Hurricane kits

[Modelholic]

What's the best kit to use for a Mk.IV in 1/48?

I know of the Hasegawa kit but was wondering if there are alternatives (would an e.g. IIC or IID work with a little 'minor' surgery?)

TIA

Tom

[72modeler]

@Troy Smith would be the man to give you a definitive answer regarding 1/48 kits, but off the top of my head, you would need to consider the following, regardless of the kit chosen. Good luck- in my opinion, it's the most handsome of all the Hurri's!

 

Rotol 4-blade prop and spinner from a donor 1/48 Spitfire, or aftermarket

Scratchbuild a larger, armored radiator or find one on the aftermarket; I know they are available in 1/72, but I can't say for your chosen scale

Rescribe the upper and lower wings with the correct panel lines. (See some topic discussions we have had on this subject for photos/drawings)

Remove and fill the openings for the four Hispano cannon, case ejection slots, and blisters on the upper wing. Drill one .303 gunport in the leading edge of each wing and add the case ejector slot for them.

 

This should do for starters; I was hoping Arma Hobby was going to do one, but a proper job would require a new wing with the correct panel lines. They could have done the other bits on a separate sprue.

Mike

 

[Work In Progress]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Rotol 4-blade prop and spinner from a donor 1/48 Spitfire, or aftermarket

No, the Hurricane IV is a three-blade prop. same as a II.  

What you will need in the region of the nose is the Vokes filter, which comes with any tropical II kit, including the Monogram and Hobbycraft kits and at least some of the Hasegawa ones.

 

The Monogram kit comes with a IV armoured radiator housing as well as the standard II one.

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, Modelholic said:

What's the best kit to use for a Mk.IV in 1/48?

If you don't need it 'now' I'd wait for the upcoming Arma Hobby 1/48th IIC.

6 hours ago, Modelholic said:

I know of the Hasegawa kit

the Hase Mk.IV is their IIC kit with a few resin bits, main one is the radiator

6 hours ago, Modelholic said:

but was wondering if there are alternatives (would an e.g. IIC or IID work with a little 'minor' surgery?)

TIA

Tom

Yes,  infact there has never been a proper IID or IV kit in 1/48th,  both Hobbycraft and Hasegawa took a IIc and added bits, but left the IIc wing panels.

All hase kits IIC kits come with the leading edge blanking plates with the 0.303 sighting gun aperture, see images below

The IV wing is based on in the c wing anyway, with a few small modifications.

The IV also added some armour, most was hidden,  but there is some visible externally around the cockpit

 

 

see here, and follow links 

 

this is the wing underside

 

 

this is the upperwing

 

 

 

this shows some internal armour

 

this is a IID,  KX171, according to Air Britain, but shows the MK.IV details,  taken in Russia

added radiator armour, and cockpit armour, the trapezoid under the windscreen,  seems the windscreen bars got 'beefed up' as well.

 

the armour is an add on

 

the armour is in front of the radiator, and the side strips as shown in  other  photos are visible on the radiator bath.

 

There are more thread on Hurricane IV's on here,  (google Britmodeller Hurricane Mk.IV ) 

 

This should answer the initial basic question,  and the next one, which is how did the Mk.IV actually differ,  as this is not well documented in most/all Hurricane references.

 

Any other questions, ask away.

HTH

T

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Scratchbuild a larger, armored radiator

AFAIK the basic radiator is the same, just with side strips to help fit the armour bath.

4 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

What you will need in the region of the nose is the Vokes filter, which comes with any tropical II kit, including the Monogram and Hobbycraft kits and at least some of the Hasegawa ones.

Only for the one used in the Middle East, and Mediterranean, and Far East.

Plenty of Mk.IV's were used in the UK,  operationally in 1943-early 44 with 137, 164 and 184 sq's, and as rocket trainers with 186, 438 and 439 Sq before they converted to Typhoons, as well and in many other 2nd line duties, Met flights, bomber and AA affiliation units for example.  

 

A trop filter does hide the fact that no 1/48th kit actually get the Mk.II carb intake right though. 

 

4 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

The Monogram kit comes with a IV armoured radiator housing as well as the standard II one.

It does, but it's not accurate.  As the image above shows,  it's a wrap around bath added to the Mk.II radiator as far as I can from photos.  

 

The only really useful bits in the Monogram kit are the drop tanks, 40 mm guns and maybe the bomb carriers and rocket plates,   but it's been a while since I had a really good look.  

One odd detail on the Monogram kit which maybe of interest  @Work In Progress , the wing sweep is wrong for the standard Hurricane,  but does actually look about right for the prototype with less swept wing, which came up in one of the discussions here, so it may have a use after all....

 

HTH

[72modeler]

Don't know where my head was when I read the original post- it was the Mk IV not the Mk V that was the subject of the original poster! The old Mk 1a brain assembly ain't what it used to be! To salvage my already suspect reputation, consider the following for a Mk IV:

 

Rotol three blade wide chord prop and spinner

standard radiator/oil cooler fairing; the armor plate was in the form of a saddle that was strapped around the existing fairing, as Troy said. (Because of the uprated and boosted Merlin fitted to the Mk V, it did have a larger radiator matrix than the Mk IV)

Mk IV's were fitted with a 'universal'  wing, in that it could carry an asymmetrical loadout , with one 40mm, 4 HVAR's, or one external tank, in any combination. Burma-based Hurricane IV's could often be seen with one external tank and four HVAR's.

...and of course, I forgot about the Vokes tropical filter, which was fitted to both the IV and the V.

 

Sorry about the misinformation- I'm getting too old for this! 

Mike

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Rotol three blade wide chord prop

AFAIK, while there are different blades, (the bottom cuffs vary,  some naybe metal as well as the Jablo wood composite)  none of them were wider than others.

3 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

 

and spinner

of which there are two types of spinner...

 

the CM/1 and the ES/9.

The 1/48th Hasegawa spinner is most like a CM/1 BTW.

the Hobbycraft kit has one like a ES/9

6 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Mk IV's were fitted with a 'universal'  wing, in that it could carry an asymmetrical loadout , with one 40mm, 4 HVAR's, or one external tank, in any combination. Burma-based Hurricane IV's could often be seen with one external tank and four HVAR's.

the only asymmetric load out I have seen is on Mk.IV's flying in the Adriatic in late 44 and 45,  which need the range, of rocket rail and a drop tank.

see here

Never seen it in Burma. May have happened, just photos are rare.

 

when test a 40mm gun and  rockets was tested,  the gun recoil made the rockets fall off apparently.

 

the universal wing  was set up to take

40 mm guns

rockets

drop tanks

bomb carriers 

smoke dispensers

 

cheers

T

[Graham Boak]

I've seen it said on BM that the Mk.IVs never received the upgraded Merlins as they were saved for Mosquitos.  I have some doubts whether that is true, at least as far as Merlin mark number are concerned, but it may be that production received a lower priority because of the need for more Mosquito engines.  I don't know whether that is true or not - I do know that the Mk.IV in India would have been struggling with the standard Merlin XX. 

[Modelholic]

Thank You All,

I'm gonna bookmark this for future reference.

I was thinking of a UK based Hurri, Where any flying around D Day? (cos I like the idea of an invasion striped Hurricane!)

Tom

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Modelholic said:

I was thinking of a UK based Hurri, Where any flying around D Day? (cos I like the idea of an invasion striped Hurricane!)

Yes,  but not Mk.IVs that I know of (but 2nd line duties aircraft photos are fairly rare ) 

 

but there are IIc's

 

Hurricane Mk IIC LF380 FI-D of No 83 OTU on the ground at Peplow

 

see here for more

Mail being loaded into a Hurricane Mk IIC of No 1697 Air Despatch Letter Service Flight at B2 Bazenville Normandy

 

I think this is the same plane, 

"MW367 was a Hurricane IIc, coded B and carried the name "Jessie" in script just forward of the port windscreen"

 

probably the white Sea Hurricanes had D-Day stripes

HTH

[72modeler]

@Troy Smith

 

Just to set the record straight, I am NO Hurricane authority- certainly not even in the same zip code as you! That being said:

 

In my defense, I didn't state that the Mk IV's carried a 40mm cannon as one of the asymmetric loadouts, I just stated the combinations that could be carried- the only combination I have seen photos of in actual operations is the rocket/external tank combination,

 

Re the Rotol prop, what I meant, but didn't state very well, was that the Rotol prop had wider chord blades than the DH prop- I have the photos/drawings/text that you and others have posted here on spinner and prop types  saved; I should have referred to them instead of sticking my nose into areas in which I am not well-versed.

 

Re the rocket/external tank combination- I vaguely recall seeing photos of that combination on Burma-based Mk IV's, but having no interest at that time in modeling a MK IV at that time, I didn't save it...dumb, dumb, dumb! I have seen a  photo of an illustration that purported to show a No. 42 Squadron Mk IV, coded AW-H, with the rocket/external tank loadout, but no serial was visible, and I have no idea if the illustration was based on an actual photo or not.

 

I apologize for the  misinformation and confusion I might have caused by both of my posts. Should have just tagged you and sat back! Cheers!

Mike 

[Troy Smith]

59 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Mike 

no need to apologise,  I know you were adding what you know,  I was just tidying up/adding detail to your comments, it's a learning process, i keep finding out new bits of information,  and adding them in.   I also go into 'information mode' which may come across as rude, just I'm lost in concentration on being clear and concise if possible... but may come over as abrupt on occasion, which is not intended.

 

59 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I have seen a  photo of an illustration that purported to show a No. 42 Squadron Mk IV, coded AW-H, with the rocket/external tank loadout, but no serial was visible, and I have no idea if the illustration was based on an actual photo or not.

 

there are a few Burma Mk.IV photos,  in one of the linked threads.  The illustration maybe in one of the Squadron Signal books colour plates?

 

The reason I doubted this is the only time I know this combinations was used was in  the Adriatic,  and that was because they needed the range. 

Burma photos show bomb carriers and rockets fitted.  

just found this,  which is interesting, and before I joined.  Worth a read to see what was 'known' here in 2009 on Hurricane detail.  

  

On 28/11/2009 at 23:17, Nick Millman said:

On the IID the starboard landing lamp was blanked off but on the Mk IV "low attack" wing the landing lamps were fitted with detachable panels which I presume means that they could be fitted with two, one or none. I have a photo of a 20 Sqn RP carrier with the port lamp visible but no starboard lamp, another in flight with no lamps visible and a 20 Sqn IID with the port lamp blanked off and no sign of a starboard lamp.

Not sure how common the asymetric load was in SEAC. I know it was common in Italy/Yugoslavia but I've not yet come across it for Burma. 20 Sqn note they could not use the wing .303 because the rocket blast plates obstructed the cartridge ejection slots but the guns were still fully loaded because there were limited storage facilities at base. RP's were in short supply at one point and they were reduced to carrying 4 x 25lb RPs. More commonly used were 8 x 60lb RP's. In March 1945 20 Sqn ordinance expenditure during 566 sortes was as follows:-

7,093 40mm

106,814 .303

912 RP 60lb

6 RP 25lb

 

 

this from @KevinK whose dad flew Spitfires, 

  

On 11/03/2014 at 02:46, KevinK said:

The reason for the asymmetrical weapons load on 6 Sqn was fairly straightforward - they needed the extra fuel to get to the target and the rockets to attack it. This is not the trivial point it might seem, as the Hurricanes were the only RAF aircraft in the theatre - other than the Beaufighter - cleared to carry rockets, but didn't have the range on internal fuel to make the Adriatic crossing and penetrate far into Yugoslavia. Once Vis was secured, it was used first as a forward refuelling base and later as a base but the extra fuel was still needed for deeper penetration missions. The rocket units were indeed handed, so either port or stbd set could be fitted, as seen in the photos.

On the issue of clearance to carry rockets - The Spitfire hadn't had A&AEE clearance at that time, but when one of the Wing's Spitfire squadrons sent a detatchment to Greece at the time of the uprising, the Sqn Engineering Officer made a local mod to fit rockets which were used successfully, but the mod was not approved and removed on the Sqn's return to Italy.

Kevin

 

I have been meaning, for years, to go an see what is in the archives at  Hendon and the IWM,  instead of what's available online,  I was planning on a treat in late March.... and then look what happened...

 

cheers

T

[politicni komisar]

 

The best and achievable choice in 1/48 scale is HASEGAWA mk.IIb or IID 

 

With less wing conversion and resin  acesories I made years ago.

 

I still have one extra.

 

 

And RAF RP missiles from Aires or any other manufacturer.

 

P.k

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, politicni komisar said:

The best and achievable choice in 1/48 scale is HASEGAWA mk.IIb or IID 

IIb?  

I presume this is a typo, and you mean IIc, 

The Hase IId kit, apart from being one of the rare editions, is their IIc with 40mm guns.

Hasegawa tooled up 2 wings, a B wing, and a C wing, and used one of other of these in all their boxings.

 

Anyway,  as i said earlier, the best choice will be the forthcoming Arma Hobby kit,  as it will be a scale up of the 72nd kits, which are the best Hurricane kits available.

The Hasegawa Hurricane can be made into an very accurate model, but it's a lot of work!

[politicni komisar]

Yeah it's really easier to rework IIC wings.

 

But if you're not in a hurry, it's worth the wait. Arma hobby future

1/48 kit.

 

P.k