Amiot 143 numéro deux, de nombreux L390

[TonyW]

Get me, going all French with the thread title! Auto translators have their uses.

 

I think there's going to be a few of these beauties cropping up during the GB, so I had better get mine in early now that Pat has opened the batting, or should that be cast the first Boule?

 

It's a SMER boxing of the Heller Classic Amiot 143 and everything inside the box looks good to go.

 

 

I've got a couple of very useful references and I've raided both for my intended scheme. The French Bomber book is current and very useful indeed for all things bomber. The L'Aviation Francaise is in French, issued in 1973 and may be a bit difficult to find. It's got quite a few three view plans showing cammo patterns. How accurate these are is anyones guess but they are better than pure guesswork. It seems that French colour application was a bit freeform, so any pointers are useful.

 

 

 

The cammo colours will make a change from the usual brown, the French Bomber book gives a side profile and a decent photo, the 1973 Aviation Francaise volume has a top view that will be handy for the cammo pattern. The two planes shown are from the same squadron. I like the look of the wavy demarcation line on No86, so will go with that one.

 

So there we go, all set and ready to rock.

 

Tony.

[Rabbit Leader]

The decals look more than useable Tony as do those references. I think we’ll see quite a few of these kits too, so looking forward to seeing how you get on with this monster!! 
Cheers. Dave

[Wez]

Tony,

 

Another example of the bomber that carried its own bus shelter! Again, pleased to see it in the GB.

 

Welcome and good luck.

[Toryu]

Yeah, I'm waiting to see this one - it's the craziest of all!

[JOCKNEY]

Great stuff Tony

 

Sorry that I missed this when you first posted.

 

Only in this GB could we have three Amiot 143's and all with different colour schemes, "vive la difference"

 

Cheers Pat

[TonyW]

And we're off!

 

A bit of parts cleanup followed by a black undercoat for the sides and undersides and a couple of other bits and bobs.  

The cowls are joined and so are the wheel spats. both are drying off. 

I can work on the wings later. The fuselage is going to need a bit of an interior. I'll be having a think about that one.

 

It's good to get started.

 

 

[TonyW]

A bit more got done this afternoon. The fuselage rivets are history. They looked very oversized in black. The cowls and spats got a bit of matt black added and the tops of the wings got hit in grey. I'm debating on removing the rivets here as well. The cammo might calm things down a bit. I'll have a think on it. The glass areas will need sorting out as well, the fuselage windows look like armour plated glass.

 

[TonyW]

I've spent a bit of time trying to sort out camouflage colours today. My head is spinning. Luftwaffe colours are a doddle compared to French ones. I shouldn't get wound up about this but there's a bit of conflicting info regarding the Amiot.

 

The overall Chocolate colour scheme is a case in point. Dark or Milk? Somewhere in between? The one in the Humbrol Authentics set should be a shoe in but the other colours look a bit suspect to me, so how can I trust the Chocolate?

 

I've tried the Authentics Khaki on the wings. It seems very dark indeed and a bit on the green side as well.

 

 

The reference I'm using for the wing pattern calls out Maroon for one of the three colours! It's the only plane in the entire reference that uses that colour. The French Bombers of WW2 book shows another plane from the same outfit but suggests Dark Green, Dark Earth, Dark Blue-Grey.

Green and Blue Grey I can see. Dark Earth though? If it was a repaint from the original Chocolate would leaving the Chocolate as is and applying the other two colours be more likely?

 

Current Heller colours in the Humbrol range suggest 96 for the dark blue grey, 80 for the green and 91 for the Dark Earth although that one looks a bit chocolate like if you squint a bit. These have been taken from a Potez 63 instruction sheet. The same sheet also says 65 for the undersides for the Potez. That one looks very light blue rather than the light blue greys mentioned in other references. Earlier yet Heller instruction sheets list a Humbrol green that is very bright that seems to be out of fashion these days. I haven't got the number to hand but I've used the green on a Bloch 200 and it's almost grass green.

 

Confused? Me too.

 

I'm a fag paper away from just using what I think looks right. I have a sneaking suspicion that's what the other references have done as well.

 

[Heather Kay]

I’ve used a set of Colourcoats enamels for all my French builds so far.

 

 

I don’t know if that helps or hinders your ultimate choices, but I’ve been told the colours look about right. 

[TonyW]

Very nice indeed! They look right, and that's what matters.

 

The green is very close to the Humbrol bright green I mention late in the post. Recently published colour views seem to lean towards a more olive green. 

[Foxbat]

I just got this set as I have a sudden influx of French aircraft of the period: https://www.hataka-hobby.com/en_US/p/HTK-BS16-Early-WW2-French-Air-Force-paint-set/893

 

To my eye Brun Foncé looks quite chocolate and there are both the bright and olive greens so something for all occasions. 

 

Andy

[TonyW]

Thanks Heather and Andy, useful pointers from both of you.

 

I spent the evening studying every picture I could find of all kinds of French aircraft. I'm a bit clearer with how to proceed, at least as far as the Amiot is concerned. First up, the rivets are going. The pictures I've seen look very smooth indeed. That's job one.

 

I'll use the 1973 reference for the cammo pattern although a big part of me thinks it might be a work of fiction. It's a guide. Colour wise, I'll be making things up when I get there. Hopefully I'll have a better understanding at that point.

 

Removing the rivets and using different transfers, or decals in this case, along with a few mods I'll be making take this build out of my nostalgia comfort zone. I guess that means more current colour practice will be the way forward there as well.

It has crossed my mind that another one, built straight out the box with early Heller colours would make a nice counterpoint to this one... Here we go again!

 

I say this in every GB I've taken part in, but this time it's really coming home how steep my learning curve is!

 

More later.

 

Tony.

[Heather Kay]

The important thing to remember, at least for me, is the French attitude to camouflaging planes was much more relaxed than the British. Where the RAF had two colours, painted in one of two patterns which were reflections of each other, the French provided a set of colours and essentially left it to the artistic whims of the workers painting the plane at the time!

 

There is no strict pattern to follow, so I gave up trying to find one. All I’ve done with my builds so far is follow the guides provided in the kits. If I had decided to do my own thing, barely anyone would have been able to tell me I was wrong!

[jean]

Hi Tony,

 

the French camo colors' curse...

The chocolate in the Humbrol Authentics range is rather good. I finished my last tin of it a few months ago, after decades of use.

the Humbrol 91 is the color I use for the Schwartzgrun on 2 WW Luftwaffe aircraft. Have Humbrol changed their color numbering again?

The green in the camo, or khaki as the French call it, is perfect with Humbrol 159 (assuming they haven't changed every color!)

The dark blue grey Humbrol 96 is a tad too blue, but in the camouflage it integrates well with the other colors. I like it.

 

The above is just what I think, when it comes to French 2WW camo.

I hope it helps.

 

Have fun!

JR

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by jean

[TonyW]

There's good information coming out now. It's going to help for sure.

 

I see Dave is asking about interior colours over in the references thread. That's another area I need schooling on!

 

Tony.

[jean]

Humbrol 104, bleu de nuit, was the standard interior color in French Air Force aircraft of the time

I have no reason to see why it would be different in the Amiot. But again, exceptions seem to be the norm!

Cheers.

 

JR

[AdrianMF]

+1 for Humbrol 104 as an interior colour!

 

There my certainty ends...

Regards,

Adrian

[TonyOD]

I’ve seen something called “chamois” mentioned somewhere 😁

[TonyW]

8 hours ago, TonyOD said:

I’ve seen something called “chamois” mentioned somewhere 😁

Two votes for H104, an oxford blue, followed by one for chamois, a light tan. It's a good job nobody's mentioning apple green... Oh, wait a minute.

 

Black windows, solid model style have a certain appeal that is growing.

[RidgeRunner]

1 hour ago, TonyW said:

tan. It's a good job nobody's mentioning apple green...

So are we saying that green is wrong? I am purely going on the Heller instructions for my LeO. Based on those I was planning. To use Humbrol 80. ;{

[TonyOD]

Might not be such an issue but given with all that see-through stuff the interior will be veeeeery visible!

[TonyW]

47 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

So are we saying that green is wrong? I am purely going on the Heller instructions for my LeO. Based on those I was planning. To use Humbrol 80. ;{

No idea. 

we need a French equivalent of Dana Bell. He would probably go for blue.

[Wez]

12 hours ago, jean said:

Humbrol 104, bleu de nuit, was the standard interior color in French Air Force aircraft of the time

I have no reason to see why it would be different in the Amiot. But again, exceptions seem to be the norm!

Cheers.

 

JR

Were the French that hard and fast at that time?  Certainly the Dewoitine 500/501/510 seemed to have a silver interior but the 520 was bleu de nuit... so it does seem a bit of a lottery.  Were there different specs for bombers vs fighters or were the manufacturers able to come up with their own spec's.

11 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

+1 for Humbrol 104 as an interior colour!

 

There my certainty ends...

Regards,

Adrian

It's a good match for it

2 hours ago, TonyW said:

Two votes for H104, an oxford blue, followed by one for chamois, a light tan. It's a good job nobody's mentioning apple green... Oh, wait a minute.

 

Black windows, solid model style have a certain appeal that is growing.

+3, I've seen chamois used on the interior surface of some French aircraft (the Potez I think), it's certainly an interior colour for non-cockpit areas on many post-war French aircraft.

55 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

So are we saying that green is wrong? I am purely going on the Heller instructions for my LeO. Based on those I was planning. To use Humbrol 80. ;{

Not necessarily...

6 minutes ago, TonyW said:

No idea. 

we need a French equivalent of Dana Bell. He would probably go for blue.

Patrice @TEMPESTMK5, is this something you could ask on the French forums?  It's causing a lot of consternation here as you can see.  Jean has provided a useful pointer but a wider consensus would be helpful.

 

[TEMPESTMK5]

Hello Wez
As I am not an expert in the matter I will ask the question on the forum and I will give you the answers I hope very soon ..

 

Best regards

Patrice

 

[jean]

Hi all,

 

here is a photo of the 143 cockpit that shows it is painted in a rather dark color.

In my book, this matches the bleu de nuit, i.e Humbrol 104.

 

But this is only my opinion!

Have fun, whichever color you choose!

 

JR