that Croatian defector's Bf109G.... a colour pic!

[fastterry]

Apologies to dragonlanceHR and Troy Smith. I was so sure that this aircraft was a G-10 and to reinforce my argument I referred to my copy of the Prien & Rodeike book and blow me down at the end of the G-14AS section it showed photos of a couple of machines with deep radiators and lower cowling bumps just like a G-10. So providing the Wk Nr quoted is correct then it is a G-14AS. It seems that one needs a Wk Nr to be absolutely sure of the variant of 109G. Learning all the time.

TRF

[dragonlanceHR]

That's half the fun, innit? 

[JWM]

I have found it - nostalgic for me photo done in 1975  showing  conversion of Airfix old mould Me109 g6 into Croatian G-10 "black 4".  Decals by ESCI. The photo did my colleague or rather friend from my school class, We were 16  years old.  It was done with ancient Zorka (Soviet) camera. This was not a mirror camera although with removable lenses. The photo was done with intermediate rings for makro photography, and without seeing in sight what will be on photo a large part of model was cut out and lost at the picture... Later I sold this model, so it is not with me. Let me share with you with this historical for me attempt of having Croatian "black 4". ...

regards

J-W

Edited October 8, 2020 by JWM

[FalkeEins]

..thanks for this thread Troy - not a machine I've looked at much. I hadn't seen the colour pic either or even been aware of the 'goat head' on the port side...concerning colours the original intelligence report doesn't even get the codes right !

 

 

[Dave Fleming]

On 10/5/2020 at 8:31 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

The model posted  is Black 10 which is a standard G-14,  this is the only pic I know,  but there may well be more

 

 

 

I have two other pics of it in my files both after RAF markings have been applied. One a view of the port side cockpit area (below) and one a full starboard side view.

 

This one is labelled as the 14AS in the Flikr album you shared earlier, but it's clearly the G14
 

 

The external visible difference between the G14/AS and the G10 was apparently the position of the cold weather starter hatch on the starboard side of the nose - on the G10 it was in line with the little hole on the rear of the cowl, on the G14AS it was lower down - this picture of Black 4 shows this clearly (just above the A of viscarra)
 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dave Fleming

[Denford]

Interesting that the aerial line should be so 'slack'.  Understandable on a 190 having a rear sliding canopy, but on a 109 having a side hinged canopy and closed...?

[fernandocouto]

I built a Hobbyboss kit in 2011/12 with decals provided in the kit:

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by fernandocouto
why my pic is very small after uploaded..

[11bravo]

13 hours ago, Denford said:

Interesting that the aerial line should be so 'slack'.  Understandable on a 190 having a rear sliding canopy, but on a 109 having a side hinged canopy and closed...?

Weird...  it looks like they ran the antenna line through the ADF loop.  That doesn't make much sense because I assume that would short out both antennas, not to mention making it difficult to open the canopy. 

[MDriskill]

Very interesting!

 

Several of these images of "Black 4" were recently posted by Mr. Tudor Toader in the Facebook "Late War Bf 109's" group. Below are a couple others from him. The closeup of the rear cockpit posted earlier in this thread, seems to confirm the odd abbreviated antenna wires shown in this color profile.

 

According to "Bf 109 Late Versions" by Krzysztof Wolowski, published by MMP, the 78xxxx serial confirms that this was a G-14AS built by Messerschmitt Regensburg. Even though the small "chin" bulges were not required by the DB 605 AS engine, the theory is that this was done to increase parts commonality with the DB 605 D-engined G-10 and K-4 also being built at that time.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by MDriskill

[Dave Fleming]

15 hours ago, MDriskill said:

Very interesting!

 

Several of these images of "Black 4" were recently posted by Mr. Tudor Toader in the Facebook "Late War Bf 109's" group. Below are a couple others from him. T

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on that group, there was a link to this page which has some pictures of it, including a picture of it after painting in RAF markings I hadn't seen before (rear port side 3/4 view)

https://www.polishairforce.pl/messerschmitt.html?fbclid=IwAR1PBabvgRC4frqU1qaQEr8KdD3l0hgYKSC052zT3zKim_68Yev9mzRCOsw

[Troy Smith]

On 12/10/2020 at 13:04, 11bravo said:

Weird...  it looks like they ran the antenna line through the ADF loop.  That doesn't make much sense because I assume that would short out both antennas, not to mention making it difficult to open the canopy. 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 23:20, Denford said:

Interesting that the aerial line should be so 'slack'.  Understandable on a 190 having a rear sliding canopy, but on a 109 having a side hinged canopy and closed...?

possibly the aerial is just damaged, and that's why it's slack.

It had been removed when it got a repaint

 

from the link posted by @Dave Fleming

Thanks Dave, I'd seen the plane as LW , but don't think I'd connected the dots as to it's identity before.

I was also amused by the shot of W/Cmdr James Storrar, sitting on it, 

 

A man who had his own Yak-9.... note the JAS codes

 

I know it's talked about, but I now note it has the Bulgarian serial triangle clearly visible. Top line is a 2 digit type code, lower line is the serial.

a quick check reveals I got this the wrong way round, as the 4 digit number is the type, and the 2 digit the individual serial... 

see.

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/88194-yak-9-in-british-markings

and

 

[Dave Fleming]

Storrar also had a P-51D with his JAS code converted to a two seater (Now there's thread drift!!)

[Dave Fleming]

Meant to say, this is usually quoted as his KM232 aircraft, but there is a photo showing it was actually KM264
 

 

[Troy Smith]

2 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said:

Storrar also had a P-51D with his JAS code converted to a two seater (Now there's thread drift!!)

Indeed, but a good thread drift on here can go to some very interesting places.

 

a search has not turned a photo,  seems this KM232, (writing as you posted the above) 

 

@Randy Lutz did one

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/mustangivarl_1.htm

Some interesting notes of the plane in the link.

 

 and this article

http://www.venturapublications.com/news/publish/442-RCAF-Mustangs.shtml

 

One for @tonyot if he has not already done this one perhaps?

 

cheers

T

[tonyot]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Indeed, but a good thread drift on here can go to some very interesting places.

 

a search has not turned a photo,  seems this KM232, (writing as you posted the above) 

 

@Randy Lutz did one

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/mustangivarl_1.htm

Some interesting notes of the plane in the link.

 

 and this article

http://www.venturapublications.com/news/publish/442-RCAF-Mustangs.shtml

 

One for @tonyot if he has not already done this one perhaps?

 

cheers

T

Hiya Troy,..... I did build a model of Storrars UK based Mustang KM232 some years ago along with a couple of 442 Sqn RCAF Mustang`s for an article in SAMI about the liberation of the Channel Islands,..... for which they provided air cover.

 

For reference for Storrars Mustang I did use a photo of the real thing as reference and here is the pic and model;

 

And the book;

 

Freightdog Decals do decals for both of Storrars Mustangs,.... both UK and Italian based,... I think? They certainly do his UK based aircraft anyway,

Cheers,

          Tony

Edited October 14, 2020 by tonyot

[tonyot]

Massive thread swing again,...... there were quite a few Mustang Mk.III`s and IV`s (IVA`s) wearing Wing Commanders initials in Italy between 1944-47,...... 

 

There was a Mk.III, FB260 which Wing Commander Brian Eaton RAAF coded as BE,..... taking it over from the previous owner Lt. Col.Wilmot SAAF who also had his codes LW applied. A photo of this aircrft as LW can be seen in the Osprey RAF Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces book,...... artwork as BE can be seen in the excellent book Southern Cross Mustangs.

 

Later Eaton took over Mustang Mk.IVa KH745/BAE 'Marisa' as commander of  239 Wing, RAF, Lavariano, May, 1945, seen here;

I`ve modelled this one as KH745/ BAE,....

and also after it became GA-W with 112 Sqn aircraft;

 

Brian Eaton remained in the Post War RAAF and wore the BAE codes on at least one Post War Australian based Mustang.

 

More `personal' Mustangs;

 

Said to be KM142 flown by Jas Storrar as JAS, note the passenger in the back;

 

BUT,.....most likely the same aircraft,..... showing the serial KM264, again as JAS;

 

KM182 coded as DRS, flown by Group Captain DR Shore, 239 Wing, Italy 1946

 

There were probably more too,.... including Mk.IV`s;

KH790/WHC Lt. Col. W Christie.

KM121/MLD Wg. Cdr. M. Donnet 

 

Also,.... here is another pic and info of Storrars UK based JAS. 

 

And Wing Commander Bird Wilson also wore his initials on a UK based Mustang Mk.III, KH500, HBW with a 17 Sqn mailed glove insignia on the tail,..... this being his old unit;

 

Cheers

           Tony

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by tonyot

[MarkoZG]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:42 PM, Dave Fleming said:

 

Thanks for the heads up on that group, there was a link to this page which has some pictures of it, including a picture of it after painting in RAF markings I hadn't seen before (rear port side 3/4 view)

https://www.polishairforce.pl/messerschmitt.html?fbclid=IwAR1PBabvgRC4frqU1qaQEr8KdD3l0hgYKSC052zT3zKim_68Yev9mzRCOsw

Of note is that on this link there are also some photos of Bücker Bü 181 Bestmann in RAF markings, which was also ex-Croatian AF machine.