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HMS Jed - River Class Frigate, 1/350 Starling Models conversion


socjo1

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you Jeff for kind words...

WARNING: Today you can find here too few good modelling photos but too many words about historical blah blah details.

 

You are warned.

If you arent' discouraged, I invite you to some considerations about

 

the BRIDGE.

 

TtkBtS5.jpg

No Gene, no Bridge Too Far*. Just bridge on the Jed River.

 

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OK?

Better, but still not exactly. We are doing model of frigatte.

OK, I got it! So let's remind how the bridge looked in Starling''s model:

2CoRBwW.jpg

 

It looks very nice and well detailed, similar to roomy and open bridge on Castle corvettes:

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But, as you had seen earlier, I simply demolished this pretty bridge (no pleasure, really!). Why?

Because I think it was somewhat different appearance on Rivers. Beside I wanted some extra-detailing works and easier option was simply: "shave his belly with a rusty razor" 😉

I saw a few drawnings. First type of bridge was simple (drawning of HMS Exe, HMS Spey is quite similar):

Rvy22ie.jpg

 

It is quite close to model's arrangements, but not the same. For example, we haven't inner walls in model. Good question: were walls around compass platform or not? It is not easy to answer after looking at bridge of HMS Exe. But if we look at the Spey's drawning, we can see doors there. Morover: let's read Mr. Brian Lavery's book, p.70. There is constructor W.J. Holt's raport from HMS Spey (!), May 1942:

Quote

The small sort of platform on which the gyrocompass and standard compass are mounted is enclosed within a small wooden screen structure [...] By sitting a chair inside wooden screen...

 

Problem with this - let's call it - simpler (maybe earlier?) arrangement is - I couldn't find photos. Only one (HMS Exe). You can clearly see courtain and kind of window to front A/S office (exactly like in shown drawning's descriptions!):

Y9ykQBd.jpg

Nothing more to add.

 

OK, but what abot HMS Nadder? Remember, we have a Nadder's drawning in the same book:

Furvf5o.jpg

Not good quality, but you can easily notice even more differencies with model.

 

Another vessel's bridges were more developed. You can see there more inner walls, on Canadians even double Oerlikons and "Mickey Mouse ears" external platforms in back area (you can find many photos with such arrangements): 

8lB7k02.jpg

above: HMCS Thetford Mines

below: HMCS Swale

muwYD1Q.jpg

 

It is not all (Oh, Gosh!). It's worth to mention different arrangement of top edges. Most (I think!) ships had windbreakers on side bridge's walls (like HMS Nadder), while some ships hadn't (look at red arrow). Below you can see HMS Rother (HMS Jed had it the same way):

 

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Some Canadians (with twin Oerlikons?) had folding canvas covers there (HMCS Prestonian😞

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OK, lot of words, but most important: what about modeller's interpretation?

 

***

 

Here you have! It 's how it most likely looked:

 

7WdSZOn.jpg

 

How do you like it, Britney?

No? OK, I can prepare something different. I don't care!

 

Detailing bridge was quite time - comsuming. I added about 40 parts: plastic pieces, tin wire, wooden deck.It was like "model in model". You can see hollowed front wall, inner walls (I drawn imitation of boards on some walls with pencil), raised compass platform and slinging courtain (aluminium foil). Windows are from Rainbow's set "Japanese bridge windows" but you can easily use some spare PE railings, ladders and so on. Voice pipes - North Star Bridge Equipment set.

 

I brushed matt varnish mixed wit a few drops of gray colour on wooden deck. Now wood has more blended colour and is slightly better harmonised with a rest of modell. I removed side top windbreakers. Funny thing - adding them was quite hard job on Castle corvette, while this model had very nice represenation of this detail but it had to be removed.... Modeller's life...😉

ktdhrDu.jpg

 

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And with phone box radar compartment. Parts will be fixed later, now I'm only trying fitting and arrangement.

More details will be added later (signal lights, compass, pelorus and so on). Many paint corrections are must!

I added plastic 0,2 x 05 mm profiles to platform's legs. Now they are thicker but much stronger, they don't fold and bend so easily.

Canvas covers I made from tea bag paper.

 

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Yes, you are very patient... and call me bridge-freak!🤪 I hope builiding process will be quicker and more straightforward now! And my posts will be shorter and more compact...

 

PS.

End of year was busy and I had no time and mood for modelling. Thanksfully - buing books for your job's library is really pleasant activity 🙂

 

My wife, son and I are OK, but two months (?) after COVID I'm still a little bit weak. Normally I am able to go daily 30 km in the mountains  with backpack or skiing 50 km on Back Country Ski (last February) , but now... 10 km in flat country, slow walking and nothing in rucksack is quite a lot. But slowly, slowly, and step by step things will be better I am sure...

And we missing snow and frost. Usually in Poland we had 2 or 3 monts of winter, - 5 C or even sometimes - 30 Celsius. Of course, it is not always pleasure and easy, but if you want find pleasures and beauty - you'll find... Two - three last winters are quite different. Always above 0 C, fog, smog and rain....:puke: Nothing funny for peple with asthma...

I live in 2 mlns people city. Thanksfullly - about 1 km from it's borders and from forrest. Not big - about 2 x 6 kms, but you can spot here scabies, woodpeckers, sometimes boars... We have here remains of German trenches from 1944 (against Russians)... I like walk there, or take the ski. That was 7 years ago, our common excursions (sometimes even in the night...) were very impoortant for my wife's psychical condition after Mikolaj's birth...

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One or two years later:

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I like these two photos as well, not far from home. Very normal places and things, but the moment created beauty.

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Frozen bidings

 

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Snow gate to forrest

 

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Sometimes modelling allows you just thinking nothing. And it seems good...

 

---------

* Shnoor (polish sznur) means rope in polish. Gene Hackman in "Bridge to far" played polish para's colonel Stanislaw Sosabowski. Very interesting person, he was against very risky plan of Mrket - Garden. In one of movie's scene he shout "give me shnoorr" with funny scottish (?) - polish accent. It seems somewhat Shakespearian "A shnoorr, shnoor, my kingdom for a shnoor....). And here you have real gen. Sosa

 

bowski:

Sosabowski_Stanislaw3.jpg

 

Thank you for your (lot of!) patience and sorry for such a "autospamming you" 😉

Questions and comment welcomed.

 

Your bridge - freak.

Edited by socjo1
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Gidday Michal, with so many versions of the bridge area it must be a bit confusing for you. But I'm pretty certain no 'River' class frigate had the tower bridge structure of the Graf Spee😀 That bridge structure you've done looks very good.

     I hope your health continues to improve. Your part of the world looks very peaceful and beautiful but I think it would be a bit too cold for me.

Regards, Jeff.

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8 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

. But I'm pretty certain no 'River' class frigate had the tower bridge structure of the Graf Spee😀

 

 

Never say never!

I'll check it in my reference photos and let you know. I hope find something interresting...

Edited by socjo1
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Great research Michal.  But I think its true to say that no two ships in any class are identical, especially not after a few months service.  That's why it's so important - but often so very difficult - to get dated contemporaneous photographs to show the actual ship at exactly the right period in history, sometimes even a few days can make the difference.

 

If you don't mind me digressing slightly, this is a true story.

 

Some years ago I converted the Airfix DEVONSHIRE to represent GLAMORGAN as she was in Choiseul Sound in the Falklands on 13 June 1982, the day after being hit by the Exocet, in honour of those who lost their lives that day.  There was a lot of photographic evidence on which to base the modifications and the damage, but they were all in black and white.  The dilemma I had was did she have green decks or had they been painted grey by then, since this was the transition period?  I found one colour photograph that was titled "HMS GLAMORGAN, Gibraltar, April 1982" that showed green decks around the 4.5 inch turret so that was the proof I needed. 

 

I later showed the model at the Yeovilton Model Show in about 2013/14 and one gentleman showed great interest in the model.  After about 10 minutes or so he came over and said that the model was excellent but had one error in the decks were green and should be grey.  I explained the research that I had done any why I chose green, to which he replied that he was onboard GLAMORGAN during that time and was the "Ship's Painter" (an Able Seaman whose job it was to look after the paint locker, issue paint and associated solvents to parts of ship when needed and account for the paint onboard).   Apparently the green decks were in a pretty shocking state in April 1982 and were due to be repainted when the ship returns to Portsmouth so they managed to get them repainted by the dockyard in Gib while alongside because they felt the harsh weather in the South Atlantic would wreak havoc with the ship structure otherwise.  Gibraltar only had grey paint!

 

Great work though.

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Gidday, If I may continue the digression, I believe that a Falklands 40th anniversary GB is planned for next year, and I was intending to do exactly what you did Chewy - the Airfix HMS Devonshire to HMS Glamorgan. I would have gone green decks if you hadn't told us grey. As the GB approaches (plenty of time yet) I'd be interested in seeing photos of your model.

 

     Sorry about that Michal, back to your model. I agree with Chewy in that the appearance of ships can change over time, and photos can be very helpful. However, if none are available and you take an 'educated guess' on the ship's appearance it is unlikely that anyone can say you're wrong. If I make a model of an actual ship (not a whiff) I now try to get it as accurate as I can, but there comes a time when I say "Enough research, start building".

     And speaking of building, you're doing an excellent job of yours.

Regards, Jeff.

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2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

I would have gone green decks if you hadn't told us grey. As the GB approaches (plenty of time yet) I'd be interested in seeing photos of your model.

Jeff,

To avoid hijacking Michal's thread, I've just PM'd you with the links

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Responding to your question over on the Porchester Castle thread re your ship's bottom. I have not (yet) found any AFO specifically adding the River Class ships to the list given in that 1941 AFO. But it dealt in types ie corvettes not Classes. You appear to be building Jed as she was in December 1942? The River Class were originally officially designated "twin screw corvettes" and were not officially re-classified as "frigates" until 25 February 1943. However it could be that for painting purposes they continued to be treated as per corvettes after that.  I have very few photos showing the bottom of wartime RN River Class frigates but those I do have show no different/distinct boot topping tone/colour above the rest of the bottom (some may turn up of course). On balance I think I would assume no boot topping on Jed and that the bottom colour came up to the camouflage paint at the waterline. From the very little that can be seen in the few photos of Jed, her bottom appears very dark but it is impossible to say whether this is black or red/brown. I think if I were in your shoes I would consider giving her an all-black bottom.  

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On 09/01/2021 at 14:51, Chewbacca said:

Great research Michal.  But I think its true to say that no two ships in any class are identical, especially not after a few months service.  [...]

 

If you don't mind me digressing slightly, this is a true story. [...]

 

@Chewbacca , @ArnoldAmbrose Thanks for comments, I agree with you. And thanks for your story. It's always interesting read such personal memories. I am happy our conversation helped Jeff, even even if somewhat accidentally.

 

13 hours ago, dickrd said:

 I think if I were in your shoes I would consider giving her an all-black bottom.  

 

Thank you very much for your help and sharing knowledge! I took my shoes off, but they were still crying loudly: give her black bottom!

So I'll do it.

 

Meanwhile...

Sometimes ships can be somewhat wet...

Macquarie.jpg.623ef08cb7964da10970523430

 

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(photos above: HMAS Macquarie), https://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-macquarie

 

Beware of slip!

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(photos from www.forposterityssake.ca/ )

 

Remedy is so easy...

 

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(Castle class)

 

But which pattern to chose?

 

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(IWM)

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And which pattern do you like most?

 

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I have already chosen:

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Rather manual machining... In progress!

 

Edited by socjo1
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13 minutes ago, socjo1 said:

I took my shoes off, but they were still crying loudly: give her black bottom!

LOL 😁

Gidday Michal, those first four photos above looked like a nice pleasant Sunday afternoon sail. Regards, Jeff.

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46 minutes ago, Courageous said:

and they were the reason that I went into subs!

Gidday Stuart, you're welcome to those things, even in peacetime. I like the open sky above me, even if it is half full of water. Regards, Jeff.

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5 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday Stuart, you're welcome to those things, even in peacetime. I like the open sky above me, even if it is half full of water. Regards, Jeff.

Preferably with at least some of that sky beneath me as well!

 

Edit: I am only partly joking, too.  I am lucky that I was never susceptible to sea sickness - but even so trying to work on a ship in heavy weather can be exhausting & exasperating.  My Observer was less lucky than me with the motion.  Occasionally, if I could persuade the Captain, I used to get airborne for a couple of hours in rough seas just to give poor FLOBS (Flight Observer) a break and to do something that didn’t involve just hanging on with one hand and trying to avoid being thrown off your chair!

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On 12/01/2021 at 00:44, socjo1 said:

Meanwhile...

Sometimes ships can be somewhat wet...

 

Great photos Michal 👍

 

On 12/01/2021 at 07:26, Courageous said:

:sick::sick:...and they were the reason that I went into subs!

 

Stuart

 

Wimp! :laugh:.  At least if we did ever feel queasy we had fresh air and a horizon.  The one time I went out in an O Boast I was parting company with breakfast before we got to the mouth of the River Dart from the smell of the diesel fumes (and before you say anything, yes I know the nuclear boats were very different!)

 

On 12/01/2021 at 10:35, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Preferably with at least some of that sky beneath me as well!

 

Edit: I am only partly joking, too.  I am lucky that I was never susceptible to sea sickness - but even so trying to work on a ship in heavy weather can be exhausting & exasperating.  My Observer was less lucky than me with the motion.  Occasionally, if I could persuade the Captain, I used to get airborne for a couple of hours in rough seas just to give poor FLOBS (Flight Observer) a break and to do something that didn’t involve just hanging on with one hand and trying to avoid being thrown off your chair!

 

Know what you mean Crisp.  I was mostly okay with bad weather though sailing from Devonport into a Force 8 after a combined Trafalgar/Taranto night the night before in which we dined out my predecessor was a challenge for anyone.  It was great when we found him still on board having overslept, failed to get ashore before we sailed and we then had to get airborne to fly him back ashore.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/01/2021 at 12:06, dickrd said:

 if I were in your shoes I would consider giving her an all-black bottom.  

Aye, aye sire. To give her black bottom!

H83Kncr.jpg

 

Let me go back to anti-skid plates question.

I remember a few months ago Rob tried to get right anti-skid plates for his cruisers. Some time later I reckoned many frigattes (and corvettes) had anti-skid plates installed on decks too. Not all, but quite a lot. Usually steel plates were installed on:

1: front of breakwater,

2: around the funnel and anti-aircraft platform and

3: on quarterdeck. 

I noticed three main patterns of plates. Idea to recreate such interesting details was very attractive. So I asked Pawel from Shelfoddity if he could design and etch such sheets for me. Few weeks later I found in my post-box envelope with 4 plates in 3 patterns:

Om1RwNc.jpg

 

I carefully took a measure and cutted pieces of plates (millimetric paper was very helpful once again!) To cut a straight line I have done a line with a sharp scalpel and then cutted with scissors. Leaving space for railings is essential!

L2DyvLR.jpg

  Then I sprayed a coat of strong primer (Black Alclad) and grey deck colour on plates. To fix them to deck I used glue in spray be Velpon company:

f-velpon-klej-w-sprayu-200ml-klej.jpg

In few places I have done some amedments with super-glue (CA) and then gave a coat of matt varnish.That’s how it looks now:

WdREl6o.jpg

 

Of course, it would be much easier and better effect fixing the plates much earlier, before painting decks, but as I said earlier, idea adding plates was quite fresh.

 

Before fixing plates I had to remove vents, breakwater-supports and another details. Plate's ribs are very delicate so it is well-worth to make some painting-tricks. I highlited them with light grey drybrush and with pencil to achieve differentiated effect:

yjBeykD.jpg

 

I fixed earlier cutted hawsepipes and gave them extra lids (tin wire). Reconstructed earlier removed breakwater's supports. I had lot of fun with two details:

- anchor-winch. This comes from original Starling’s kit and is simply stunning. To paint I used Metal Gun pigment, brown, rust and black washes. Then I added  4 wheel-knobs (Northstarmodels set) as you can see at one of earlier attached photos of real ship.

- Hedgehog. Black Cat, much better than kit's part (which is not bad, but Black Cat was just killer 😉 ).

AjuD9qR.jpg

 

I fixed A-A guns platform (or deck? Is it "only" platform or deck?). Extra adds are 6 vertical supports (like in the photo on this threat's page 1) with triangulars and ribs under platform. I "trimmed" too high stairs-railing as well.

One important notice about latteral platform's supports - it's another producer's mistake. In model they are X shape, so adding two vertical rods is must (easy-peasy task:whistle:). As always, remember leave place for railings.

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I didn't install plates on quarterdeck/stern as there are to much details to removing and then redoing/fixing again. Oh, you lazy boy!:bangin:   :giggle:

 

I don't know if Shelfoddity will have anti-skid plates "on shelf", but if you need such set, just contact them, they will produce it for you.

 

... and finally (as always) auto-spammer's corner.

In my previous post I attached photo of polish general, Sosabowski. Mikołaj was very interesting - he asked me about him, about Arnhem battle... Suddenly disappeared and said: I will become gen Sosabowski! It is a result of his metamorphosis:

2FFP8Ji.jpg

... and Sosabowski once more (polish paras weared grey berets, not red):

Sosabowski_Stanis%C5%82aw-mini.jpg

 

***

As Winter has back (not for long 😞 ) I had to seize the opportunity and go skiing. Still not 100% healthy, but never mind!  Week ago on Sunday temperature was – 12C, so I called my friends and we left the city tooking a short ski-trip, about 8 kms. For some of my friends it was first time walking on skis, but they enjoyed it and for me it is always great satisfaction to share a passion with somebody else and introducing them to new activities!

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Break for funny small-talks and meal:

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My Winter Queen:

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Ellegant woman always wears skirt (made from goose-down 😉

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We visited such place as well:

ENdhi02.jpg

It is named "Airman Hill" It is place where B-24 Liberator KG 939 „A-Able” hit the ground during night 14/15 August 1944. Their crew were airmens from 31 Squadron South African Air Force. The started from North Italy and flew to help Warsaw Uprising by dropping containers with weapons, medicine and so on. These operations ("Warsaw Concerto") were very dangerous. A for Able was hit by flak over burning city. After airdrop, his commander - Jack van Eyssen took a direction East and flew about 10 kms - toward Soviet's lines but couldn't reach them. Three airmen died during crash, rest of them parashooted succesfully and after reaching Soviet's lines got Italy. If you want read more, here you can find similar story.  

And here is van Eyssen's biography.

 

Few days later I took my son for skiing too. It was his first time but enjoyed very much. Almost one hour walking!

GEFfclj.jpg

 

Thanks for reading and watching,

best regards,

Michal.

 

Edited by socjo1
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  • 1 month later...

Today nothing about snow and skiing, just simpy TLTR 🥱 and plenty of language mistakes.

 

Not much to show and see but lot of work for me. Bridge’s supports are one of the „trademarks” of british escort vessels. Similar structures had Flower corvettes and especially Castles. To achieve nice and clean result, good planning is must. That’s how I did, maybe you’ll find easier and better way.

 

First of all, I checked height of supports and bridge. I noticed supports were to high, so I slightly shortened these. Good diamond file and/or electro micro grinder (Dremel style) are essential. I cutted as well bridge's bottom edge.  Then I strenghtened all vertical bars by glueing 0,3 x 0,5 mm Plastrust profiles. I always do it, this gives more 3D effect as well, I like it. Then I fixed supports:

 

aF4w9mf.jpg

You can see big gap between support and bridge, a few layers of CA glue and Mr. Surfacer will fill it. 

Next, I fixed horizontal support bars (0,5 x 0,5mm).

yTn6hNR.jpg

Two horizontal bars will help me install platforms/decks. On real ships these small decks/platforms sometimes weren't intstalled but it is always worth to add these bars, as they were important parts strengthening construction - even as platforms were absent. I did this way on my previous model, HMCS Copper Cliff:

CZ8mIuo.jpg

HMCS Humberstone from http://www.forposterityssake.ca/ (Castle class)

 

1758396845_P1050383(Copy).thumb.jpg.f734

 

Next step: fitting and trying of platforms'decks. Right platform was even harder: we have to install stairs here, behind platform is located engine-vents which is colliding with platform. So I have to trim and carefully slightly cut a platform to fit. 

f1zoKsH.jpg

 

When both platforms were located and fixed (by CA glue!) I noticed my fault. I fixed transverse bars in wrong angle, not horizontal and platforms looked extremly bad! I was really frustrated, had no idea what to do with bad-looking details. As always night and sleep have brught solutions and ideas. I decided to take a risk. I had to lower external platform's edges about 4 mm. I prepared small bloque of polystyrene and located under platform. It's main aim was preventing platform against completly snapping.

Next I bend an injection needle and flattened it's end. I had a precise tool with good acces for pressuring! After treating joinings with CA-glue debonder I firmly but delicate pressed down platform by needle. I was lucky guy! Glue released but polystyrene block have saved construction from disaster!

 

cZcURce.jpg 

 

After refixing platforms in proper, horisontal positions, I sliped a chairs on it's place. It was really camasutra-modelling 😉 You can see as well how gap between support and bridge finally looks:

bAXZoU2.jpg

 

The next stages were really easy-peasy: bridge's eqipment. Important question: when earlier I tried to fit Oerlikon's ammo boxes, I noticed they were to big:

2VoFJCy.jpg

 

Such lockers as you can see on the foto are very common, you can find it in Black Cat set, North Star Models (covers) or Allinace Modelworks. As they were to big, this time I tried something different: Micromaster set. And... this set is really Master (nomen omen!). It contains different boxes for 4, 6 or 20 drums, with and without additioonal supports for installing on railings, walls and so on. That was exactly what I need! I used four pieces of 4-drum lockers and it fitted perfectly according to ship's drawnings!

IvMnWc5.jpg

 

CtM8jRD.jpg

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(rigt side: I create my version of Hedgehog's missiles locker)

 

I added extra signal lamps and lookout posts from excellent North Star Models set. Also added small platform highly in front of radar-dome and oil lamp on it. One said infromation: after trying fit Oerlikons (Black Cat but it doesn't matter) they were apperaring to low. Their barrels were below bridge's edges and it looked silly. I cutted round puck of polystyrene and filled with it lowest level of Oerlikon's Zareba (platform). Then I hightened gun with another piece of plastic. It helped a little.

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That's all for today, thanks for watching and stay safe!

Best regards,

Michal.

(no skiing, I remember I had promised you! 😉 )

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

It's lot of time since my last uppdate and still not a radical progress...

However I'm still satisfyied - I finished forecastle area, everything is on its place, except a few vents and armament. Let's see how it looks.

Model is already on its base:

frPWJva.jpg

I confess: I like such simple-style supports for bases. All these highly-shine and barocco-style supports fits better for old, elegant sail-ships or victorian steamers... And all these masss producing, pure-utility 2 World War vessels needs something simplier. Of course it is only my personal taste.

 

Anchor from North Star Models set. They are better detailed than Starling's original parts.

Main chains from Trumpeter's set, smaller, side chains were made by my from 3 lead wires by tangling them like braid:

iTfRkph.jpg

 

rlYoaZe.jpg

 

I've added extra derricks with ropes, lockers (3D Black Cat, Micromaster and PE Flyhawk) and auxiliary anchors (stolen from spare PE set) You can see as well a few buckles for rigging (L'Arsenal):

vgYO2NN.jpg

 

yPEM0HG.jpg

 

Inner ladder (Rainbow PE set) and main gun ammo lockers:

Yxa8w4e.jpg

 

ejerBsM.jpg

 

1. Original Micromaster part (for 4.7 inch gun, not for 4!)

2. After splitting Micromaster's part for two pieces I had locker which was quite simillar to original ammo lockers I had seen in photos.

3. Model had round style loop DR antenna while real HMS Jed had square antenna. I found it in Flyhawk's RN radars and antennas set.

4. Model's flag locker.

5. More detailed Flyhawk's lockers. Unfortunately too big.

6. My version and components (painted plastruct profile, PE net)

7. Otter (?) from Black Cat. Do you know what color could be? Yellow? (not red,in Jed's photo it is quite light).

lPbInPZ.jpg

 

Flag deck:

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yQ9F0rH.jpg

 

...

A few interesting books anchored recently on shelf in my house. Any more-depth informations needed?

y6UA8wL.jpg

 

Best regards,

Michał

 

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