251-Mig 19PM Farmer -A Mig with missiles***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

I first saw this in the window of what was then James & Lendon (now just Lendons) in Cardiff in 1979, together with the Lansen. I built the Lansen earlier this year so now I will build the MIg. Released in 1973 ref 251, this is a slightly newer boxing with the same ref.

I am not very good with NMF so this should be interesting.

 

Pete

[Rabbit Leader]

Now that’s different! I suppose you could always do a Pakistani F-6 (Not sure what the differences are) and paint it in some upper surface green colour. Will follow on as I’ve thought about acquiring one of these in he past. 
Cheers and best of luck.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Thanks Dave,

 

As it happens I have a copy of Scale Aircrfat Modelling that did a main artical on the PAF complete with decs - stickers to you. Unfortunately I seem to remember they were all NMF as well- must look it out and check. However I doubt they used the RS-2-U aka Nato code name AA 1 Alkali missiles and APU-4 rails provided in the kit - probably used AIM-9 Sidewinders instead!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Wez]

Pakistan used the Shengyang F-6 which is based upon the MiG-19S, it's a very different beast.

 

The F-6/MiG-19S has a short nose with cannon armament, later aircraft used Sidewinders.  The MiG-19PM in the kit has a longer nose equipped with radar plus the RS2-U missiles,

 

There are decals available for other schemes, I'm not sure if the Polish ones were overall light grey, in which case ModelMaker do some decals for these.  A quick question in the Cold War section of the site should help, we have plenty of helpful Polish modellers on the site.

 

Nice to see this one though Pete.

[TonyOD]

I really like this one, but they don't seem to be very easy to come by.

Edited September 29, 2020 by TonyOD

[RidgeRunner]

4 hours ago, Wez said:

There are decals available for other schemes, I'm not sure if the Polish ones were overall light grey, in which case ModelMaker do some decals for these.  A quick question in the Cold War section of the site should help, we have plenty of helpful Polish modellers on the site.

Agreed, Wez. I fear that NMF or oversall grey may be the only option for this beastie

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

How about DDR? 

 

https://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001388371.html

 

 

[JOCKNEY]

Not seen this kit before Pete, as for NMF, think of it as a chance to try something new, use the inside of the wings to test stuff out and no one will be any the wiser !

Good luck with the build.

Cheers Pat

[Aardvark]

Pete, about camouflage on Soviet AF MiG-19PM I don't know anything. Camouflage MiG-19S in Soviet AF was, rare but was. As example Red "27" which shot down RB-66 over DDR painting in darkness grey top and light blue upside. But about Soviet camouflage  MiG-19PM nothing is known.

Therefore, DDR, Bulgaria, China or Arabic country if need camouflage, but be careful with China because they did upgrade their MiG-19, as example on some their modification MiG-19 central nose cone was  acute, not parabolic.

 

About missile, MiG-19PM carry not only RS-2U family missile, was also late MiG-19PM which could carry R-3S (a copy of Sidewinder) and blocks of unguided 57mm rocket like the MiG-19S.

 

Also You will be maked my local red "63" MiG-19PM - monument at the entrance to the Donetsk airport.

 

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/avia/after_1950/mig-19pm/

 

 Fortunately, he was not injured in the fighting.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S. It is also interesting to see the photos of the spruce , because I knew about this model but did not see the detailed photos.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Aardvark

[PeterB]

Thanks Serge,

 

I will post sprue shots in a few days.

 

Pete

Edited October 4, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

As Serge (not Sergei - sorry!) @Aardvark wanted a sprue shot, here it is.

NIce clean mouldings with no flash, raised panel lines and rivets but quite restrained, but I might just sand them lightly. There are no less than 18 little intakes to fit and the placement instructions are a little vague - shades of the KP Mig 17 and Mig 19 kits I built years ago. Colour call out mostly "Alu" but interior, inside wheel doors and wells in SM 63 Vert Arme which IPMS Stockhold say is close to Humbrol Hu 102 Army Green! legs in Admiralty Grey, and as mentiomned previously missiles in Bronze. Any comments or suggestions about the colours welcome. The decs look not too bad but may benefit from a spell taped on the window to remove any yellowing.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited October 4, 2020 by PeterB

[TonyOD]

23 minutes ago, PeterB said:

but may benefit from a spell taped on the window to remove any yellowing.

Interesting! Does this work?

[helios16v]

I'll be watching how you get along with this one.  I hope to start on the 21 tonight.

[PeterB]

1 hour ago, TonyOD said:

Interesting! Does this work?

Hi Tony,

 

Depends on the weather and the decs but yes, a few days or in some cases weeks taped on the inside of a window in a clear plastic bag does bleach certain decals quite nicely, but of course it can also make the colours fade and may cause the decs to deteriorate so it is a bit hit and miss. I guess a UV light eg home sunlamp might do it quicker but I don't have one. I remember my Dad getting one back in the 1960's that looked like a sat dish and had carbon arc rods for both "UV" and "IR" supposedly , and us sitting around wearing goggles, but whether or not it did any good I can't say. It got thrown after a few months as we could not get replacement rods/elements I think!

 

Pete

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

As Serge (not Sergei - sorry!)

Pete, do not be sorry, because in reality my name is Sergei, but in the spoken language Serzh, Seryi, Seryoga, Seryozha is also used in the old language, Sergiy will be in general ... I am writing Serge so that the English-speaking forum users would not break their language once again.😉😁

If there is an almost identical Western version of your name, why not write it on the Western forum?

Therefore, everything is correct, You can write any of the above variations of my name.

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

is.

NIce clean mouldings with no flash, raised panel lines and rivets but quite restrained, but I might just sand them lightly.

In principle, the MiG-19 from this will be.  But even this photo shows some inconsistencies.  But I would recommend not to fix anything in this model, but to assemble it as it is from the box. Most interesting moment tail has an elevator.  In reality, with such a keel there were only the very first and very early rare models of a pure MiG-19 without letters.

It's a very rare model, not exported.  Only one surviving model of this type is known, which was in the 90s on Khodynka, now the fate of this aircraft is not known my.

Late model (including MiG-19PM) have fully movable tail.

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

There are no less than 18 little intakes to fit and the placement instructions are a little vague - shades of the KP Mig 17 and Mig 19 kits I built years ago. Colour call out mostly "Alu" but interior, inside wheel doors and wells in SM 63 Vert Arme which IPMS Stockhold say is close to Humbrol Hu 102 Army Green! legs in Admiralty Grey, and as mentiomned previously missiles in Bronze.

All correct until Bronze missiles.

 

B.R.

Serge/Sergei/Serzh/Seryi/Seryoga/Seryozha

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Aardvark

[PeterB]

Thanks Serge,

 

I am currently reading up on the Mig 19 and I note that, like its contemporary the F-100 it had stability problems and so was soon fitted with a slab tail. As very little will be visible inside I have no intention of buying and aftermarket bits so it will indeed be OOB, except perhaps for the Master probe and missile pylon "rods" set - does not need replacement cannon of course! I was expecting you to say that the green was one of these slightly unusual Soviet jet ones so that's a relief.

 

Cheers

 

Pete or perhaps Ԓetр?

[Aardvark]

4 hours ago, PeterB said:

I am currently reading up on the Mig 19 and I note that, like its contemporary the F-100 it had stability problems and so was soon fitted with a slab tail.

In the MiG-19, the reason for the appearance of the stubs was the improvement in maneuverability and controllability. 

 F-100  stability problems was during takeoff and landing due to the slat:

a non-symmetric release led to this.

 

4 hours ago, PeterB said:

I was expecting you to say that the green was one of these slightly unusual Soviet jet ones so that's a relief.

I saw only three MiG-19s in the form of a monument, one ordinary MiG-19S in Khartsyzsk that I managed to photograph with a film camera, one PM in Donetsk I gave a link to my walk-round, and one in the Avdeevka area, which is now on the other side of the front line and  The photo of which is practically not available on the Internet (I really regret not having photographed it before the war!), but the problem is that the Donetsk MiG-19PM was literally flooded with silver paint by the crazy restorers, as You see:

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/avia/after_1950/mig-19pm/MiG-19PM_0013.jpg.html

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/avia/after_1950/mig-19pm/MiG-19PM_0015.jpg.html

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/avia/after_1950/mig-19pm/MiG-19PM_0061.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/avia/after_1950/mig-19pm/MiG-19PM_0063.jpg.html

 

it is practically impossible to determine what color it was originally without a ladder.

But as You see nose cone was like as golf ball.

 

4 hours ago, PeterB said:

Pete or perhaps Ԓetр?

Pete/Peter - Petr (Пётр), Petya (Петя).

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

[PeterB]

Hi Serge,

 

I remember seeing film of that crash - I thought perhaps that was the one that killed the well known pilot George Welch of Pearl Harbor fame as he was a test pilot for North American, but it seems his was a different accident when it came apart in a dive.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

So, as we are already having a dialogue on this build and I have posted the sprues, I might as well do it out of sequence - after my Trumpeter F-105G for another GB I fancy something fairly small and easy (I hope). I will make a start in a day of two but here is my inevitable traditional intro.

 

OK, massive over-simplification coming up as I have a whole book or two on the subject!

 

Following the end of WWII what I will call the Soviet Union (USSR-Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) found itself behind the Western Powers in the development of jet aircraft but made a start with the help of captured German research documents and indeed German scientists, airframes and engines. Their early efforts mostly echoed early development in the West – straight wings and low powered engines but the introduction of the Mig 15 with swept wings and a copy of the Rolls Royce Nene engine, (several of which were gifted to them together with some Derwents by the post war British Labour Government thus allowing them to "jump" several years of development) brought them pretty much up to date - I doubt the US was impressed by this show of socialist solidarity. At that time Soviet aircraft development was shrouded in secrecy and usually the first anyone new about a new design was when Western observers saw it fly overhead at one of the big celebrations such as those held at Tushino or Domodedovo, usually followed by the publication in aviation journals of a grainy B&W photo of the underside. Things were not helped by the vagueness of the information the Soviets gave out which often suggested that all the planes shown were already in series production when many were actually experimental prototypes, such as the swept wing variant of the Mig 21 Nato called “Faceplate”, or the big twin engined Mig given the name “Flipper” and sometimes called the Mig 23!

 

The Mig 15 came as a shock to the West over Korea, and the larger follow up Mig 17 proved a thorn in the American's side over North Vietnam, but by the time the latter was entering production the OKB Mig (Mig design bureau) was already working on a supersonic replacement. Soviet design bureaux used a naming system which can be a bit confusing so I am sticking to the version in the Aerofax book on the Mig 19 by Yefim Gordon. He says that in 1950 Stalin told the aircraft designers he wanted a fighter with longer range than the Mig 17, and also one which was a supersonic interceptor with a high rate of climb. Mikoyan decided to look at 2 options, one powered by two of the smaller version of the Mikulin AM-3, known as the AM-5 and a plane powered by one of the powerful new Lyul'ka AL-5 engines . These were to be tested in modified Mig 17 which were known by the designation I-340 aka Izdeliye (article) SM-1, and I-350 respectively where I =Istrebitel (fighter). The aim was to test the design and engines before building the definitive I-360, which was to be named Mig 19 when accepted for service.

 

Both engines were new developments and it was found that the Lyku'la one was causing too many problems, whilst the Mikulin engine was a bit better but lacking in power. In the end what was to become the Mig 19 had two improved AM-9 engines, developed via the AM-5F - for “Forseerovanny” or improved (sometimes translated as "boosted") – unlike most Western designs the letters used to denote a variation on Soviet planes and engines actually are descriptive, not just in alphabetical or numerical sequence eg -A or -1, as you will see later.

 

So, having set the scene, the next thrilling instalment will actually be about the Mig 19!

 

Pete

Edited October 5, 2020 by PeterB

[John]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 3:10 PM, PeterB said:

Hi Tony,

 

Depends on the weather and the decs but yes, a few days or in some cases weeks taped on the inside of a window in a clear plastic bag does bleach certain decals quite nicely, but of course it can also make the colours fade and may cause the decs to deteriorate so it is a bit hit and miss. I guess a UV light eg home sunlamp might do it quicker but I don't have one. I remember my Dad getting one back in the 1960's that looked like a sat dish and had carbon arc rods for both "UV" and "IR" supposedly , and us sitting around wearing goggles, but whether or not it did any good I can't say. It got thrown after a few months as we could not get replacement rods/elements I think!

 

Pete

There's a bit of an art to knowing how long to leave your decals on the window - check regularly 😃

 

There are a couple of MacMillan Cancer Support posters on bus stops outside my work and over the Summer the familiar MacMillan green was de-yellowed to a bright, and somewhat disconcerting, cyan as the sun did its work.

 

John

[TonyOD]

1 hour ago, John said:

There are a couple of MacMillan Cancer Support posters on bus stops outside my work and over the Summer the familiar MacMillan green was de-yellowed to a bright, and somewhat disconcerting, cyan as the sun did its work.

 

I built a Fujimi FAA Phantom once, looked lovely, left it in my conservatory over the summer and it bleached out the decals completely. 

[Aardvark]

17 hours ago, PeterB said:

Following the end of WWII what I will call the Soviet Union (USSR-Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) found itself behind the Western Powers in the development of jet aircraft but made a start with the help of captured German research documents and indeed German scientists, airframes and engines.

In reality Lulka work over jet engine starts pre-war in Leningrad. But at the beginning of the war, when Leningrad was surrounded and the city was under the threat of capture, 80% of the finished engine was buried in the ground on the territory of the plant with drawings. In the middle of the war, when information appeared on the intelligence line about work on jet aircraft in Germany, Great Britain and the United States, work intensified in the USSR. Gudkov is working on a modification of the LaGG-3 for a jet engine known as the Gu-VRD, begins work on the LK and Sukhoi, the LK will later become the Su-9. Lulka returns to Leningrad, digs out the engine and continues to work on it. Late he will make his own engine, which will be known as TR-1, will be installed on Alekseev I-211 and Sukhoi Su-11 ... but the engine will be unclaimed since Nine was already looming on the horizon.

There was work on the aerodynamics of swept wings, which I mentioned here on the forum. But in general, these were scattered works, and after the war, the leadership of the USSR underestimated the importance of the aviation industry and the Air Force on the creation of jet aircraft. After that, many lost their positions (Yakovlev, Shakhurin, Novikov) and some lost their lives (Khudyakov*)...

some writing in Russian Wikipedia in article "Aviation litigation"

 https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Авиационное_дело

However, one should not assume that prison sentences were received only because of the lag behind the West, there were complex reasons.  See below footnote about Khudyakov.

 

18 hours ago, PeterB said:

Rolls Royce Nene engine, (several of which were gifted to them together with some Derwents by the post war British Labour Government thus allowing them to "jump" several years of development) brought them pretty much up to date - I doubt the US was impressed by this show of socialist solidarity.

There were many stories about why they did it .... the most curious story is that Mikoyan won a contract for the supply of engines from the director of Rolls-Royce to billiards ... but in reality, Britain just needed money. True, it should be noted that Vampires and Meteors in the USSR were not sold, despite the fact that ours wanted to buy them ...but I think that the factor of time played more in this, while the British ministries and departments agreed on the sale, the realization came that the former ally of the USSR had become an enemy.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

____________

* - in reality Marshal of the Air Force of the Red Army

Sergey Aleksandrovich Khudyakov, real name Armenak Artyomovich Khanferyants, in 1945,  organized a landing in Manchukuo, arrested Emperor Pu Yi and seized the gold reserves of Manchuria.  However, during the transportation of this stock and other trophies, one of the two aircraft on the way to Moscow disappeared along with the gold.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Худяков,_Сергей_Александрович

Thus, it is not necessary to say that Khudyakov suffered nothing, perhaps he would have gotten off with just imprisonment, but the stolen gold from the plane simply left him no chance ... although the story is dark enough, gold was never found, of course as an option  Marshal could have simply been framed, but we are unlikely to find out about this.

Therefore, talk about unfounded Stalinist repressions is all talking to the public, most of those who were repressed really had real reasons for this, such as espionage, sabotage, embezzlement of money or theft of state values, as well as intrigue and inept leadership. Khudyakov as one example.

As a curiosity, we can mention a group of pests that in the 30s, in the Crimea, invested their own excrement in delicious canned fish sold for export to the West. During the investigation, they explained that they did this in order to undermine the prestige of the USSR and thus terminate foreign economic contracts for the supply of delicious canned fish, thus depriving the USSR of foreign exchange earnings. This group of "excrementator's" 😁 was sentenced to seven years in prisons and camps, but later in gorbachov periode they were rehabilitated as innocent convicts, yepp..

 

[PeterB]

Hi Serge,

 

Just had a look at the walkround you published of the PM at Donetsk - very useful. However I still cannot see exactly what I need to change on the horizontal tail, which Heller have modelled about the same as the one on the ancient KP kit of the Mig 19S. Just realised this will not be a straight OOB easy build as Heller were being lazy and there is no intake trunking nor are there any jetpipes so it is see through!!! Fixable but a pain.

 

Pete

Edited October 5, 2020 by PeterB

[Aardvark]

Hi Pete,

20 hours ago, PeterB said:

Just had a look at the walkround you published of the PM at Donetsk - very useful.

I did my best! 😉😁

20 hours ago, PeterB said:

However I still cannot see exactly what I need to change on the horizontal tail, which Heller have modelled about the same as the one on the ancient KP kit of the Mig 19S.

O.K.

Early MiG-19

Late MiG-19SV

Tail early MiG-19:
(Not movable, with conventional elevator (or rudder))

Tail late MiG-19SV:
(full movable without Not swivel, with conventional elevator (or rudder)

And now look at  Heller tail panel line:

Feel a different? 😉
B.w. look at  too thick anti flutter weights at the ends  tail of Heller in comparison with the original!

Also pay attention to the trailing edge of the wing!  For the MiG-19 of all modifications, it is straight; for Heller, there is a kink on the back.
 

B.R.

Serge

[PeterB]

Thanks Serge,

 

See what you mean - KP got that right, I will have to take a file to the Heller tail and wing it seems! Any idea what colour the ejector seat frame and cushions should be?

 

Pete