L084 - Republic P-47N Thunderbolt. How bad can it be? ** FINISHED **

[TonyOD]

Placemarker for the moment for my second build.

 

Especially for @Wez, Heller's unloved and derided take on the Jug. It is reputed to be an absolute mutt, it doesn't feature in the build list yet (nobody wants to touch it with a barge pole, probably), but you know what, I feel sorry for it. I'll give it a go.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by TonyOD

[Wez]

I can't like this thread enough!

 

This kit was originally L084 from 1975, a true case of the box art flattering to deceive!

 

Go ahead and make it Tony and above all enjoy it!  That's what this GB is all about!

 

Very good luck with this one, twenty years later later, Italeri released a kit of the P-47N which I think was based upon a cartoon version of this kit!

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, TonyOD said:

It is reputed to be an absolute mutt

I seem to recall (I had one unbuilt for many years) that the big problem is the wing,  in that it's basically a standard P-47 wing, with squared off tips.

The actual P-47 wing has 18 inches added into the root for extra fuel tankage, and this pushes the UC further outboard 

this is a N from above

 

and while I found the plan view of the P-47 N easily,  

 

 

 

though this may explain the full reasons

https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/mesnerp47n.htm

 

"The first thing that strikes you, whether viewing it in the box or a completed model, is that the distinctive Thunderbolt cowling doesn’t look right. Not only is is misshapen (looks too large in the front to me), but it seems to hang or droop at an unnatural angle. Unfortunately, it’s molded as part of the fuselage, so fixing this would involve cutting the cowling off and repositioning it in some way, which would be much more difficult than it sounds.

There’s a cockpit, of sorts. The engine is weak, as are the prop, the wheels, and the
landing gear. The canopy isn’t shaped or framed correctly. The shape of the fin doesn’t look quite right.

Well, for $6 (as this is written, currently on sale for $3.96 at Squadron Mail Order), it’s still worthwhile buying one just for the wings, which you could mate to a better P-47D kit to make your own N conversion, right? Sorry, even that won’t work. The wings of the Heller Jug appear to have been engineered and built upside down--there’s airfoil on the bottom but the top surfaces are nearly flat. Was Republic perhaps testing a secret “NASA Supercritical airfoil" wing on the P-47 in the 1940s, and this is what Heller has chosen to model for us? I doubt it. In short, the wings are worthless for transplanting on anything else.

The model is covered in fine raised details and tiny rivets, but at this point, who cares?!"

 

Heller were noted for making some odd mistakes as I recall.  

 

The box art is lovely though  

 

 

 

[TonyOD]

Thanks @Troy Smith. I'd seen that one, as it happens, the guy certainly doesn't pull his punches!

 

This build will be very much in the "it is what it is" category, I'm not going to worry too much about "dimensional irregularities", if something comes out of the other end that doesn't look disgraceful on the shelf and passes my extremely rigorous quality control standards ("can it be mistaken for a Spitfire?") and is fun to build, that will be a result.

 

I think it's important to remind ourselves that when these things were moulded all that time ago it was often with the sole intention of relieving teenage boys of their pocket money, not satisfying the high expectations of an online army of aviation enthusiasts. They would have seen that shiny beast on the box, thought "wow!", shelled out their 35p or whatever, and when they'd finished they would have had a nice looking little plane to display in their bedrooms and in that pre-internet age, unless they had access to an unusual amount of documentation on the P-47, they would have remained blissfully unaware of its funny wings etc. The information age sometimes takes all the fun out of modelling! 😁 

[TonyW]

Well said. 

Sit the finished model alongside that stunning box art and all will be right with the world.

[TonyOD]

The Jug I will be modelling is this one:

 

 

This aircraft was flown by Lieutenant Colonel José Antonio Muñiz of the Puerto Rican Air National Guard, who was killed in a crash when his F-86D Sabre lost power during a formation fly-by on Independence Day, 1960. The home base of the PRANG is named in his memory. the aircraft actually carried the designation F-47N, which apparently was normal for planes in ANG service.

 

I've ordered some decals by Blue Rider (love those stars'n'bars!) and scored some stencils (thanks @RidgeRunner), although in "museum exhibit" guise the plane does look very clean and stencil-free. During service I would imagine it had them. The cowling art is also notable by its absence, and its nose isn't red, it's silver. Some photographs of the aircraft, clearly taken in the same room, show red lightning flashes on the tailfin and wheel covers and the nose art present and correct, so I'm wondering if if it's had a paint job at some time. Anyway, notwithstanding the known issues with the kit I've decided to treat her nice and ordered some resin wheels, as well as a vacform canopy which according to the listing is designed for use if Academy, Hasegawa and Revell kits but for the sake of a couple of quid it's worth a shot.

 

 

Probably going to be a while before I have anything to show, I'm making slow but steady progress with my Leo for the MTO III GB, and I imagine that for the size of the plane my Amiot will be a fairly quick and uncomplicated build (famous last words...) Can't get my head around the idea of simultaneous builds!

 

Thanks for looking 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by TonyOD

[TonyW]

2 hours ago, TonyOD said:

Can't get my head around the idea of simultaneous builds!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Simultaneous builds have been my downfall in every GB I've taken part in. There's always a few that don't make the finish line.

Mind you, I've never built and finished so many kits in so short a time since I joined in! They have changed the way I build models, and the change has been for the better.

[RidgeRunner]

5 hours ago, TonyOD said:

I've ordered some decals by Blue Rider

Nice. I have the Blue Rider Nicaraguan F-47N set. They are nice sets. I’ve used the Chaco War sets a few times.

 

Martin

[TonyOD]

21 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

Nice. I have the Blue Rider Nicaraguan F-47N set. They are nice sets. I’ve used the Chaco War sets a few times.

 

One thing I notice is that they appear to have misspelled the nose art, or rather they haven't... on the aircraft it's "Wild Hair" (some kind of play on words?)  whereas they have it "Wild Hare". I think I'm going to do it without the nose art anyway, it's a bit crude, I'll just use the pic on Wikipedia of all places for reference. The aircraft resides at the Peterson Air & Space Museum in Colorado.

Edited October 4, 2020 by TonyOD

[alt-92]

6 hours ago, TonyOD said:

the aircraft actually carried the designation F-47N, which apparently was normal for planes in ANG service.

More that from 1947 with the start of the US Air Force as a separate branch (instead of Army Air Forces) the P (pursuit) was dropped and F (fighter) was used.

[TonyOD]

28 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

More that from 1947 with the start of the US Air Force as a separate branch (instead of Army Air Forces) the P (pursuit) was dropped and F (fighter) was used.

I see, thanks. Can’t remember where I read this but must’ve been wrong.

[alt-92]

You're not that far off though   The air services arm for the National Guard (the 'well armed militia' from the U.S. Constitution according to some) was instituted by the same measures in 1947 as Air National Guard.

 

[TonyOD]

In a very unusual move (I don’t generally like doing more than one build simultaneously) I’m going to make a start on the Thunderbolt while still plugging away at my LeO, and am going to do this before my Amiot. I’m feeling a little “bombered out” and not having completed anything since the middle of August I want get something - anything - finished. I had been thinking about scribing some panel lines but the PRANG  Jug really is as clean as a uniformly silver whistle; also the raised detail (panel lines/riveting) on the kit is rather nice.

 

I had also been thinking about having a go at improving that front end with some Milliput, but I can’t be bothered, frankly. Aftermarket wheels and decals apart, this is intended to be a quick, fun OOB build like what they were in the days when the kit was released.

Edited October 18, 2020 by TonyOD

[stevej60]

44 minutes ago, TonyOD said:

this is intended to be a quick, fun OOB build like what they were in the days when the kit was released.

Exactly my approach for these classic GB's Tony build them like we used to but with a finish more representative of the skills

we've honed over the intervening years!Good luck I've never laid eyes on this one before looking on with interest.

[mike romeo]

Hi Tony,

 

Following this with interest.

 

Rgds

 

Martin

[TonyOD]

So far it has the feel of a blitzbuild! 😁

 

[Toryu]

On 02/10/2020 at 22:07, Troy Smith said:

The actual P-47 wing has 18 inches added into the root for extra fuel tankage, and this pushes the UC further outboard 

 

Besides the larger span, didn't the P-47N have laminar flow wings? This would make for a different wing profile, too. Shouldn't be too prominent in 1/72, however.

I'm eager to see how you manage this build!

[TonyOD]

19 minutes ago, Toryu said:

 

Besides the larger span, didn't the P-47N have laminar flow wings? This would make for a different wing profile, too. Shouldn't be too prominent in 1/72, however.

I'm eager to see how you manage this build!

Accuracy is a very, very distant second to enjoyment on this one. 😉

[thorfinn]

While it is undoubtedly a pig of a kit -- for all of the above-stated reasons -- it is quite fun, as long as you're not expecting state-of-the-art (even then) quality.

Here's one I built a few years ago, just to 'burn' some extra decals:

 

 

Enjoy your build!

[TonyOD]

2 hours ago, thorfinn said:

While it is undoubtedly a pig of a kit -- for all of the above-stated reasons -- it is quite fun, as long as you're not expecting state-of-the-art (even then) quality.

 

But again, whether it's a pig of a kit not depends on your expectations, surely? It's well documented that this isn't the most accurate representation of the type, but on the other hand it seems to be a very straightforward build. What test fitting I've done suggests the fit is pretty much perfect (maybe your experience having completed the kit trumps mine? Nice looking model, btw!) To be honest I remember 1974 (just!) and it was the dark ages compared to what we have today in terms of product development capability in any field, if anything it's remarkable that the kit is a good as it is! As for the accuracy issues, it's really only now with the benefit of so much information at our fingertips that it becomes a pig, if accuracy is your thing. I find myself slightly bemused by some of the more indignant online reviews of this kit when it is, at the end of the day, a vintage toy. Like I said if I end up with something that looks broadly like a Thunderbolt and I enjoy the build, that's a result.

[rob Lyttle]

1 hour ago, TonyOD said:

it is, at the end of the day, a vintage toy. Like I said if I end up with something that looks broadly like a Thunderbolt and I enjoy the build, that's a result.

Darn right! 

I love it when a Cinderella kit gets some care and attention. 

She SHALL go to the Ball! 🧚🧚‍♂️🧚‍♀️🧙‍♀️

 

 

Laminar flow wing profile indeed..... 😅

[thorfinn]

I wrote the 'pig of a kit' line with a wink and a grin -- and a genuine fondness -- that I suppose didn't come through on the written page. Sorry if it seems I was trying to do anything else.

 

This is the era of kit I grew up with...and still happily build today on a regular basis. I am the opposite of a rivet-counter...tend not to fully-replace panel-lines unless the gaps are obvious...and seldom bother to detail landing-gear wells because I mostly can't be bothered. Like you, I build to enjoy.

 

Having grown up in that era when 'accuracy' often was limited to a manufacturer getting the number of wings right, I take these kits for what they are. Issues of proper shape and precise detail are for today's manufacturers to sort out.

 

Having said all that...the fact that the airfoil section of the wings is essentially upside-down is something I have never encountered on another kit in a half-century of modeling. I am neither outraged nor offended by such a gaffe...only amused. Because...if it had been an actual characteristic of the prototype aircraft...it's undoubtedly something that no kit manufacturer would ever have gotten right!

 

(I suppose I should add that the 'dark days of modeling' excuse doesn't exactly hold true...since plenty of manufacturers in that same era managed to get the lines of even rarer a/c types down pretty well. It's not as though the Jug was a little-known or obscure aircraft type; Heller might be seen to have even less of an excuse...since the armée de l'air flew the type for some years!)

 

In any case, I bought and built the kit, enjoyed that process...and was happy enough with the outcome to take pictures for my own pleasure. I genuinely hope you enjoy your build just as much...and I will happily follow it with interest.

 

Cheers.

[Jinxman]

2 minutes ago, thorfinn said:

Having said all that...the fact that the airfoil section of the wings is essentially upside-down is something I have never encountered on another kit in a half-century of modeling.

I think the Airfix Hs123 upper wing suffers in this respect - a shame as otherwise it's a lovely kit of its time. 

[TonyOD]

1 hour ago, thorfinn said:

the fact that the airfoil section of the wings is essentially upside-down is something I have never encountered on another kit in a half-century of modeling

Yeah, that one is a bit difficult to defend I suppose... 😂

 

Always good to have input from other modellers. I think I'm just ready for a quick'n'dirty little build. Everything I've been doing in 1/72 since the springtime has seemed so involved somehow. I looked in the box to see if it came with one of Heller's high-falutin' fiches de contrôle guaranteeing l'exactitude de la reproduction, but no such claim is made for this kit... 😉

[TonyOD]

SWMBO's birthday today so the day has been given over largely to her whims and wishes, but I've found an hour to try to make a bit of headway. Have you ever had one of those sessions where you wish you hadn't bothered? Everything I touched went wrong. Snapped two of the little cannon off, so have had to order some brass replacements. And to cap it all I've managed to cut my knuckle quite deeply with a very sharp knife. Just about stopped the bleeding after 45  minutes.

 

Tomorrow's another day...