Disc Camoflage - Panther G: Panther 213, Pz.Reg 31, October '44

[Retired Bob]

2 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

That looks good @Retired Bob.    Did you avoid the cluttered areas (front tool rack and the engine deck)? I have.

Just working my way to them, the next one I build I am leaving off all the tool and spare track racks.  It will be easier to paint, not sure if adding all those bits will be easy.

I've only used one strip and some fill in bits as well, just cleaning up as I go along.

2 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

Is this a test model?

It did start off as a test model, but as I liked how it was going I thought, what the heck, it might have been applied to some of the last zimmeritted Ausf.Gs. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Retired Bob
missing word

[Retired Bob]

On 18/11/2020 at 21:26, Robert Stuart said:

If not, I'd have a concern: the Sennlager scheme appears to have been used right at the end of the disc camo period; in September '44 and, maybe, into October '44.  That would have been after the end of the Zimmerit period.

You're right Robert, this style of camoflage is too late for a zimmerit covered Panther, so It's gone, re-sprayed and the disc scheme is now being applied.  There were other aspects that I was not happy with, to give some strength to the Uschi strips of masking material there is a border with no pattern holes, which looks wrong when it's applied  to the model.  I know the real thing had imperfections, but they were never entered into a model competition. 

On 18/11/2020 at 21:26, Robert Stuart said:

If not, I'd have a concern: the Sennlager scheme appears to have been used right at the end of the disc camo period; in September '44 and, maybe, into October '44.  That would have been after the end of the Zimmerit period.

You're right Robert, this style of camoflage is too late for a zimmerit covered Panther, so It's gone, re-sprayed and the disc scheme is now being applied.  There were other aspects that I was not happy with, to give some strength to the Uschi strips of masking material there is a border with no pattern holes, which looks wrong when it's applied  to the model.  I know the real thing had imperfections, but they were never entered into a model competition. 

[Retired Bob]

On 18/11/2020 at 21:26, Robert Stuart said:

If not, I'd have a concern: the Sennlager scheme appears to have been used right at the end of the disc camo period; in September '44 and, maybe, into October '44.  That would have been after the end of the Zimmerit period.

You're right Robert, this style of camoflage is too late for a zimmerit covered Panther, so It's gone, re-sprayed and the disc scheme is now being applied.  There were other aspects that I was not happy with, to give some strength to the Uschi strips of masking material there is a border with no pattern holes, which looks wrong when it's applied  to the model, you can see this in the photo along  the top edge of the turret.  I know the real thing had imperfections, but they were never entered into a model competition. 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Mike
Fixing double post caused by software error.

[Retired Bob]

On 18/11/2020 at 21:26, Robert Stuart said:

If not, I'd have a concern: the Sennlager scheme appears to have been used right at the end of the disc camo period; in September '44 and, maybe, into October '44.  That would have been after the end of the Zimmerit period.

I've finally come to the conclusion that it's wrong to use this camouflage pattern on a zimmerited Panther, plus in the cold light of day I was not happy how it looked, so it has gone, I've re-sprayed the base colours and started applying the disc pattern, The Uschi disc masks are a lot more fragile than the Sennelager masks, I've already torn one as I removed it and discs have come away from the strip, only to be expected as there are a lot more holes in the pattern. 

 

Sort of double post, the first one would not load so I re-wrote it. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Retired Bob
add notation

[Robert Stuart]

56 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

The Uschi disc masks are a lot more fragile than the Sennelager masks,

Thanks for the heads up, I haven't tried to use the disc pattern yet, though the style appeals to me.

[Retired Bob]

3 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

Thanks for the heads up, I haven't tried to use the disc pattern yet, though the style appeals to me.

They are a lot more work to weed out all the waste material, all those little triangles.   You are going to need your raking light again.

[PlaStix]

Awesome project Robert. Lovely work so far. 

Kind regards,

Stix

[Robert Stuart]

Thanks @PlaStix
I paint outside, so this is stalled for now ... if the weather stays on forecast, I might be able to do something on Saturday 🤞

[Robert Stuart]

Had a chance to look at the excess disc camo on the lower front hull today.

I'll have a think about improving the balance next.

[Redcoat2966]

The one thing about this build is seeing all the alternate build details, especially camo'.....I like this disc camo look.....very distinctive....nice job Robert. 

 

Regards

 

Simon.

[Peter Roberts]

That looks great Robert - one of the most intricate schemes in my book and it looks to me like your nailing it!

[Retired Bob]

You may have noticed that I have been quiet on this thread for a while and this is the reason:

Back in November I said that it would be easier to paint the disc camo if all the spare track hangers and other sticky-out bits were not there, so I built another September 44 Ausf.G without all the bits on to test my theory.  I did think about starting another build thread but I know that I will not finish this Panther in time so it's more of an experiment.   tracks and wheels were all assembled and then slid off the axles for painting (not finished yet) I have started painting the turret but those Uschi masks are a not easy to use and get a tidy disc pattern, I know the real thing was not perfect but I don't want panels of camouflage standing out in the pattern.

[Longbow]

I was actually thinking about the ambush pattern yesterday, and after using Blue Tack on the MNH I was wondering if it would work for ambush. 

[Retired Bob]

1 hour ago, Longbow said:

I was actually thinking about the ambush pattern yesterday, and after using Blue Tack on the MNH I was wondering if it would work for ambush. 

Blue-Tack to do a disc camo? What is this cunning plan?  On this Panther I'm using the Uschi Sennelager pattern masks, the problem I mentioned earlier in the thread is that the strips of masking material have a border to the pattern to give them some strength, but this border stands out in the pattern on the tank and looks wrong.  To remove this border is the time consuming bit, plus getting the mask in amongst any raised detail as this lifts the mask and causes overspray/soft definition of the pattern. 

[Longbow]

8 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

Blue-Tack to do a disc camo? What is this cunning plan?  On this Panther I'm using the Uschi Sennelager pattern masks, the problem I mentioned earlier in the thread is that the strips of masking material have a border to the pattern to give them some strength, but this border stands out in the pattern on the tank and looks wrong.  To remove this border is the time consuming bit, plus getting the mask in amongst any raised detail as this lifts the mask and causes overspray/soft definition of the pattern. 

 

It may be time for you to play with some blue balls....

 

Big balls... small balls.... The world is your oyster

[Peter Roberts]

Or roll into different size tubes and cut into discs?

 

Ok, I'm not good playing with balls......  

[Retired Bob]

2 hours ago, Longbow said:

Big balls... small balls.... The world is your oyster

Not that easy, are you forgetting my bubble effect camouflage using different sized masking disc's, I'm ready to post the photo again, don't make me do it! 

Makes me want a Aero choccy bar, I did buy one but SWMBO snaffled it. 

[Longbow]

The problem you may have with cutting your sausage is deforming your end.........................

 

 

Wait.... That didn't come out right.......

[Retired Bob]

1 minute ago, Longbow said:

The problem you may have with cutting your sausage is deforming your end.........................

To stop your sausage deforming as you cut it.....you would have to make it hard............

 

Wait.....That didn't come out right.....

 

I meant chill it in the freezer. 

[Peter Roberts]

On the other hand, if you do get a bit of deformation, you could always massage it back into shape..... oh dear, that didn't come out right either, did it?   😲

 

 

Sorry Robert - we seem to have gone a bit off track, but hopefully a few ideas here for you? ..... For painting, that is.  

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[Robert Stuart]

11 hours ago, Retired Bob said:

I said that it would be easier to paint the disc camo if all the spare track hangers and other sticky-out bits were not there

I agree. I didn't do a complete job under the hangers - just hope the equipment will camouflage my omissions later.
I have cleaned a run of Uschi's full disc camo, and, yes, it is more fragile than the Sennlager form I used, but not (IMO) much worse ... though I have yet to use it.

 

OK, I need to see if I can get back to this tomorrow - been distracted by RL.

[Retired Bob]

On 14/12/2020 at 15:42, Longbow said:

I was actually thinking about the ambush pattern yesterday, and after using Blue Tack on the MNH I was wondering if it would work for ambush. 

Here is where I am on my Sennelager camouflaged Panther, I keep saying I should finish my 2 Panthers entered in the GB before spending time on this but the challenge to crack this pattern keeps drawing me back.

I started off spraying the hull and turret green and brown, as in the Uschi video, then sprayed the yellow after applying the disc camouflage pattern.  I found it was easier to spray the yellow and then add the disc pattern.  Overlaying the Uschi mask strips to get a seamless pattern has ended in some ghosting of overlying shapes in the pattern.  Still a work in progress but I'm getting the hang of it, then I can finish off the zimmerited Panther with the other disc pattern.

[Robert Stuart]

On 16/12/2020 at 22:14, Retired Bob said:

Overlaying the Uschi mask strips to get a seamless pattern has ended in some ghosting of overlying shapes in the pattern.

If you know to look for it.
Bob, my impression is that, when the original schemes were applied, they were sprayed through cardboard masks.  These masks introduced 'features' that appeared on production vehicles.

[Peter Roberts]

'features' - ? What sort of 'features' have you noticed?

[Retired Bob]

3 hours ago, Robert Stuart said:

Bob, my impression is that, when the original schemes were applied, they were sprayed through cardboard masks.  These masks introduced 'features' that appeared on production vehicles.

Hi Robert, it would be interesting to know how large the actual cardboard masks were for the repeat pattern to appear, I guess we'll never know, over-laying the Uschi masks on the larger areas of the tank does work as long as it's positioned correctly, as you state there would have been errors or features on the real machines but it's trying to keep any errors to a scale effect.  I changed the painting of the yellow to before applying the camouflage pattern because if it went wrong it was very difficult to correct.

 

9 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

'features' - ? What sort of 'features' have you noticed?

I believe Robert means errors or mistakes.