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Italian interior colours... in colour


Giorgio N

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With the MTO III Group Build in full swing, I happened to reconsider the matter of the colours used in the cockpit of Italian WW2 aircraft. As some may know, for a few years now many books and kit instructions have suggested the use of a light green, the famous "Verde Anticorrosione" for every Italian aircraft. Personally I've always commented negatively on this, not because such a colour was never used but because more and more of the information I kept finding in Italian language sources of different kind pointed at the use of different colours, in particular to a much more widespread use of grey paints. This in particular would apply to anything built after the introduction of the "Tavola 10", an Air Force document stating a number of paints to be used for various areas of all military aircraft. The Tavola 10 spefically requested Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1 (light blue grey 1) for the interiors, although it is known that not all companies immediately followed these instructions and pre-existing supplies of paint could be used.

I'm not going to repeat the comments I made in other threads in this same forum here, what I'd like to do is to offer a couple of refefences of the era that may help us in understanding what the interior colours were like. I'll start with this picture, taken during the US forces advance and published by Life Magazine:

 

acddb70b-c28f-46d2-a6b3-8116dfa699c0.jpg

 

I believe the picture to be an original colour print and not a colorized picture, reason why I find this very interesting. The aircraft shown is an MC.202 built by Breda that at some point received a replacement wing from a Macchi built aircraft (the different manufacturer can be identified by the different camo scheme).

The interior of the rear fuselage looks grey to me, and so is the interior of the flap. The two greys look very similar, likely the same paint... that should be Grigio Azzurro Chiaro 1. It is known that flaps interiors and wheel wells were generally treated as part of the lower undersurfaces, so makes sense that the same GAC-1 used for the latter would be used on the former.

Very little is visible of the cockpit unfortunately, but what is seems to be again in a light grey. What is not in light grey is the engine bearer frame, that looks in aluminum. This is something that has been found on other late war Italian aircraft, so may have been quite common in around 1943.

Really there seems to be no trace of any green on this aircraft, with the obvious exception of the Verde Oliva Scuro used for the camouflage.

 

The second reference is this video, again shot by US personnel and again showing a Breda built MC.202

 

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675061167_captured-airfield_World-War-II_86th-Fighter-Bomber-Group_American-soldiers

 

In the video the fuselage gun compartment is very visible, however here it is more difficult to understand the colour of the interior: is it a grey ? Is it a grey-green or even a green ? The age of the film sure does not help reaching a clear conclusion.

The video also shows some wreckage of another aircraft that seems to indicate grey interior surfaces but I'd be wary of reaching conclusions from something so badly damaged.

 

Of course both the picture and the video show other interesting features, like the shape and feathering of the famous "smoke rings" or how detailed the fuselage fascist insignia was.

 

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

--- Really there seems to be no trace of any green on this aircraft, with the obvious exception of the Verde Oliva Scuro used for the camouflage. ---

 

To me it seems the sheet metal of the fuselage (the inside of the white fuselage band) is a greenish gray. More green than the flaps' inside and more green then the grey frame parts inside the fuselage.

 

I loaded the image in to Irfanview and played with the color balance, especially reducing the green channel a bit. Reducing the green does help the yellow fuel triangle and the red shadow of the "80". It does help the sky a bit too, but not really the white fuselage band.

 

When "probing" (for RGB values) the grey of the flaps, the wing root where the camouflage "yellow" is worn off, the inside of the "ripped open" white fuselage band, the inside of the white fuselage band on the far right and the frame inside the fuselage, one might come to the conclusion a "grey" paint was used in many areas and a "grey-green" paint was used on the metal sheets of the fuselage.

 

But the "greenish grey I think I might see" is far away from a quickly googled "Verde Anticorrosione".

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Thanks for your contribution Jochen ! It is entirely possible that the fuselage interior was in a different grey or grey/green. It is known that there were a number of primers approved for use on aluminum surfaces and it is possible that the fuselage was just coated with primer while other areas had received a further coat over the primer.

It should be said that a number of original assembly manuals of prewar or early-war mention the use of a further coat over the primer. In some cases the colour is mentioned, in others only the type of paint is stated without any indication of colour. The use of a second coat over the primer even inside fuselage and wing panels was therefore common, however this may have changed during the war. I will have to check if any similar indication is present in manuals of later types. Unfortunately the manuals rarely have indication of colours but at least knowing the painting process may be of help

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Another useful item from the Critical Past video is the closeup of the fuselage fasces insignia.  Hopefully most modelers are aware the background disc is a blue gray, not the bright baby blue most decal makers give us.  

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:53 AM, Giorgio N said:

Thanks for your contribution Jochen ! It is entirely possible that the fuselage interior was in a different grey or grey/green. It is known that there were a number of primers approved for use on aluminum surfaces and it is possible that the fuselage was just coated with primer while other areas had received a further coat over the primer.

It should be said that a number of original assembly manuals of prewar or early-war mention the use of a further coat over the primer. In some cases the colour is mentioned, in others only the type of paint is stated without any indication of colour. The use of a second coat over the primer even inside fuselage and wing panels was therefore common, however this may have changed during the war. I will have to check if any similar indication is present in manuals of later types. Unfortunately the manuals rarely have indication of colours but at least knowing the painting process may be of help

It looks to me like the inside of the sheet metal for the fuselage is a green or gray-green and the rib looks to be gray.  On U.S. aircraft of the time period it was not unusual for the ribs to be painted chromate yellow or interior green with the sheet metal being unpainted.  Maybe the Italian manufacturers did something similar?

Later,

Dave

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On 9/29/2020 at 5:17 PM, jimmaas said:

Another useful item from the Critical Past video is the closeup of the fuselage fasces insignia.  Hopefully most modelers are aware the background disc is a blue gray, not the bright baby blue most decal makers give us.  

 

The fuselage fasces are often misrepresented by kit manufacturers and even aftermarket decal companies. One detail that is sometime missing is the animal head just above the blade. This could be a bear's or sometimes a boar's head.

One aspect of the fuselage fasces to keep in mind is that while there was more than one style, the number of variations was limited as this was not a painted marking: it was a decal and for this reason once a design was produced it was made in hundreds or more of identical pieces. The same happened for the House of Savoy crest on the tail, made as a decal and applied at the factory. What could change was its position on the white cross and this and the shape and size of the cross generally depended on the manufacturer.

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