Dornier Do 215B inner fin splinter camouflage

[lasermonkey]

Hi,

I'm at the stage on my ICM 1/72 Do 215 where I'm masking up the splinter camouflage. While the ICM instructions are mostly OK, there are several areas of the aircraft that they don't show, namely the insides of the fins/rudders and what's behind the engine nacelles. While I have worked out the demarcations on the fuselage, I haven't managed to find a a consistent pattern for the fins. None of the photos of actual aircraft I've seen show the delineations and on the various models I've seen at least two different layouts. The one thing I have noticed is the slanted area of RLM 65 below the tailplanes that I'll have to add later.

 

If anyone could help out I'd be much obliged, as I'm going to get stalled otherwise.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[warhawk]

I've checked my references, and there is a factory painting scheme.

However, it does not show the rudder inner sides...

This is probably the reason ICM chose not to provide those, too.

[72modeler]

Mark,

 

I've got the Kagero and the Classic Publications monographs on the Do-215; I'll check them to see if there's anything on the paint demarcation of the inner fins- will let you know if I find anything definite.

Mike

[lasermonkey]

Thanks very much, gentlemen. It's very much appreciated.

 

Mark.

[72modeler]

Mark,

 

I had a chance to look into both of my Do-215 monographs, as well as the Monogram Color Guide to Luftwaffe Colors and Markings, and there were no drawings or color illustrations that showed how the inner fins were painted. The Classic Publications book did have the factory paint diagram for the top and both sides, but nothing that showed the inner surfaces of the fin/rudder. That being said, after looking at all of the photos in both references, it appears that the inner surfaces of both fins and rudders were painted solid in RLM 71, which is also the same color that is adjacent to them on the horizontal stabilizers. If you want to pm me with your email address, I can take a photo of the factory paint diagram and send it to you, but it won't show how the inner fins were finished. My guess is that they were both solid RLM71, as what would be the reason to have a two-color demarcation on the inner surfaces, since they would not be seen, and also because that is the color of the pattern on the horizontal stabilizers where they meet the fins/rudders. Best I can do with what's in my references- hopefully somebody else will be able to help- sorry!

Mike

[lasermonkey]

Thanks for looking @72modeler it's much appreciated. Although I had spent several evenings googling, I hadn't looked through my books, (duh!) so I checked those last night. I also have the Classic Luftwaffe Colours and Markings books, along with the Hikoki/Ullmann one, so not sure how I managed to forget about those! Anyway, after scouring through ten or so books, I managed to find three photos where the inner fins were visible enough to get an idea of how they were painted. One, probably the same one you mentioned, looked to be a single colour. The other two looked like they had two distinct colours, but had differing patterns. 

 

The bit of me that's "on the spectrum" is being driven crazy by the lack of conclusive evidence. My need to know things is quite overwhelming at times and not knowing is like a mental itch that can't be scratched. However, the Do 215 I'm building is for the BoB groupbuild, so I'm going to choose one and to hell with the consequences. The last thing I need is an excuse not to finish something!

 

Thanks once again for all the help.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, lasermonkey said:

Mark.

Know what you mean- I also had forgotten I had the Aircraft in Profile on the Do-215, but it didn't have any photos or drawings that showed the inner fins. I say, unless a former Luftwaffe erk sees your model (highly unlikely!) and remembers how those structures were painted, who's gonna know or dispute you? Good luck- the 215 is a mighty handsome airplane! Aren't the ICM Do-17/Do-215 kits outstanding? Maybe someday they will  do the Do-217K's and N's! Even better would be a state of the art He-219, since I don't think Tamiya is ever going to get around to doing their 1/48 kit in our scale.

Mike

[lasermonkey]

For my BoB groupbuild entry, I was going to use the original ICM kit, as I had one in the stash. The more I looked at it, the more I feared that I'd never be able to complete it within the allotted timeframe. Someone then mentioned that ICM had issued a newer tooling, so I chickened out and bought that. I'm glad I did. You'd never know that the same company was responsible for both kits. The engineering on the newer kit is very impressive. Despite some complex compound curves, the vast majority of the parts fit precisely. Only the engine nacelles are unnecessarily complicated with over thirty parts on each one, and care is needed to align the many parts.

 

The detail is equally impressive and thanks to the clarity of the transparencies, much of it can be seen. On the original kit the clear parts were more translucent than transparent.

 

Overall, I think it's a fine kit and one that I would recommend to anyone with some experience.

[Hook]

47 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

You'd never know that the same company was responsible for both kits.

Having both the original and new ICM 215B-5 in the stash, I know the feeling!

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[fubar57]

I've seen official paint diagrams for almost every Luftwaffe aircraft such as the one below. Odd that there isn't one floating around for this aircraft.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by fubar57
added photo

[sloegin57]

On 26/09/2020 at 15:48, 72modeler said:

Mark,

 

I had a chance to look into both of my Do-215 monographs, as well as the Monogram Color Guide to Luftwaffe Colors and Markings, and there were no drawings or color illustrations that showed how the inner fins were painted. The Classic Publications book did have the factory paint diagram for the top and both sides, but nothing that showed the inner surfaces of the fin/rudder. That being said, after looking at all of the photos in both references, it appears that the inner surfaces of both fins and rudders were painted solid in RLM 71, which is also the same color that is adjacent to them on the horizontal stabilizers. If you want to pm me with your email address, I can take a photo of the factory paint diagram and send it to you, but it won't show how the inner fins were finished. My guess is that they were both solid RLM71, as what would be the reason to have a two-color demarcation on the inner surfaces, since they would not be seen, and also because that is the color of the pattern on the horizontal stabilizers where they meet the fins/rudders. Best I can do with what's in my references- hopefully somebody else will be able to help- sorry!

Mike

It appears to me that Mike, @72modeler is on the right track.

 

In the February 1972 edition of Scale Models, R C Jones published two type unlabelled drawings of what I believe to be the early factory upper surface splinter camouflage schemes for the Do 215.  Although the patterns are the same, the colours appear to have been swapped around.

 

Of interest to this thread are the comments around the tailplanes and fins.  "Innen" (Inner) on both surfaces indicates a single block of colour.  On Drawing 'A' it is Braun Nr.61, on Drawing 'B', it is Grun Nr.62.  The outer surfaces are labelled "aussen: Hoheitszeichen" which Google translates as "Highlights".

 

Whether or not this was a particular feature of just Dornier built aircraft or are applicable to twin fin Luftwaffe aircraft overall, I do not know.  There is nothing to indicate anything in the article text or in any other of my references in either book or magazine form.  It may have been just a Dornier "thing"

 

Attached are the two drawings plus a simplified scheme, but unlabelled, for the Do 217E :- 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this helps a bit

 

Dennis