Douglas RB/EB-66 Conversion - or maybe not!***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

This is a project that has been at the back of my mind for well over 20 years, and now the moderators have kindly cleared it, then it might, stress might get done, and then again maybe not as you will see from my later posts as I seem to have aquired a second kit that might not need much work doing!

I bought this 1986 kit back in the early 1990's, and it went into my stash. A few years later I saw the Film BAT*21 with Gene Hackman and got the kit back out with a view to building  an EW one as seen in the film, but then found that the Airwaves conversion set was out of stock and put it back in the stash where it has remained until now. I recently discovered that Italeri had actually reboxed it as the EB-66E version in 1998 but that has been out of production for a while, as have the various conversion sets so it looks like I am going to have to do this the hard way - proper modelling for once!

 

The problem is deciding exactly which one to build. The B-66B pure bomber never really did much and at an early stage the USAF seem to have decided it would be more useful in other roles, so they bought 5 or so RB-66A photo recce versions, followed by a much larger batch of RB-66B also initially photo recce, but later converted, and this was followed by a batch of RB-66C Electronic recce planes. Later these were redesignated EB-66B and C and joined by the EB-66E which seem to have been conversions of redundant B-66B. Over the years many were rebuilt and lost the guns in the short rear tail, replacing it with a longer tail mounting sensors. and because the EW equipment in those days was pretty crude, the "black boxes" and their relevant aerials, blisters and "canoes" were regularly reconfigured to meet specific threats so it is going to be darned nigh impossible to say that the version I end up with is exacly accurate for a particular machine on a particular day, but the as Craig has pointed out, it is equally unlikely anybody will be able to emphatically say that it is wrong - let's just call it representative of the planes that were used to considerable effect during the war in Vietnam for quite a few years! Incidentally there was a WB-66 version as well, alledgedly for weather observations though I suspect it may have done a bit of "snooping" around the Russian borders as well.

 

I am currently researching the sensor fit from the limited information I have available ie the Aerofax book on the B-66 - if anybody has any drawings or pics that could be helpful I would welcome them. This should make an interesting comparison with its "half sister" the EKA-3B Skywarrior I am building at the moment, but more on that later.

 

Incidentally, at the start of this GB I built Italeri's B-57G which is a repackaged version of the B-57B they released in 1985, a year before the B-66B, but that kit is somewhat better detailed than this one - for example Italeri have not bothered to include jetpipes in the Destroyer so the back of the nacelles are see-through. The plastic is a bit patchy too - some flash and the bottom of one of the fuselage halves seemed to be "de-laminating" with a thin skin peeling off like an onion - never come across that before so I could have fun. Also the box art shows the triangular "flap actuator" thingys or whatever they are under the wing like in my Whale, but they are not provided, so it was never going to be a straight OOB build anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited October 8, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

Great to see this one up and running Pete and very interested to see how you tackle the tail conversion.

I think that the RB-66 boxing currently available does have the correct tail and also has markings for an aircraft used over Vietnam.

There are a few missing details from the kit, but then it is the only game in town.

I shall follow your build with great interest mate.

[PeterB]

Thanks Craig,

 

Two possibilites come to mind for the tail as it seems to be a fairly simple shape - laminated plastic core or maybe just a plastic former, and then a coat of milliput and a lot of sanding(and swearing no doubt)! The RB-66 you mention also seems to have an option for an EB-66E I have just noticed, but based in Japan! Certainly might be an option but I will try this and see how I get on as I really do not want to buy yet another kit.

 

Pete

Edited October 6, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

I will try this and see how I get on as I really do not want to buy yet another kit.

I understand exactly what you mean Pete and I believe that this conversion is well within your capabilities.

 

[trickyrich]

this seems to be an interesting project you have found.

 

Another of the lesser known aircraft used in this conflict and suspect their configurations changed as the war progressed, so without specific detail of a particular aircraft then a general representation is fine for her.

 

Gosh looking at the model I would have thought she was a product of an even earlier vintage. As you say she's completely different from the B-57.

 

Good luck with the build, know you'll do a fine job on her, will follow with interests.

 

Unfortunately I've only got the same book as well....I do like the Camo one with the huge sharks mouth!

[PeterB]

Hi Rich,

 

Yes, I have seen that one and may be able to knock up the decs. The E is in some respects far easier than the C version, as the C had most of the antennae inside a canoe and various pods/blisters, and also had pods on the wingtips, at least initially, whereas the E just has a ruddy great "antenna farm" underneath without covers. The main difference is of course the replacement of the short tail with the gun turret with the extended one, but the shape looks relatively easy  - famous last words!. I have put out a request to see if anybody has the old Airwaves or DB Productions conversion kit going spare but am not hopeful. With over 2 months left I should be able to do something - we will see, Think I am going to need a lot more nose weight than the 5g in the Whale - I see Italeri say 20G for their E version, and mine will have a heavier tail I guess - fortunately should be plenty of room up front. Looking at a review I suspect that the book I have is about the only one specifically on this subject and it looks like R/EB-66B,C and E all were in Nam - some of the early B models may still have had the rear gun turret, but without the guns, but confirming that and finding markings is proving difficult.

 

Pete

Edited October 7, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

I've found this pic Pete, can't tell where it was taken or when but its a standard RB-66B in SEA colours, which is unusual. The check markings on the top of the tail could be from the 363rd TRW which were based at Yokota in Japan and I believe saw service over Vietnam.

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-douglas-rb-66b-dl-destroyer-55292884.html

Edited October 7, 2020 by modelling minion

[PeterB]

Thanks Craig,

 

And therein lies the problem. SEA camo RB's are fairly common in pics, but a lot are after the war, others for training, and then quite a few in Japan. some, maybe all could have passed through Vietnam at some point, but there are not many pics with dates, locations in Vietnam of adjoining countries and serials. I do have a list of all machines lost in Vietnam from one cause or another, but annoyingly it does not say which unit they belonged to and so I cannot work out the Tail Codes, which in theory could be JW,RC,RH,and ZT for aircraft assigned to PACAF being 42 TEWS, 388TFW, 41 and 42 of the 355, and 19 TEWS of 18 TFW respectively, but again they may not all have been in 'Nam - still trying to build up a list, made harder by the fact that one or two pics like yours have no visible tail code at all! Some of them cycled through Davis-Monthan aka MASDC more than once as planes were pulled from storage, converted and sent to make up war losses, but within a year or two of the end of the war they went for final disposition and there are a good few pics of SEA camo ones there, many of which probably were involved in the conflict judging by the tail codes - but I cannot prove it!.

 

Later, according to the Aerofax book only two units were seriously active though swopped owners a few times, 42TEWS with codes JW and RH and 41 with RC. 19 TEWS code ZT were based in Cadena Japan. Others passed through as detatchments but did not stay long. That narrows it down a bit.

 

Pete

Edited October 7, 2020 by PeterB

[trickyrich]

Pete I have just found this..

 

https://www.hobbymania.com.au/AES72005 ?filter_name=eb-66

 

They're based in Perth a wee distance from me, they are in stock and at $15 Oz (8.30 GBP) + postage and they do international's sales. You just need to e-mail in that case for price.

[PeterB]

Thanks Rich,

Mail sent - looks like it should do both the C and E versions. Could save me a lot of work. The C was it seems designed more for what we now call ELINT with a bit of jamming, whilst the B and E were the true jammers. More on that as the build progesses.

 

Pete

 

Later,

 

Unfortunately it seems that they do not actually have any and should have removed the listing - thought it was a bit odd as nobody else seems to have them. Bit like the modeller's dream - finding an old model shop hidden away somewhere with shelves stacked with all the kits you wanted but could never find and going cheap. Reminds me of a shop down here 40 years ago run by an old lady who did not bother to open most days. At the back, behind her main display of knitting materials were a handful of model railway items - locos, rolling stock etc, which very few people knew she had. I even had to show her how to work her credit card machine - what we used to call the "chip slicer" where you put the card on the base, put a pressure sensitive sheet of "paper" over it and slid a handle across to get an impression of the card - remember those? When she either retired or died her family boxed everything up and closed the shop, and I tracked them down and bought most of the railway stuff at very reasonable prices.

 

Anyway, back to plan "A".

 

Thanks for the thought Rich.

Edited October 8, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

OK, 

 

Possible change of Plan. Plan "A" is to make a DIY conversion which looks possible and I certainly should be able to manage it after what I did with my old Frog Shackleton last year but I am getting a bit lazy in my twilight years, so I looked at a possible Plan "B" - getting one of the various conversion sets. Unfortunately, that now looks very unlikely, and to be honest the Airwaves one was a bit of a mixed bag. The resin tail was probably fine, but I always find etched aerials look too "two dimensional" and the big blade aerials and the various pods were white metal and really not that good by all accounts so maybe the one supposedly available in Oz was no great loss.

 

Enter Plan"C". I know I said I did not really fancy buying one as all the second hand kits I had seen were on offer for anything from £18 to £28 not including postage, making buying a new one from Hannants probably as cheap if not a lot cheaper. However, I came across one on a well known auction site yesterday which was actually up for auction rather than "Buy me now" at a nice low starting price. When I found out Plan B was no-go I had another look and nobody seemed to want it so I began to think I might give it a good home. To my surprise, although several people bid they were not being that serious (50p increments) and I ended up winning it for £9 (plus postage) so assuming it arrives and is Ok, my B-66B can go back in my stash and I should be able to start on an Italeri EB-66E for no more than I would have paid for the conversion set Rich spotted! It will still need a fair bit of work, but nowhere near as much. The B-66B can then be built in NMF with bright and colourful markings, but not just now. Should know for sure if and when it arrives in about a week, and I can always revert to Plan A if I have to. The markings Craig drew to my attention will probably still be useful because by the look of it Italeri have the large stars and the alignment as if on a straight wing looks a bit suspect - I will have to check that! Of course I could also use the new kit to cast a replacement tail for the old one and then have a shot at an EB-66C with all the pods and pylons at some stage

 

Pete

Edited October 8, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

Sounds like you are all sorted Pete and it will certainly save you the hassle of having to scratchbuild a replacement tail.

[PeterB]

Hi Craig,

 

Thanks. Although in a way I could be said to have "Wimped Out", I regard it as a cunning plan to get a resin casting of a replacement tail for no more than buying the Airwaves set, and I could run off a batch, but let's wait and see what it is like when it turns up! The Almark sheet suggests using Hunter drop tanks for the wingtip tanks on the EB-66C and I have plenty of those spare - they could even form the basis for one or two of the underside bulges. As I will explain later the EB-66C and E worked in pairs most of the time so we will see how mad I really am!

 

Pete

Edited October 8, 2020 by PeterB

[trickyrich]

that's a shame Pete, though i have had that happen to me a couple of times before.

 

But it sounds like you may have a cunning plan so will be interested to see what you have inshore for us.

[PeterB]

Hi Guys,

 

I will definitely build one  and maybe even 2 just to please Enzo - time will tell.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Well, my EB-66E kit is on its way. The chap I bought it from says it is a nice kit - seems he built one recently. However he goes on to say "he wishes he built it with the airbrakes open and the wings folded as it would have saved a lot of sanding"! AFAIK the B-66 deleted the wing fold of the A-3B, and in any case I think Italeri do not give that option, so that is a little strange. Oh well, I expected I would have to do some work - it is after all an old mould. I will post a pic when it arrives in a week or so.

 

Pete

[modelling minion]

I think he might be a little confused there, as there was never a B-66 with folding wings.

[PeterB]

Hi Craig,

 

At first I though he might be confusing it with an A-3B but one of the complaints in the review was that they did not provide an open airbrake option, and although the wing did fold in real life, Hasegawa did not provide that option either, so maybe he has been over doing the celebrations for having sold the kit - mind you at that prce it is more likely to be commiserations!

 

Pete

[PeterB]

The replacement kit has arrived.

The plastic looks good with very little flash, but the decs are decidedly showing their age. Not only have Italerii remoulded the fuselage to include the long tail and also to put locating marks on for the aerials, but they appear to have remoulded the lower wings as they now have the triangular flap actuators on which were missing from the original kit. The only other thing they could have corrected is the back end of the engine nacelles, but looks like I am still going to have to sort that out myself. I may still have a go at converting my first kit to an EB-66C at some stage, but for the moment I will content myself with assembling the new EB-66E kit.

 

So, on with the background story.

When Douglas produced the large twin jet A-3B Skywarrior for the USN in 1953 the USAF were interested. They decided to buy some themselves and the thinking was that by combining a large part of the structure of the A-3B, less the naval fittings such as arrestor hook and folding wings and tail, with a new purpose built fuselage it would be both a relatively cheap and fast build. Needless to say the reality was somewhat different and by the time the B-66 Destroyer, as it was called, first flew there was very little of the A-3B design left but at least it did have ejector seats unlike the A-3B! At least one author claims that around 90% of the changes were not really needed but were done just to make it different from the A-3B to satisfy the USAF's reluctance to have a plane like one the Navy already flew! Actually, it was not a bad design, with a top speed of around 594mph, capable of carrying a bombload of around 15000lb and with a range of 1500 miles, but by the time it entered service in 1956 the Martin built version of the Canberra, the B-57, was already to some extent doing the job the B-66 was intended for so only 72 of the B-66B bomber version were built. However, it appears that the USAF Tactical Air Force (TAC) had also established a need for photo/electronic recce assets as it was initially reliant on information from the few converted bombers operated by SAC, so they decided to also order the RB-66 photo-recce version which actually flew first, with 5 RB-66A being followed by 149 RB-66B with improved engines. From then on a number of versions were either built from new or converted from other previous builds, including the RB-66C electronic recce version, the WB-66D weather plane, and later a number of converted EW versions such as the EB-66B, C, and E which saw service over Vietnam.

 

Initially the RB-66C was intended for what we would call ELINT, replacing versions of the B-26 Invader and B-45 Tornado in this role, and prowled the borders of the USSR and other countries picking up signals, but in the later EB-66C version it was given some jamming capability. However, in May 1959 a batch of 13 surplus B-66B's were modified under the code name “Brown Cradle”, with the “gun tail” being replaced by the longer ECM tail which seems to have been a standard “optional” fit, and a pallet of jamming equipment installed in the sealed up bomb bay. Initially these EB-66B were allocated to USAFE but some, possibly 9, would later be sent to Vietnam as the war flared up. The jamming capabilities of the EB-66C would later be improved, and a new conversion, the EB-66E would arrive with more modern equipment.

 

The problem with the early jamming equipment was that it had very limited frequencies, so the EB-66C was used to map what radars were in a particular area, and then the jammer arrays on the B - it had 26 I think, were set up accordingly. There was one adjustable transmitter but it only had 3 different frequencies available, so every time the enemy changed things round the jammers had also to be changed and so these EW versions had a bewildering array of fairings, canoes, pods and a veritable “farm” of antennae fitted, which were changed around to suit whatever threat they were aimed at. This makes determining the actual fit of any particular machine at a certain point in time well night impossible. The jamming aerials on the C were eventually made steerable and the E when it arrived in August 1967, had a few less antennae which could mostly be individually tuned allowing more power to be used on each selected enemy radar or radio frequency.

 

More later.

 

Pete

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Not sure what is going on with the BM site at the moment - I seem to have lost the "edit" option!

 

Pete

 

OK, Mike has explained that it is now available form the "More Options" menu - three dots in the top right corner

Edited October 12, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

Good to see that your replacement kit arrived safe and well Pete.

Interesting that Italeri improved the wings on this one as well as changing the tail.

[PeterB]

As you can see I have made a start on the cockpit.

Unlike the A-3B, the B-66 was fitted with ejector seats. The Aerofax book says they were of Douglas Manufacture so I assumed that meant Escapac, but later found that they were actually manufactured by a company called Aircraft Mechanics Inc according to the “ejectionseat” website. The kit provides a basic seat with two separate and quite nicely detailed sides to glue on and they do look quite like the pics I have seen. The cockpit is quite “busy” and Italeri have included numerous consoles, but do not appear to have changed the layout from their B-66B kit which may be wrong as the navigator and EW operator swapped sides in this version apparently. It appears that the EB-66B and EB-66E retained the original 3 crew in the cockpit, whilst the WB-66D and the EB-66C added 2 weather observers and 4 extra EW crew in the rear fuselage respectively, again with their own ejector seats, but in this case ejecting downwards.

 

Final part of background narrative follows!

In October 1965 USAFPAC requested jamming aircraft so 9 of the 13 “Brown Cradle” EB-66B conversions were sent to 'Nam to be joined by EB-66C. The SA-2 Guideline had a range of about 17 nautical miles, so the C's would prowl about just out of range monitoring the radar and radio communications, whilst the B's would act as escorts going in a bit closer with the strike package and jamming. The same basic philosophy applied when the E's replaced the B's though obviously it was varied to suit the particular situation, and the C's would do some jamming as well though they were not as powerful. Once the enemy worked out what was happening they began to reposition their SAM's to set traps, and also targeted the jamming aircraft with their fighters, so that they in turn needed escorts. A number of units sent EB aircraft on detachment and the naming and grouping of the units changed several times but the main operators were to become 41 TEW operating mostly as part of 355 TRW at Takhli RTAFB, with a short spell as part of 432 TRW at Udorn and being deactivated in October 1969, and 42 TEW which was also part of 355TRW at Takhli until September 1970 when it became part of the 388TFW at Korat RTAFB, finally being withdrawn in January1974. In December 1967 41 TEW had 14 EB-66B/E and 6 EB-66C whilst 42 TEW had 15 B/E and 6 C.

 

6 EB-66 were shot down, one EB-66B and 4 EB-66C by SA-2 SAM and one EB-66C by an Atoll from a Mig 21, and another 9 lost through other causes including 2 “B”, 2 “E” and 4 “C” plus another unknown – the increasing weight of equipment left the aircraft underpowered in conditions in South East Asia and loss of an engine on take off was almost invariably fatal. There were 13 EB-66B conversions, 36 EB-66C and at least 50 EB-66E produced out of a total production of 294, almost exactly the same at the number of A-3 Skywarriors built for the Navy (297 including 2 prototypes I believe) and yet the B-66 seems to far less well known although they seem to have been the first real EW planes developed by the USAF since the end of WWII! They were crude by modern standards and not too far in advance of the machines used by the RAF 100 Group in some respects, but they did valuable work and no doubt saved many lives by jamming hostile radar, missiles and radio communication.

 

The above info is from both the Aerofax book and a copy of a paper for the Airpower Research Institute called “Sparks over Vietnam”which is an assessment of the early history of US electronic warfare. This is a somewhat simplified version of course.

 

The kit probably has less parts than the EKA-3B and so the build should be reasonably quick I hope  - the painting will be the thing that takes time as ever.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

[PeterB]

Slightly better fit than I thought as the cockpit floor rests on top of the nose wheel bay holding it down.

The instructions call for 20g weight so I have put 25g in split between either side of the wheel bay and in front of it, just to be safe.

Not the best fit I have ever had, but neither is it the worst by a long way - it will need a little filler, but not too bad. The Air Force changed the cockpit design completely compared with the A-3B and as you can see the "Guys in the Back" were somewhat in the dark - perhaps deliberately as it might make it easier to see their displays. Still, they would have been better off than the poor souls in the former bomb bay of the EB-66C who had no natural light at all! After all the fiddling about with the cockpit, only the front part is actually visible, and the pilot has very little all round view. A bit reminiscent of the Vigilante cockpit layout to me.

 

Italeri say the legs, bays and inside of the doors were "silver" - I will need to check that as the underside gray seems more likely to me - that or white or even interior green. At this stage the main gear bays look almost the same as those on the Whale and the retraction mechanism is essentially the same though the wheels are bigger, but the wheel doors are totally different - 3 instead of 1! I am beginning to think that the chap who said the Air Force changed almost everything just to be different from the Navy has a point!

 

Pete

Edited October 13, 2020 by PeterB

[modelling minion]

Nice work on the cockpit Pete and on getting the fuselage halves together, looks like you got a nice joint.

[PeterB]

Hi Craig,

 

The joint is fair but at the top it is "dished" so out with the filler. Could have been worse I suppose. Fair bit of rescribing will be

needed unfortunately.

 

Later,

I have scraped, filled and sanded 3 times now and rescribed - it is still far from perfect but it is going to have to do - at least the SEA camo might make it less obvious. On the plus side I am pleased to say that for once one of my harebrained schemes "cunning plans" has actually worked pretty well and I have now have a darned nigh perfect replacement long tail available should I get round to converting the original B-66B kit into an EB-66C.

 

Ok. I know it is grey and white but it is not another Whale - it is just primer. This time I did the unders in white to reduce the number of coats of light gray needed - I hope!

There is of course a strong family resemblance, at least superficially, but the B-66 fuselage is not as deep. The masking tape on the tail is to remind me where the panel lines are as they are very fine engraved ones - the area under the tape appears to be a dielectric panel painted either black or buff and by the time I have put the camo on I doubt I could find the lines without the tape to guide me. I have also put Humbrol Maskol over the locating marks for the big side aerials. One strange thing is that on the boxtop pic of the B-66B in NMF it looks almost like the forward fuselage had horizontal "corrugations" (you can see them in the pic at the top of this thread) but there is no sign of them on either kit! Presumably the artist was trying to show slight wrinkling on the panels and overdid it somewhat? This should be a quick build (excluding the various aerials.

 

Pete

Edited October 15, 2020 by PeterB