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I'm having a right old bonanza with smaller multi-engined planes at the moment, and Airfix are on a roll supplying me with their Vintage Classics reissue programme! 

IMG_20200929_204617

 

Throw in a Twin Otter from Revell and happiness ensues 😍

And all at no great expense. 

They've all been opened and rummaged through, amidst a little cloud of nostalgia that comes free with every box.

Top of the pile, for no particular reason, is this one, 

IMG_20200929_204216

First issued in 1969 and totally contemporary with the aircraft itself. I think Airfix were trying to stay ahead of the game by choosing the USAF version that was being made. 

Fitted with a pair of Garrett turboprops to please or to suit the US, it looks like it was destined to be used in a medical evacuation role, with an extra wide entrance. 

The Airfix plan fell on its face though, simultaneously with the USAF order being cancelled and Handley Page going bust. 

Production the plane was taken over by Scottish Aviation and ultimately by BAe, and the Jetstream succeeded for many years. 

But not with American Garrett engines! 

I'm not sure if ANY airframes were built in the style of the Airfix kit, but you'll never find a picture of one! 

I suppose the after market guys may come up with a viable option now that the kit is reissued....... Or maybe not. 

My challenge, in the meantime, is to have a go at scratch conversion and see if I can make a real Jetstream.

The issue is this..... 

IMG_20200929_204132

 

IMG_20200929_204146

 

And I'm in the process of something quite different! 

The actual build is progressing with a few mods that I'll detail, but hassle-free and no big drama. 

It's just those engines. I'm sort of thinking that it was an opportunity for Airfix to make good on their error of judgement, and tool up a little sprue with the right turbine fit. 

Oh, and throw in a small selection of civil schemes on the decal sheet. 

How nice would that be?? 

😎

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I found a couple of free-to-use pictures on "commons" which illustrate the kind of engine installation that applies to the HP Jetstream. This is what I'm aiming for.... 

Apollo_Airways_Handley_Page_HP-137_Jetstream_200_Silagi-1

A quick zoom in gives this.... 

2020-09-29_11-05-56

And this one.... 

HP Jetstream pic

The later BAe Jetstream developments are different again, but they're easily identified by having 4-blade props and a a big bulged addon extension underneath the fuselage. 

The RAF examples in the BM walkaround section sport the engine type I'm after. 

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Interesting project and I’ll follow along if I may.

 

A few minutes googling got me this

 

https://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000910254.html

 

Nice interview shot of the prototype (?) Garrett engined version. No cargo door though.

 

As to the RAF T.1’s, they had three blade props. I think it was only the Garrett T.3’s that had four blades.

 

Trevor

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If I were you, I'd get hold of a Pucara that no-one else wants and steal the engines from it!  Even the real thing is unloved.  You may also want to scratch-build the half-circle bulges around the gear bays on the underside of the wing.  These are quite prominent on the Jetstream.  I, too, like this kit, but I think the A-Model kit will present fewer headaches.

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Three C-10A Jetstreams (aka Jetstream 3M) were completed before the USAF walked out on the programme, obviously others were well advanced at Radlett when the axe fell and I believe that all of the latter were broken up on site when the receivers moved in.  At least one front fuselage from a Jetstream 3M is known to survive in the UK.

 

The Garrett TOE-331 engine was adopted for the C-10A and returned to the programme when the Jetsream 31 was launched, although the engine installation differed somewhat from that in the C-10A.with the air intake above the spinner rather than below as per the kit.  The Jestream 41 was a “stretch” version of the 31.

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The later BAE and Scottish Aviation versions usually had 4 bladed props, I have always though you could make the Garrett engine from what Airfix supplied and a whole heap of filler.

The intake on this early version was on the bottom, but Garrett moved it to the upper, I'm sure you could do that with the what Airfix gives, but you need to fill the lower half to get the smooth transition.

besides the above mentioned kits to get the Astazou engined version there was an older conversion by M&E Models that came out in the early '90's and turn up quite cheaply.

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/mande-models-kc003-handley-page-jetstream-t1-t2--146018

 

A photo of the Garrett

 

Engine-Port-from-side.jpg

Engine-Port-from-inner.jpg

 

There were just as many Garrett engined Airliners as Astazou engined ones

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The Airfix kit needs some pretty considerable rework to get it to Astazou standard.  The AModel kit is one of their very recent kits and looks to be far superior - though I admit that I haven't actually started gluing it together yet.

 

I was at HP at the time of the cancellation: as I recall only the first prototype Mk.3 flew and then in yellow zinc chromate.  It may have flown in USAF colours but I don't recall it that way - at the time I was at the Radlett end and the flight testing was done at Park Street..  One of the earlier prototypes was being rebuilt ('XI?) but was not completed.  Presumably it would have had the cargo door.  I recall seeing the fuselages on the line, but not any completed.  I am pretty sure that none flew.

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13 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

 

But not with American Garrett engines! 

I'm not sure if ANY airframes were built in the style of the Airfix kit, but you'll never find a picture of one! 

 

 

 

I think G-AWBR was the only one that flew. It's only significant use was in the opening episode of the TV show 'UFO' in an'almost' USAF scheme

 

From about 2.30:
 

 

97136623_156788915832826_475660019067938

Edited by Dave Fleming
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Following this with interest!  I have the reissue in the stash I'll build as a C-10 per the original kit. What's nice about the Airfix issue is it has opening doors albeit the 2 part not used on later versions and some handy seats and bulkheads. The Amodel one doesnt have an interior but builds up very nicely.

 

The early 'streams were Astazou powered and whilst a proven and reliable helicopter engine HP had all sorts of problems with them on the stream which in turn lead to delays which in turn lead to more financial problems which in turn brought the company down. Had they used Garretts from the outset the story may well have been very different as the Jetstream turned into a good seller.

 

In regard to the Amodel kit - it comes together well but the Astazou engine nacelles are two part as well as the extended prop shaft which is a right sod - if it had been released before I did mine I would definitely have got hold of an engine set from Air Graphics Models - which are superb - I have a set for my next one. If you want to convert your Airfix machine to a a zou powered aircraft these may solve the problem...

 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/search?keywords=jetstream

 

Here's mine- one of those purchased from defunct HP by Jetstream Ltd and assembled at Sywell before Scottish Aviation came on board.

 

TT

 

49060038026_6727430417_b.jpg41872913_10155760371795976_2319689429725216768_o by Ben Brown, on Flickr

 

 

 

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If you're seeking to model any variant of the Jetstream including the 3M from the Airfix kit, one of the things you would have to do is move the window from the door to the rear of the main window strip.  That can be seen from the underside photo of G-AWBR, Dave Fleming's photo above and in the still from Col Straker's arrival in UFO.

 

Graham also mentioned some other mods on my thread in the 'Kit you built as a kid' GB: shortening undercarriage doors, reshaping ventral fin, small fairing at leading edge of tailplane root.

Edited by JosephLalor
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Just to pick up on another point: The Jetstream didn't begin with Garretts because they required 2-pilot operation (something about the start-up, I believe).  The Jetstream was aimed at a corner of the US market which was very low cost and weight-sensitive (under 12,500lb IIRC) and to be profitable required one pilot, one steward(ess) and 18 passengers.  The Garrett was also heavier than the Astazou.  The company also considered the PT-6 but at that time it did not produce enough horsepower.  What upset some people abut the Astazou was its Beta control - power was controlled by the propeller pitch and this was a bit new for some pilots.  And so to be disapproved of.  Those who adapted to it (as indeed helicopter pilots had quite happily) liked it well enough.

 

The basic failure of the early Jetstream was its weight, and diversion of effort (and money) to the 3M.  Plus the deaths of some of its major supporters - one of which was in the crash of D-INAH.  This was traced to a fault in the firewall, which didn't help.  A nasty stall was fixed with a stick pusher, and later Scottish claimed to have discovered an air leak upsetting flow on the inner(?) leading edge.  In the end the market didn't develop as hoped for, and competitors had claimed the most of it.  Plus executives fancied jets more than turboprops for their personal carriages.  Arguably a sound design let down by detail faults and wishful thinking.  I'm sure we could name similar examples.

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16 hours ago, Julien said:

It looks like they put the engines on upside down!

I read through a build on ipms deutschland and the builder had the idea of fitting the engine fronts inverted to achieve this look. 

But he discovered too late that it puts the prop shaft too low and the blades are cutting the grass. Or concrete! 

Thanks for all the feedback, guys, much appreciated. Interesting to note that am parts are available. 

I'm tinkering with the kit parts to see what I can get 😎

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Just stumbled on this thread....

 

I was fortunate enough to crew on some of Apollo Airways' Jetstreams in the early 1980s, and having fond memories of them, these photos were really a blessing to see! There don't seem to be that many quality photos of Jetstream airliners out there in Google-land.

What Graham says about the max weight being a detractor is correct.

Apollo ran service throughout California for several years but maintenance costs and the gross weight limitation under FAR135 rules kept them from being very profitable. The Astazou engines were problematic in that they had low times-between-overhaul, and seemed to be the limiting factor in the airplane's reliability. From a passenger's point of view the airplanes had balky air conditioning/pressurization, an annoying wing spar in the aisle that caused quite a few to stumble, and the cabin was VERY noisy. I have to attribute some of my hearing loss to the 3,000 hours I logged in it, in spite of foam earplugs covered by David Clarke headsets. But the Jetstream was fun to fly and had great performance.

 

I built an Airfix kit back in the 80s and made my Astazou forward engine nacelles and gearbox areas from plastic tube, which was thick enough that I was able to chuck it in an electric drill and shape the intake lip against a hobby knife edge. The nacelles were faired into the Airfix kit without too much fuss, while the little bumps and strakes on the nacelles were made from scrap plastic. 

I'd like to build another kit as N5VH pictured above in Rob's post. This green and gold trimmed Jetstream was used in the opening scenes of "Moonraker" (where 007 is thrown out of the airplane) and later repainted in the standard blue and red scheme with different registration. I'll probably use the Airfix kit again since I like the fuselage shapes slightly better than the Amodel, and am in the process of designing an Apollo Airways decal for Greg Drawbaugh (drawdecal.com) for his decal e-store.

 

Thanks to all who posted photos and info I hadn't seen before. I haven't yet figured out how to post my Flickr photos but will try to do so in the future.

 

 

Edited by Jeff Thomsen
better wording
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One of my last jobs as an apprentice flight-test observer was to sit winding a scanimeter round as part of a test for an improved air conditioning system.  Given the timing, I doubt that the new system was ever adopted.  I also recall plotting the WAT curves (weight-altitude-temperature) for the Mk.2/Series 200 which with the Astazou 16 would have significantly raised the limits.

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1 hour ago, Jeff Thomsen said:

From a passenger's point of view the airplanes had balky air conditioning/pressurization, an annoying wing spar in the aisle that caused quite a few to stumble, and the cabin was VERY noisy. I have to attribute some of my hearing loss to the 3,000 hours I logged in it, in spite of foam earplugs covered by David Clarke headsets. 

 

 

Thanks to all who posted photos and info I hadn't seen before. I haven't yet figured out how to post my Flickr photos but will try to do so in the future.

 

 

Having spent too much time near the shrill of Astazou powered Jetstreams at Culdrose, I'm surprised Apollo had any willing passengers!  Love to see your photos though.

 

Great little build Rob, one of those I always wanted to do when I was younger, could the engines be turned upside down to create a T.3?  Would need four bladed props obviously.

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59 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

One of my last jobs as an apprentice flight-test observer was to sit winding a scanimeter round as part of a test for an improved air conditioning system.  Given the timing, I doubt that the new system was ever adopted.  I also recall plotting the WAT curves (weight-altitude-temperature) for the Mk.2/Series 200 which with the Astazou 16 would have significantly raised the limits.

Hi Graham. I'm not sure some of the environmental control issues we had were Handley Page's fault. The airplanes were getting long in the tooth at that time and our maintenance department may not have had the budget they needed.

 

I believe Apollo's planes were built by Scottish Aviation (under license?). Someone here may know more.

 

I also seem to remember we had Jetstreams with their Astazou 14s being converted to 16s. But my memory is a bit fuzzy on that.

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It gets a bit murky with early Jetstreams! Some were HP built, some airframes were part completed by HP then further work was done on them by Jetstream Ltd/Terravia or completed by them then again further airframes were part completed by JA/T and roaded to SA for completion then there were new builds before BAe took over. So it basically depends on an airframe by airframe basis who built it and finished it which could be several companies! 
 

bearing in mind we’re talking quite a short ish period from 1970ish when HP went under to 74/75 then on to Bae with the first J31 sprouting in the 80s


Btw for those who Facebook herewith a link to our Sywell Aviation Museum page showing some under construction at Sywell 

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=517044848772743&id=205252919603570

 

 

TT

Edited by TEXANTOMCAT
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