Hamden Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Having finished my Tamiya Chieftain it has been sugested that my next project should be the Italeri M32 which is in the stash. If anyone knows of anything I need to be aware of please shout out. Box and sprue pictures as soon as I liberate said kit from the loft insulation. Thanks for looking in - work starts soon Roger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3talpig Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Hamden said: Having finished my Tamiya Chieftain it has been sugested that my next project should be the Italeri M32 which is in the stash. If anyone knows of anything I need to be aware of please shout out. Box and sprue pictures as soon as I liberate said kit from the loft insulation. Thanks for looking in - work starts soon Roger Only thing that immediately springs to mind Roger is the usual tracks from Italeri ...thick and cumbersome, you might want to get some aftermarket jobbies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The tracks and wonky suspension are the least of your troubles here. It's a completely fictitious kit!!!!! There was perhaps only 1 M32B1 built on the large hatch hull as depicted by Italeri, who mistakently borrowed it from their M4A1(76) kit without research or thinking. There were a small number of M32B2 built on large hatch M4A2 hulls for USMC, but the remainder of M32, M32B1 and M32B3 were built on used small-hatch hulls (with a few on new build hulls). Every single small hatch M4A3 built was converted to an M32B3. So, to make something of the Italeri M32B1 you have 2 choices. Cross-kit it with something else or, by the time you've splashed out on a second kit, throw it away and buy the infinitely superior and correct Tasca kit. The most basic kitbash would be with a Dragon or Tasca/Asuka/Eduard small hatch M4A1 to make a correct M32B1. The M32B1 was by far the most common type of M32 with over 1,300 built. You could potentially make an M32 using the Dragon Normandy M4 or IC Firefly. However, there is no definitive evidence that any M32 were actually built: the production order with FMW was for a mixed bag of 400 M32 or M32B1, but it seems that only M32B1 were actually built. You could cross it with an Academy, Asuka or Dragon M4A2 to make a USMC PTO version but there were only 46 of those - 12 with the large hatch hull and the remainder with Fisher welded-hood small hatch hulls. An M32B3 is problematic as no-one kits a small-hatch M4A3, but it was the second most common M32 variant with 298 built. While the M32B4 never officially existed with no records of any being built and the designation being cancelled, there is a photo on the web of an M32B4 in post-war Greek service which no-one can adequately explain. Greece received 4 M32s from the UK with their Centaurs. Shapeways have an M32 bracket set for a welded hull. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaastav Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 What @Das Abteilung said... (I know nothing, but this is a trick to make it look like I know something) Interesting choice. 1 seat please (are dogs counted) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper dog Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 However, to throw the cat at the pigeons, why not just build it oob as God and italeri intended.... If that was built, painted and finished nicely I certainly wouldn't be worried about correct hatches etc. Tbh, unless you know you're stuff I'll bet few others would either.... Some kits are just there to be built and enjoyed, well built at least!😉 Go on Roger, build it, build it, build it..... (Hope I haven't trodden on any toes, apologies if so). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Jasper dog said: Some kits are just there to be built and enjoyed, well built at least! 8 hours ago, Jasper dog said: build it, build it, build it..... I have read the comments above and almost immediately came to the same conclusion as Darryl @Jasper dog how ever having spent a lot of time looking at period pictures and trying to find some good clear preferably scale drawings of the M32B I am going to look at changing the hatches to reprosent the small hatch fitment. The rest will be built out of the box as Italeri intended, if it's not practable to reduce the hatches then that to will be out of the box, I still have a little more research to do before starting the build but here are the box top and sprue pictures Thanks to all for the comments and encouragment final decision and start soon 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper dog Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Just between you and me Roger...... I had to look up what M32 B1 was, just don't tell anyone!🤫😉 The only Italeri AFV I've done was a Panther ausf G and it was ok, bit basic but essentially a decent kit, its not Tamiya but it wasn't Tamiya money. Good luck with it and with the hatch correction. Cheers Darryl 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3talpig Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Roger thought of you as i read this...copied from Sherman minutia While it is possible that some of the 91 new production PSC M4A1s converted to M32B1s could have had large hatches, we have yet to see any evidence supporting this. In 2008, a set of “GI photographs” surfaced showing a large hatch M32B1 in Germany shortly before or after VE Day. Tactical markings show that the vehicle was with Service Company of the 20th Tank Battalion, 20th Armored Division. A portion of the Registration Number (1) beginning with 40155 can be seen in one of the photos, which is outside the range allocated to the vehicles converted from the 91 new M4A1s (40149307 to 40149397) confirming that this retriever was instead one of the 384 M32B1s converted by PSC from used M4A1s. This retriever can be seen with the spare drive sprockets mounted on the hull side as per the standard stowage configuration (2), the door type turret port (3), frame type tool fitting on the fenders (4) and the adaptor platforms for the mortar feet (5), all later style fittings introduced after the retrievers built on the 91 new PSC M4A1s had been completed. Note that the hull does have thickened sides indicating it was manufactured with the cast in hull armor (6). Large hatch M4A1(75)s were pretty rare. Our research suggests that about 100 of the 175 M4A1(75)s produced by PSC in December, 1943 had them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Thank you so much @M3talpig that makes for an out of box build much more likely now that there is photographic evidence of the big hatch hulls being used for M32B1 conversions. Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Like I said, maybe only 1 built like that........................... Certainly this is the only photo anyone has ever turned up of a large hatch M32B1. None seem to have turned up post-war anywhere either, not even in Israel. There were only 46 M32B2s and there are a lot more pictures of those, all 3 sub-types. Yes there could potentially have been up to 91 like this but the production records don't discriminate between large and small hatch and the existence of any more than the 1 pictured remains entirely conjectural. M4A1 75mm large-hatch tanks were a relatively rare transitional model. 200 or so 'unallocated' ones in depot were certainly converted to DDs and were apparently the only spare Shermans available. The timing is about right. So it is plausible but remains unproven that others were taken for the M32 programme when supplies of suitable used tanks ran out just short of the total needed. But even at 91 out of 1,300-odd they would be rare. It is also plausible but also unproven that the mystery M32B4 was somehow scooped up in this shortage but never recorded as such, maybe mistaken by someone for an M4 or M4A3 but converted anyway. We will never know. It seems that it came to the UK and then on to Greece, but there are no records of that either. Bronco do the T49 type tracks seen here at a more reasonable price than the metal options. Just changing the hatches around would not be an option to make the small hatch version anyway. The entire glacis is different in plan and profile between large hatch and small hatch types. You would need a new upper hull. As I'm sure you all know, 'large hatch' and 'small hatch' are just shorthand for 1st and 2nd generation Shermans using the most obvious visual clue. But it isn't just about the hatches. There were many other differences and almost all 2nd generation Shermans were 76 or 105mm with relatively few 75mms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3talpig Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 On 23/09/2020 at 15:12, Das Abteilung said: It's a completely fictitious kit!!!!! Kinda makes this comment redundant though........ and being for the most part a glass half full kinda guy i would say that perhaps Italeri had info or pics that you don't ...further to that i would say that if there was only one which honestly i find very hard to believe it would make this all the more compelling as a subject to model. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) Fair one, and I retract the statement with apologies. Type in haste before brain is fully engaged,............! It did read a bit like a Sun headline on reflection. I actually contradicted myself anyway because I also said a couple of lines later that there was perhaps only 1 known to be built like that. Edited September 27, 2020 by Das Abteilung addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Morning Roger. If you are going to go ahead and build this particular vehicle, and you are looking for T-49 tracks, then these will fit the bill nicely. They are easy to assemble if you make up a simple jig. http://shermantracks.com/catalog/t49.html John. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper dog Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Bullbasket said: Morning Roger. If you are going to go ahead and build this particular vehicle, and you are looking for T-49 tracks, then these will fit the bill nicely. They are easy to assemble if you make up a simple jig. http://shermantracks.com/catalog/t49.html John. Does John @Bullbasket get commission from Panda , he's a big fan.... It's a cop out Roger I know but AFV club do replacement rubber band tracks (T49s) available from Amazon £12-£13. Not as good perhaps as Individual links but, I used some last year on a Firefly and worked fine. Bit tight but stretched ok, very tempted if all goes belly up with the Meng ones at present! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 Hi Darryl @Jasper dog I've used AFV rubber bands on both my M548 and M113 and they are very well detailed for band type tracks. Not sure they do the T49 pattern ones but having said that I've not looked for any yet. Thanks for the idea though. Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 Shock horror plastic has been fetteld Having spent many hours looking at the interweb trying to decide which direction to go with this, first thought was to see if it was possable to convert this to the small hatch configuration but thanks to @M3talpig finding the picture shown in post No8 above of a M32B1 with a large hatch configuration so this will be built OOB, I'm not sure yet what I'm going to do about the tracks I may decide to just use the kit ones or may look for the T49's as shown in the picture above. Thanks for all the comments and taking the time to look in progress will hopefully speed up now! Stay safe Roger 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3talpig Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Woohoo work has started........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted September 28, 2020 Author Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, M3talpig said: Woohoo work has started........ Yes thanks to you finding that picture! Stay safe Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbow Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Oh !! I like this !! A little drama, a little plastic, and a little, "Woo Hoo !!" Emoji !! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper dog Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Longbow said: Oh !! I like this !! A little drama, a little plastic, and a little, "Woo Hoo !!" Emoji !! Bless him, some of us are so easily pleased... Good to see this underway Roger, must be half done by now.... Still a great choice of project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Thanks for all the comments and likes. As there is a lot of Sherman builds going on at the present and the M32 is a Sherman derivative I'm not going to bore you with a detailed suspension build just going to show the suspension units fitted to the lower hull together with drive sprockets and idlers. I have also added the air cleaners, exhaust pipes, rear towing plate and the wire replacement engine door handle on the back plate. So far the fit has been exemplary, long may it continue! Thanks for stopping by, stay safe Roger 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Good to see this started Roger, making great progress so far mate, I think got some Tamiya Sherman tracks-solid rubber pads, I’m not up to speed on the type but you can have them if you want, pop me a pm with your address and I’ll get them in the post 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbow Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Nice start, Roger !! There does seem to be a lot of Sherman builds lately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dads203 said: Good to see this started Roger, making great progress so far mate, I think got some Tamiya Sherman tracks-solid rubber pads, I’m not up to speed on the type but you can have them if you want, pop me a pm with your address and I’ll get them in the post Thanks for the like and comment Dan as well as the offer of tracks unfortunately the M32 has the metal T49 tracks as shown in the picture in post #8, so far the only picture of a M32 with the large hatches. Thanks again for the offer though. Stay safe Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Longbow said: There does seem to be a lot of Sherman builds lately. They're breeding! Good start Roger. John. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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