit battered but you can see the effect on this picture.

 

[Robert Stuart]

2 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

A bit battered but you can see the effect on this picture.

Thanks, Bob.  That Panther has come in for a bit of a hammering.

I started on the green and brown paints today ...


This is an early stage for the colours - I paint outside, and the light went before I could complete these colours.

@Peter Roberts A change of plan here ... the upper and lower hulls are not glued, so I haven't needed to add any periscopes (yet).

[Robert Stuart]

2 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

Are you ready to tackle the disc camouflage yet?  My Uschi mask sets have arrived, and having studied their pictures on their site you paint all areas green and brown, apply the masks and spray yellow to make the discs, then remove the masks and overpaint the areas that you want to be yellow, that way  you get the green and brown  discs to softly merge into the yellow.

Are you planning to use your masks in this GB?  Think I saw you have three Panthers in production, but only two in the GB?

[Peter Roberts]

You're doing a great job there Robert! I'm still struggling with the first half dozen or so stages, but have had limited time lately so double trouble. As you alluded to earlier, so many parts!

 

It's looking terrific - I'll be happy if I can get something approaching that.

[Retired Bob]

10 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

Are you planning to use your masks in this GB?  Think I saw you have three Panthers in production, but only two in the GB?

Neither of the two that I have in the GB had the disc scheme, the third one was already 90% built so it was not able to be included in the GB, it had been cast aside until I was able to correctly paint a disc scheme.  A work that is still in progress, pass me that paint mule.

[Robert Stuart]

Had a chance to shoot some more paint at my Panther this morning



Not sure about the turret, but I quite like the hull top


I'll probably add more layers of paint, to deal with the flooded areas (shiny patches) before I try the masks.

[Jasper dog]

Looking good!

[Retired Bob]

Nice camouflage painting, I'm following the Uschi instructions and covering almost all the yellow paint with the green and brown, then I will reapply the yellow after the disc pattern has been sprayed on.  My bubble camouflage has been over-sprayed with just a hint of the yellow between the other colours.  I'll post some pictures when it's done, before and after shots.  Looking at your model (here I go again) I notice on the right side of the mantlet beneath the lifting lug are two welded on brackets, these were for part of the I/R system and would not have been added to a Panther of your build date.  I've removed them from my 44 build Panthers, now they are only on the 45 build along with the chin extension.

[Robert Stuart]

Thanks again for the heads up Bob

 

[Robert Stuart]

As suggested by @Retired Bob, the IR brackets have been removed from the gun mantle, and a start has been made on the ambush camo



The stencil is fairly easy to use but it does need weeding for the holes before use.
Follow Uschi's directions, exercise patience,  and it is fine (or has been so far).  One change I made was ... Uschi suggests using glass to catch the holes - a flat metal ruler did the job for me, with less risk of breaking and sharp edges.

The shorter section of stencil, in the photo above, was used on the turret.  The longer section was used on the hull - though neither will be much use around the front tool frames.

[Retired Bob]

18 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

The shorter section of stencil, in the photo above, was used on the turret.  The longer section was used on the hull - though neither will be much use around the front tool frames.

 That's looking good, will you be masking the pattern over the upper surfaces of the hull and turret as well?  I bought both sets of masks, the disc camouflage and the Sennelager Panthers, I haven't compared the two for differences yet, I need to do some weeding first.   Now, sorry about this....again, I have checked your photos and noticed that you have fitted the intake louvres on the right side intakes, these were only fitted when the tower fan was used.  Sorry I did not notice it before. 

[Robert Stuart]

2 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

Now, sorry about this....again, I have checked your photos and noticed that you have fitted the intake louvres on the right side intakes, these were only fitted when the tower fan was used.  Sorry I did not notice it before. 

That's OK Bob, thanks for catching it now.  Fortunately, the upper and lower hulls remain separate, so I could push the louvres off from inside.


In removing the louvres, I've lost some of my smaller lifting hooks. 

 

I'm going to have to do some re-spraying, having allowed myself to become carried away with the stencils, and become heavy-handed with the spray.

 

By keeping the spray light, and exercising patience (allowing the stencil to dry from time to time) you can avoid some of the mistakes I made here.

The back plate ...

Here I've used some of the smaller stencils (though I can see a bit of retouching is needed here too).

Exhausts and covers are dry fitted.


 

3 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

I bought both sets of masks, the disc camouflage and the Sennelager Panthers, I haven't compared the two for differences yet

The disc camouflage is (IMO) neater and more traditional than the rather shattered Sennlager style I've used here.
I wanted to model a Heer (as opposed to SS) Panther G with disc camouflage, but the only references I could find were to this one with the Sennlager camo.

There are more options on the Panther A, but by the time I learnt that, I'd committed to a G.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ok I admit Im not the most well versed when it comes to armor. Im familiar with the disc camouflage through photo research but not well versed. Was the Disc similar to the Ambush schemes but a different approach to the sane idea ? Seems like a lot of extra work, however if it worked I guess worth it ?  

[Retired Bob]

9 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

The disc camouflage is (IMO) neater and more traditional than the rather shattered Sennlager style I've used here.

I was just going to post this, I compared the two masks last night and came to the same conclusion.  I will do some more photo gazing before deciding which mask to use.  I watched the Uschi masking video again, you mentioned they recommend the use of a piece of glass to ensure all the waste pieces are removed, as you can hold it up to the light, I think clear perspex is safer and achieves the same result. 

[Retired Bob]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Was the Disc similar to the Ambush schemes but a different approach to the sane idea ? Seems like a lot of extra work, however if it worked I guess worth it ?  

Hi Dennis, the problem I have found researching German camouflage schemes is the range of patterns, especially when they were painted at unit level.  When they started applying camouflage at the factory numerous schemes were used, some were only used by one manufacturer so that can be used as an identifier.  The usual camouflage that is called ambush consisted of dots on a contrasting colour while the disc scheme used a cardboard mask to spray dunklegelb over the green and brown forming discs of those colours.  Here is a Sennelager disc pattern, pity about all the branches. 

 

[Robert Stuart]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Seems like a lot of extra work, however if it worked I guess worth it ?  

The disc camouflage added to the time spent in the paint shop, delaying production and increasing the amount of paint used per vehicle.
I don't know what research the Germans did before putting it into production, but the idea was short-lived and appears to have been applied inconsistently.

Take a look at Archer's pages on the subject: https://archertransfers.com/DiscTome.html
There are four more pages about the camouflage on that site (linked from that page)

Just seen Bob's reply

[Robert Stuart]

49 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

 use of a piece of glass to ensure all the waste pieces are removed, as you can hold it up to the light, I think clear perspex is safer and achieves the same result. 

I also used a raking light to see the edges of the holes

 

[Retired Bob]

1 minute ago, Robert Stuart said:

I also used a raking light to see the edges of the holes

A raking light?  weeding of the holes?  Robert are you getting your gardening and modelling hobbies mixed up. 😄

[M3talpig]

This is a Befehlswagen Panther of the Hermann Goering division ........ interesting mix of camo patterns

 

[Longbow]

4 hours ago, M3talpig said:

This is a Befehlswagen Panther of the Hermann Goering division ........ interesting mix of camo patterns

 

It has a replacement turret. 
Daimler Benz by the look of the factory camo on the turret. 

[Retired Bob]

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I had problems buying the Uschi disc masks because they were out of stock, If they were such good sellers, where are all the disc camouflaged Panthers?  After spending a couple of days removing all the waste material from the masks, (a worse job than riveting) and trying to get them to adhere to a lumpy tank I think I have the answer, it's such a PITA to do.  Then again if it were easy.....

So here was my first attempt at disc camo, using the MXpression masks, pretty cra rubbish so it had to go.

Here is the the second attempt using the Uschi Sennelager Panther masks and some fill in with the Archers dry decal sheets that I had.

Just got to keep going, bit by bit.  Learning by my mistakes as I go along, the next one will be better

Sorry  to keep hijacking your build Robert, but I hope it's of interest to you, How's your disc camouflage going?

[Robert Stuart]

That looks good @Retired Bob.    Did you avoid the cluttered areas (front tool rack and the engine deck)? I have.

Did you clean up all of your masks in one go?
I've only used one strip of mask so far, together with some smaller masks on Sennlager sheet.  While it took some effort, it didn't take too much time cleaning up, though there will be more clean up pain to follow.

Is this a test model?

If not, I'd have a concern: the Sennlager scheme appears to have been used right at the end of the disc camo period; in September '44 and, maybe, into October '44.  That would have been after the end of the Zimmerit period.