251-Mig 19PM Farmer -A Mig with missiles***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

With my builds for the Vietnam GB nearing completion I have returned to my Heller kits. I know I have mentioned this before both here and on another build thread, but Heller's undue fondness for "butt joints" is getting to be a pain.

Not too bad for the various intakes, but the drop tanks, radio mast and the "T" shaped antenna under the wing are not good, and the missile rails are a real PITA with only the back 1cm actually glued! Normally I would leave all those off until the last minute, ditto the u/c, but as I am going to spray it "aluminium" touching up could be a problem, so everything is on bar the radio mast and tanks and I am going to have to be very careful how I handle it from now on!

 

A quick touch up with primer and a polish and it is crunch time - NMF coming up shortly I hope. Depends somewhat on the weather as due to the smell I am going to have to spray the enamel in my shed with the door open, so I ideally need a dry windless day and the forecast is not too good but there is plenty of time left. In the meantime I am pressing on with my Spitfire XVI as you can see in the background..

 

That just leaves the Mirage IV to start, but of course the Interceptor GB starts this weekend and I hope to do a few entries in that.

 

Will I ever learn😁!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited November 12, 2020 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

Your prolific modelling has certainly not slowed down since the Frog GB Pete, this MiG is looking great and most certainly agree regarding Heller’s butt joint fascination.

 

Now there were a couple of items in your last post that I can relate too - I now call my daughter ‘PITA’ as she’s just turned 15 and behaving just a little ‘Too cool for School’ at the moment... and I’ve just experienced the joy of mixing Testors Model Master paints with lacquer thinner, the finish is silky smooth, however it causes Mrs RL to contort her face in a similar way that Daffy Duck twist’s his beak! 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Aardvark]

5 hours ago, PeterB said:

Depends somewhat on the weather as due to the smell I am going to have to spray the enamel in my shed with the door open, so I ideally need a dry windless day and the forecast is not too good but there is plenty of time left.

Pete, You need to use lighter model chemistry, not enamels with an aggressive solvent .... although, on the other hand ... today I watched the final episodes of the series "Bomb" about the creators and the process of creating the first Soviet atomic bomb, at the end, against the background  credits, there were still living real participants in the events, and one of them said that during the experiments on the construction of the atomic bomb, one of its creators, Academician Yulii Khariton,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulii_Khariton

( b.w. educated at Cambridge )

received a critical dose of radiation incompatible with life ..... during the tests he was about 40 - 45 years old  , after that he lived to be 96 years old (Don't tell me that You are already 97 years old, 😁 I know Your age!)

...therefore no one knows all the capabilities of the human organism. 😉

 

B.R.

Serge

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

and I’ve just experienced the joy of mixing Testors Model Master paints with lacquer thinner,

Be careful I did that with Model Master International orange, worked great the first time. Second time my Airbrush turned into spidermans web slingers and sprayed a fine sticky web like residue all over my model.  

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks @Corsairfoxfouruncle, I’ve had a few goes now with a few different MM colours and so far so good. I’m using Tamiya’s Lacquer thinner with retarder (orange cap) which I bought a while back. At the time it seemed a little too harsh for lacquer based paints, however have just found out its happy to mix itself with these enamels. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Aardvark]

7 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Be careful I did that with Model Master International orange, worked great the first time. Second time my Airbrush turned into spidermans web slingers and sprayed a fine sticky web like residue all over my model.  

Model Master is a very sensitive paint to extraneous solvents.  In no case should it be dissolved with foreign solvents in a jar, only a directly in the bowl of airbrush. In the airbrush bowl, I diluted it perfectly with local acetone-based solvents (type 646, 647) and sprayed it.  It was said that the local 650 thinner perfectly dilutes the Model Master in the bottle, but I have not tried it. For such purposes, I keep a branded Model Master solvent, as and Humbrol, Revell, GS and Tamiya. In principle, in all these bottles of the screw cap system, the Model Master and GS are the most unsuccessful, most likely this is due to a rigid metal or polypropylene cap, due to the loose fit of which the solvent evaporates and the paint dries out to the screw neck of the bottle.  Exactly the same Tamiya system but with a softer polypropylene lid does not have such problems and can be stored for years, like the classic system Revell-Humbrol. However, I also came across unique ones, like the limelight from the artists of the Italian company Marmeri, which once decided to make paint for modellers ... yes, its Silver was better than the classic Humbrol 11 ... but this paint flowed out from under the closed lid of the can back in  store! At the same time, for a brush, the paint is very good due to the fine and fine grinding of the pigment, but due to the fact that the Marmeri company produced some abstract paints without reference to any standards such as BS, RAL or FS, so the sale of this paint failed and the project  turned out to be a failure.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

58 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Model Master is a very sensitive paint to extraneous solvents.  In no case should it be dissolved with foreign solvents in a jar, only a directly in the bowl of airbrush. In the airbrush bowl,

I only ever dilute paints in my Airbrush, never in the jars. That's the perfect way to waste paint. The first time I did it I got a smooth glassy finish. The second time it sprayed out fine web like strings that looked like Day glo spiderwebs. So now I only use Enamel thinner for model master. Not that that really matters anymore that model master is discontinued. 

[Aardvark]

24 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I only ever dilute paints in my Airbrush, never in the jars. That's the perfect way to waste paint. The first time I did it I got a smooth glassy finish. The second time it sprayed out fine web like strings that looked like Day glo spiderwebs. 

What I say....strange....

B.w. International Orange from MM I have and  I will need it in the foreseeable future in one GB future, because I have no other orange one.  Therefore, as we joke, "Stop scaring the ostrich! The floor in the aviary is concrete and not sand!" 😁

30 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

So now I only use Enamel thinner for model master. Not that that really matters anymore that model master is discontinued. 

Discontinued it's a problem for me, because I have a lot of stocks of MM, almost a complete first basic catalog .... but is there somewhere the composition of the MM solvent if if it consists of primitive and non-hazardous components? Because I recently mixed* Tamiya Extra Thin Cement from the components, it works and works exactly like the real

Extra Thin Cement Tamiya, maybe the same trick can be done with the MM solvent?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

___________

* - By the way Tamiya Extra Thin Cement 

is the same Tamiya cleaner for airbrush.  The only difference is that for the glue the components are mixed 50:50 and for the solvent 49:51.  But in fairness, not all Tamiya products can be made at home, for some somewhat rare components, like ordinary Tamiya glue which contains "styrole resin" , and of course  will not make paints and putties ... but solvents / extra thin  cement are the simplest and they can be made at home if  have components.

 

[PeterB]

Hi Serge,

 

Just been looking at your comments on the Yak 25 thread over on the Heller GB, and the Mig-19 link. I gather you are saying Gordon is wrong to show green upper nose panels for the illustrations of the 19PF in Soviet use, and that the correct colour should be grey or maybe a bluish grey - is that correct? Given the current weather forecast I might hold back on this until the Su-9 in the Interceptors GB is ready for painting, and spray both at the same time.

 

Pete

Edited November 13, 2020 by PeterB

[Aardvark]

2 hours ago, PeterB said:

Hi Serge,

 

Just been looking at your comments on the Yak 25 thread over on the Heller GB, and the Mig-19 link. I gather you are saying Gordon is wrong to show green upper nose panels for the illustrations of the 19PF in Soviet use, and that the correct colour should be grey or maybe a bluish grey - is that correct? Given the current weather forecast I might hold back on this until the Su-9 in the Interceptors GB is ready for painting, and spray both at the same time.

 

Pete

I'm really wrote this?  I must reread what I have written again.

I mean, there cannot be only one color for the radome of the Soviet Air Force / Air Defense - radome green, because in addition to green there were also various shades of gray. Because, as You see, those color photos of the MiG-17PF, Yak-25, I-3U, Ye-150/152A/M showing different 

grey radome colour, but in same time we know  MiG-21F-13, Su-7, Su-9 and further

colour radome was green, therefore, it is quite possible that

the same plane

radome was gray, but during repair, due to the introduction of new standards, the radome turned green. In order to accurately identify the time periods, I need to know the brand of green paint and the time it was put into operation, often when asked about the time, the number of the GOST or TU standard can tell. Without name green enamel and commissioning date, it is difficult to assert something guaranteed.  But in favor of the fact that there were most likely gray ones, these photos of prototypes of the further development of the MiG-19 speak:

Radome grey? Red "02" absolutely grey!

And look and photo MiG-17P from movie:

Radome grey? Absolutely!

Thus, we have a sequence:

- MiG-19 P predecessor  MiG-17 - grey,

MiG-19

development SM-12 - grey.

What should be the color of the MiG-19?  Probably gray ?!

From the only colour photo session (photograph Tchvetkov) I know of a MiG-19PM in service, it is impossible to determine whether it is gray or green, the angle is not the same:

which is published by all publications:

Grey? Light weathering green?

 

Yes, we have modern photo from Monino were radome green:

But it's museum, in museum and memorial anything happens:

😁😁😁

So, it's You choice between grey and green.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[John Masters]

 

 

On 11/12/2020 at 7:00 PM, PeterB said:

Will I ever learn😁!

 

Your struggles will be well rewarded I am sure Pete.  If it is any consolation, I will be jumping in again withe very same kit, albeit with aftermarket decals.  

 

I will be using some of your tips. I doubt I will get as serious regarding surgery, but some added bits are ok.

[PeterB]

It is said that Yorkshiremen like myself are stubborn (my wife says pigheaded actually). I don't know about that but we do not like to be beaten and perhaps that is a good thing because otherwise I suspect this kit would be in the bin by now. The horizontal tail and wings are wrong, there is no air intake trunking and no jetpipes, but I have fixed all of that, but now I find the ruddy missiles are wrong! This is what the K-5 aka RS-2-U aka AA-1 Alkali should look like-

and this is what the kit versions are like.

The dark grey one is the Heller version - nice thin rear fins but no front ones at all and a bit long and thin. The light grey one is the one for my Su-9 in the Interceptors GB - bit short with thick fins, but at least it has a full set and I can extend and round the nose, add the "spike at the back and thin the fins. Neither of them have the rocket exhausts either!.

 

In theory I should have some spares somewhere as the first Mig-17 kit I bought had them - I think it  was KP but I cannot find a Mig-17PFU on Scalemates and I seem to have thrown it, which is entirely out of character for me. So that leaves 4 options. Firstly I could splash out about £12 including postage and buy the Eduard-Brassin ones but as I said I come from Yorkshire and we are tight with our money. Secondly I could try reshaping them and adding front fins but that will be a real PITA. Thirdly I could try making resin copies of the ones from the Su-9 - tempting but probably won't work, and lastly I could say the kit is not accurate so why worry!

 

Time for a drink I think!

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Hi Serge,

 

The box art appears to be based on the pic you posted by Tchvetkov?, though it is "mirror image" and they have "Red 18" instead of "Blue 18" and "bronze" missiles instead of silver -strange! It appears Heller were a bit confused when they produced this kit and it is not one of their better efforts. In fact I am beginning to wonder if whoever did the research for Heller in fact ever actually saw a Mig-19 - at least one of this particular type! On top of all the other inaccuracies, I have now noticed that they want you to glue the pitot tube into a socket at the bottom of the nose intake ring - fine for anything like an F or S model, but as you will see from the pic Serge posted, the PM version had a longer pitot mounted near the starboard wingtip! Good job I bought the Master replacement set. I have not been able to use the replacement "rods" that stick out front of the missile pylons (either rails or more likely something to do with the missile guidance) as the Heller pylons are too thin for me to drill, but at least I have the right  length pitot tube!

 

Anyway, it is ready for a spray of aluminium.

 

Pete

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by PeterB

[Aardvark]

Pete, answer's will be latter, unfortunately, tomorrow I will be at the funeral of my uncle, who still could not defeat COVID despite all the efforts of his colleagues, so for some time I simply cannot and do not want to write.

 

Take care of yourself.

 

B.R.

Serge 

[stevehnz]

Sorry to hear this Serge, my sympathies go to you. Take care.

Steve.

[AdrianMF]

1 hour ago, Aardvark said:

Take care of yourself.

Very sorry to hear about your uncle. Take care of yourself too!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Pete, answer's will be latter, unfortunately, tomorrow I will be at the funeral of my uncle, who still could not defeat COVID despite all the efforts of his colleagues, so for some time I simply cannot and do not want to write.

 

Take care of yourself.

 

B.R.

Serge 

Im sorry for your loss Serge, please accept my condolences. 

[PeterB]

Hi Serge,

 

Sorry to hear that - take all the time you want. For the record I have given in and bought some replacement missiles as I managed to find them somewhat cheaper than I originally thought.

 

This ruddy virus is bad enough at the best of times, but given the disruption where you are I suppose it must be even more difficult - look after yourself.

 

Pete

[RidgeRunner]

10 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Pete, answer's will be latter, unfortunately, tomorrow I will be at the funeral of my uncle, who still could not defeat COVID despite all the efforts of his colleagues, so for some time I simply cannot and do not want to write.

 

Take care of yourself.

 

B.R.

Serge 

Condolences, Serge. Take care of yourself.

 

Martin

[PeterB]

As I mentioned above, in the end, and after the odd drink, I decided to buy the Eduard Brassin missile set - they do 2 versions, both for the very early Mig-21. The one I had seen included full pylons and was quite expenxive, but the also do a version which just has the launch rails and is quite a bit cheaper.

As with the other stuff I have bought from them they are very nice but can be rather fragile  - I bought some MG 81Z a while back and when I tried gently to straighten the badly bent barrels they broke! These come in 3 parts - the launch rails on the left that I probably won't be needing, the main missile body in dark grey and the tail in light grey. Seperating the main body from the moulding stub is a pain and getting the ends straight at the joint is tricky, but  I have assembled one, and above you will see it in between the Heller version on the top and the one from my Cooperativa Su-9 on the bottom. You can draw your own conclusions!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Aardvark]

On 11/18/2020 at 2:55 AM, PeterB said:

K-5 aka RS-2-U aka AA-1 Alkali should look like-

and this is what the kit versions are like.

The dark grey one is the Heller version - nice thin rear fins but no front ones at all and a bit long and thin. The light grey one is the one for my Su-9 in the Interceptors GB - bit short with thick fins, but at least it has a full set and I can extend and round the nose, add the "spike at the back and thin the fins.

Pete, as the answer promised.

 

 Basically, the Heller missile is quite similar to the original, I only see problems with the nose tip, rear end and steering surfaces.

Steering surfaces it is best to cut it from a thin sheet of plastic with a thickness of 0.15-0.2 mm, such plastic is usually found in food packages, the main thing is to correctly draw the contours on the plastic according to the drawings and then cut it off with a knife or scissors.

Rear end, here it is difficult, here  either need to choose a similar shape or make new ones according to the drawing from the sprue.

For nose tip, the simplest thing is to pick up the tip from the shaft of a roller pen, something like this:

as you see serious problems only with the rear end, the rest is not very difficult as for me.

 

About other.

First of all 

@stevehnz, @AdrianMF, @Corsairfoxfouruncle, @PeterB

I thank you's for the words of sympathy and support addressed to me.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 11:54 AM, PeterB said:

This ruddy virus is bad enough at the best of times, but given the disruption where you are I suppose it must be even more difficult - look after yourself.

Everything there was rather incomprehensible, despite the problems here caused by the positional war, the uncle could have the entire range of diagnostic and medical services available, including any medicines. Most likely, everything happened due to the wrongly chosen treatment tactics, with people of such a high rank who have a serious influence in society, this rarely, but happens. Of course, old age played an important role, although there were no critical diseases for this virus. In short, they delayed the treatment, despite the fact that there were no problems with the timeliness of diagnosis and treatment to doctors for a number of reasons. I cannot disclose details, not because I have some kind of external prohibitions, no, I just understand that this is a sufficiently resonant case, a case so shocking and extraordinary about which the official news and websites are silent, because it can be used in  as an informational occasion in the information war being conducted on this territory.

I can only note that the illness passed for a month and a half, it was connected to oxygen in early November, on November 18 the heart stopped, which was started during resuscitation, but it stopped again and resuscitation did not help ...

They also couldn't bury him with his parents because of the closed demarcation line ...

 

As for taking care of yourself, despite all the precautions I take, you's need to understand that if I have not already had this in a mild form (which is preferable) sooner or later everyone will have to ...as an example, my aunt's husband and his son have already been ill with covid, although they work in an ambulance, another example, when a friend of mine, a modeller, had this with the whole family (wife, two children, mother) ... so it's just a matter of time ...however, there may be worse events here ...

 

Thanks again for your's  support, gentlemen's!

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[Aardvark]

On 11/14/2020 at 12:03 AM, Aardvark said:

I'm really wrote this?  I must reread what I have written again.

I mean, there cannot be only one color for the radome of the Soviet Air Force / Air Defense - radome green, because in addition to green there were also various shades of gray. Because, as You see, those color photos of the MiG-17PF, Yak-25, I-3U, Ye-150/152A/M showing different 

grey radome colour, but in same time we know  MiG-21F-13, Su-7, Su-9 and further

colour radome was green, therefore, it is quite possible that

the same plane

radome was gray, but during repair, due to the introduction of new standards, the radome turned green. In order to accurately identify the time periods, I need to know the brand of green paint and the time it was put into operation, often when asked about the time, the number of the GOST or TU standard can tell. Without name green enamel and commissioning date, it is difficult to assert something guaranteed.  But in favor of the fact that there were most likely gray ones, these photos of prototypes of the further development of the MiG-19 speak:

Radome grey? Red "02" absolutely grey!

And look and photo MiG-17P from movie:

Radome grey? Absolutely!

Thus, we have a sequence:

- MiG-19 P predecessor  MiG-17 - grey,

MiG-19

development SM-12 - grey.

What should be the color of the MiG-19?  Probably gray ?!

From the only colour photo session (photograph Tchvetkov) I know of a MiG-19PM in service, it is impossible to determine whether it is gray or green, the angle is not the same:

which is published by all publications:

Grey? Light weathering green?

 

Yes, we have modern photo from Monino were radome green:

But it's museum, in museum and memorial anything happens:

😁😁😁

So, it's You choice between grey and green.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

B.w. other photo with grey colour radome SM-12PM further development of the MiG-19:

Another interesting photo of a MiG-17PF taken by a DS-8 stewardess

(on the photo with Soviet "papiroses" - cigarettes without a filter 😁 ) :

during its interception and subsequent forced landing at the Soviet airfield Burevestnik, Kuril Islands in 1968 (known also as  "Iturup incident"

https://topwar.ru/19237-iturupskiy-incident-1968-goda.html ) :

What's the color of the radar here?  Gray or Green?  The photo was subsequently published by the Times magazine, maybe someone came across a photo with better colors?

 

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited November 24, 2020 by Aardvark

[AV O]

Hi,

 

One issue of the Heller kit is the "Coke Bottle " shape they gave to the fuselage.

You can notice it here, close to the old KP, together with the different wing sweep back :

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29221-comparing-sizes/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-3518065

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by AV O

[PeterB]

Good Heavens,

 

Somebody has actually built this kit! Yes the shape is a bit questionable at times as I have discovered, but there is not  lot more I can do, and in fairness I doubt anybody from Heller would have been able to get close to the real thing back in those days.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[PeterB]

So, after a considerable delay waiting for the weather to improve, I sprayed on some AK Interactive Xtreme Metal "Light Aluminium". This is the first time I have used it but it worked quite well.

I will leave it for a couple of days to harden properly then mask it up and see if I can add some panels of their slightly darker "Aluminium. It will probably be a disaster but it is worth a try. Pictures do not show much colour variation and they almost always look a bit faded and dull, but a bit of contrast will be nice.

 

Cheers

 

Pete