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what are some good book regarding the Fw 190 D?


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Heinz Nowarra’s “FW190: a famous German Fighter” published by Harleyford in the 60s is still worth tracking down, and can be had reasonably cheaply from Abebooks...

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-focke-wulf-190-a-famous-german-fighter/author/nowarra-heinz-j/

 

best,

M.

 

 

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I was thinking of ordering this one for the interesting drawing (such as the D10 that I intent to do using eduard dora 9 ,not sure how I'll do the MG 151) ,though from the preview ,some profile are wrong and they fall for the dark green RLM 83 (wich is now know to be dark blue from OG document)

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4 hours ago, aurelien wolff said:

I was thinking of ordering this one for the interesting drawing (such as the D10 that I intent to do using eduard dora 9 ,not sure how I'll do the MG 151) ,though from the preview ,some profile are wrong and they fall for the dark green RLM 83 (wich is now know to be dark blue from OG document)

Honestly, I wouldn't exactly say "fall for" is the proper term. Without wishing to start an argument, I would like to point out that there has yet to be discovered more than that single document referring to a short-term test of a dark blue 83, to be conducted in a limited operational area.  And prior to that, even Ullmann himself described 83 as green and linked it to the pre-war 6x-series colors.

Finally, it must be remembered that at least two generations of modelers have come to accept "RLM 83" as shorthand for "late war dark olive green" since it was first described as such in the late 70s or early 80s. So have other authors, paint, decal and kit manufacturers, etc. That's a lot of inertia to overcome.

Edited by Rolls-Royce
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I'm aware of Jerry Crandall's invention of "84" to describe the pale greenish colour that he saw on remains, and I referred to above as "Luftwaffe Sky".  Whether this was just another variation of 76 remains as another theory, if perhaps a reasonable-enough one.  What Uhlmann has since found is actual German documentation for the dark blue, at least in terms of trials.  Now it seems that some above think this was labelled as 83 - that is the point on which we differ.

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It's amazing how things get twisted around about these colors. First, I said I have a slide with a sliver of dark green color from a WWII Italian pant company that is marked 83. There is no documentation that the late war light green that was a common under surface color has anything to do with RLM 76 Light Blue. That is someone's theory. There is evidence those colors were used together. Again the big problem is we only a fraction of documents dealing with late war colors. The best source is recovered aircraft that has remaining color.

     Cheers, Jerry

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22 minutes ago, Jerry Crandall said:

It's amazing how things get twisted around about these colors. First, I said I have a slide with a sliver of dark green color from a WWII Italian pant company that is marked 83. There is no documentation that the late war light green that was a common under surface color has anything to do with RLM 76 Light Blue. That is someone's theory. There is evidence those colors were used together. Again the big problem is we only a fraction of documents dealing with late war colors. The best source is recovered aircraft that has remaining color.

     Cheers, Jerry

My apologies, Jerry. I was trying to go from memory, having seen your post several days ago, when I mentioned the 83-marked sample. No harm intended. I have edited my previous post to remove the reference.

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5 hours ago, aurelien wolff said:

such as the D10 that I intent to do using eduard dora 9 ,not sure how I'll do the MG 151

If you want a D-10, Hobby Boss do one,  and given I have not seem howls of anguish about the Hobby Boss Fw-190D kits,  maybe the easier option.  

They are also reasonably cheap, at least in the UK. 

11 hours ago, aurelien wolff said:

what are some good and easy to find book on the dora?

This may depend on what you want to know. 

 

The Japo Books are about camouflage and marking mainly.  

I don't have the Crandall books to comment. 

 

HTH

 

 

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14 hours ago, Jerry Crandall said:

It's amazing how things get twisted around about these colors. First, I said I have a slide with a sliver of dark green color from a WWII Italian pant company that is marked 83. There is no documentation that the late war light green that was a common under surface color has anything to do with RLM 76 Light Blue. That is someone's theory. There is evidence those colors were used together. Again the big problem is we only a fraction of documents dealing with late war colors. The best source is recovered aircraft that has remaining color.

     Cheers, Jerry

That I agree ,their isn't much document regarding the RLM 83 (by the way I liked volume 2 and I use it a lot for my dora model, it helped on my D12/R14) and I don't remember you inenting RLM 84 since I remember reading that was used on older sources than the dora book

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Lots of previous discussion on here regarding RLM83, 84, etc.  There is no doubt that the colours in question - or variants of them - existed.  What does not seem to exist is any consensus or clarity on their original labelling.  In that sense, their 'official' designations are largely irrelevant, I would say...

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16 hours ago, Jerry Crandall said:

It's amazing how things get twisted around about these colors. First, I said I have a slide with a sliver of dark green color from a WWII Italian pant company that is marked 83. There is no documentation that the late war light green that was a common under surface color has anything to do with RLM 76 Light Blue. That is someone's theory. There is evidence those colors were used together. Again the big problem is we only a fraction of documents dealing with late war colors. The best source is recovered aircraft that has remaining color.

     Cheers, Jerry

This sounds interesting, was the paint produced by an Italian company or was it just a sample give to them ? Do you know which company this was ?

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Let's summarize:

 

RLM 84 is a postwar invention. There are artefacts on this planet that seem to belong to old German planes and their color(s) do(es) not precisely match the known "trusted" samples for the theoretically prescribed RLM 76 for these bits of planes - but there could be "alternative explanations" such as (and there could be more and/or better explanations!) "lack of quality control in paint manufacture in Germany in 1945", "aging of paint" and/or a "tolerated surplus of zinc chromate in the paint and tolerated/intended deviation from the norm of RLM 76".

 

RLM 83 was - over a long time - considered to be some kind of greenish camouflage paint (even by Michael Ullmann in his fantastic book "Oberflächenschutzverfahren und Anstrichstoffe der deutschen Luftfahrtindustrie und Luftwaffe 1935-1945") and one (1) reproduced document surfaced supporting RLM 83 was SUGGESTED as some kind of blue camouflage paint in 1943. Other documents support the suggestion of a blue camouflage paint in general (but not directly connected to RLM 83).

 

So my conclusion is:

I will avoid any book making use of "RLM 84" (until new evidence is found).

I will take any mention of RLM 83 with a grain of salt - but will consider the use of "RM 83" a venial sin.

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