The Me-109E Tamiya and its desert camouflage

[Massimo Tessitori]

I am ready to start a build, hopefully brief and easy, of the Me-109 E4/7 of Tamiya, 1/48. 

I've some doubts:

The ailerons are provided as separate parts, B 15 and B 16. On their upper face, there is a small step that remains well visible if they are mounted in lowered position. Was this step real on Me-109s, or it is only due to fit the thickness of the plastic of the wing and should be deleted with the flaps lowered?

The slats can be mounted in open position. Is this likely on the ground? Is this related to the position of the flaps?

 

A doubt on the painting: I am thinking to choose plane 8 od 2/jg27 flown by fw. Franz Elles.

A color, or colorized photo of the plane is at pag. 60 of 'Real colors of ww2' of AK; 

the same photo is on the web 

 

 

 

or 

https://www.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F109lair.hobbyvista.com%2Farticles%2Fcolor%2F2.jg27_elles.1.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2F109lair.hobbyvista.com%2Farticles%2Fcolor%2Fcolor_med.htm&tbnid=DlegBrmt9dTjKM&vet=12ahUKEwjKkL6S0vrrAhVVgKQKHTDACYIQMygBegUIARCWAQ..i&docid=UjS7FBgiMZrBmM&w=950&h=478&q=franz elles luftwaffe&ved=2ahUKEwjKkL6S0vrrAhVVgKQKHTDACYIQMygBegUIARCWAQ

 

or a bw version at

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Me_109E_JG_27_in_flight_1941.jpg

 

 

Similar planes numbered 3 and 6 are well represented in photos. 

 

Now, I read on the AK book, pag.60, that the plane should have lower and sides surfaces in RLM 78 blue, version of 1941, and upper surfaces in RLM 79 sandgelb of 1941 (both colors are different from the 1942 version with the same RLM number).

The page has printed chips of these colors, that fit well with those visible at 

 

Now, the problem is that the light blue 78 of 1941 appears much darker than the sandgelb 79, but the photos show not any darkness contrast between the upper and lower surface of the plane (apart for the green blotches of course). 

 

Is the contrast of the photo unreliable, or the sides of the plane are really painted with a lighter shade, as RLM 65 or 76?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Massimo Tessitori

[Werdna]

I suspect there is insufficient 'tonal' difference between RLM 78 and 79 (or indeed similar colours/shades) to provide a significant demarcation/contrast in black & white images, especially in bright sunlight or 'well exposed' images.   

[Graham Boak]

I suggest that there are a large number of photos of these early 109s which show considerable difference between the two colours, but it is very common, especially in b&w photos but sometimes in colour ones too, for the blue to appear considerably lighter than it really was.  However it if really upsets you then tone down the blue.

[dogsbody]

My 2 cents:

 

Below the red line: RLM 78 Hellblau

Above the red line: RLM 79 Sandgelb

The mottle: RLM Olivgrün

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Vlad]

2 hours ago, Massimo Tessitori said:

The slats can be mounted in open position. Is this likely on the ground? Is this related to the position of the flaps?

 

The slats on the 109 are not connected to the flaps in any way. They are spring loaded to come out in certain airflow conditions, then go back in when not needed. They tend to spring out naturally on landing but can be manually pushed back in by the ground crew, then they stay closed. In theory you can have any combination of slats, both in, both out, or one each. But in practice they would be pushed shut to prevent dirt getting into the mechanism, especially in the desert with all that sand. Many period pictures of Bf 109s parked show them closed, very few show them open.

 

The flaps also don't behave like western types, that people expect to drop when the plane is not running. They are chain linked to a wheel in the cockpit and can be moved without power or hydraulics, so can be in any position at any time. Again, they seem to mostly be up on parked aircraft unless it just landed.

 

So a bit boring from a modelling point of view. But nobody would blame you for showing off the aircraft with all the surfaces lowered/opened instead, and of course it was possible that it could be in that state at some time.

 

Another small detail in this area: both ailerons actually drop very slightly when the flaps are lowered. It's a detail no kit and very few builders bother with, I'm just raising it "for information".

Edited September 21, 2020 by Vlad

[Work In Progress]

The slats are free-floating and do whatever they want to do, without reference to the flaps or each other. They are likely to be open at the end of the landing and normally stay open if you are taxiing on a smooth surface. It is common practice to gently slide them back flush with the wing by hand if you are leaving the aircraft unattended,

 

[JackG]

One has to be mindful when studying period photos.  Some of the coloured ones could have been hand coloured from back then,  usually for the German 'Signal' magazine.   The b/w version of the opening photo (linked to wiki) is no doubt over exposed.  Yes, the fuselage appears near white, but the wings are also bleached out, particularly towards the trailing edges.    

 

Researcher Kiroff was consulted for the German section of the AK Real Colors aircraft book.  How faithful it is I cannot say, but keep in mind that AK does 'scale' their paints to a lighter shade, so this might be reflected in the paint samples of their book.

 

regards,

Jack

[Crimea River]

There should be no step in the flap. It's there so that it will fit flush in the closed position but would not be visible with the flaps deployed.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

About the flaps, I've found a nice walkaround here: https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/65648-109e-flap-question/&tab=comments#comment-859356

https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/messerschmitt-bf-109e/?afg234_page_id=4

 

Now about the interior colors: Tamiya instruction sheet suggests as a base color for inside the landing gear and the sides of the canopy a mix of XF-22 (RLM grey) and XF-49 (kaki) in equal parts. Shouldn't XP-22 be their official match for Grau 02? Has this to be intended as a self-criticism to their own XF-22 accuracy?

I see that only two parts, the floor of the cockpit and the instrument panel, are intended to be painted with XF-63, a panzer grey that can match the RLM-66. Is this accurate? I thought that it should have been the main color for the cockpit. 

 

[JackG]

Research seems to indicate there was some variation in RLM 02 (see Nick Millman's samples here).  Can only guess Tamiya is just trying to keep up with the latest research,

 but not wanting to change their base formula - only they can explain why.

 

 

Concerning cockpit colour, generally 02 would be the main cockpit colour of the 109 up the earliest F-1 models:

 

When it comes to hobby paints, Panzer Grey (RAL 7021) and RLM 66 due tend to be  more similar than dissimilar.    Keep in mind, when instructions suggests a colour, it is not necessarily the exact required colour, but is the closest they have in their paint lineup.

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

[Seawinder]

I'm working on the same basic kit, but am doing it in Battle of Britain colors. I chose to model the flaps extended and the slats pushed in. There are plenty of photos of parked planes with the flaps down, and apparently the slats were often manually pushed in to keep dirt and debris out. IMHO Tamiya goofed both with the step on the flaps and with the second, rear recess in the center of each flap. They also molded very visible frame members, which do not appear in photographs I've seen. I sanded them out and filed/sanded the step into a smooth curve. I also filled the rear recesses.

[janneman36]

From everything I have seen  RLM 02 should be the color but there are exceptions to the rule as I have seen in the wingleader photo archive number 2 about BF109 units during the BoB period..

As for example this crashlanded Bf 109 E-1 at LeHavre-Octeville 24/8/1940

It even looks like the seat being a lighter color like RLM02 and the backplate in some sort of dark color being RLM70 but most probably RLM66
 

 

This is the von Werra E-4 and this seems to have RLM02 to my eye 😉

 

cheers, Jan

 

 

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you all for the answers. 

About the inside color, I've tried to see on photos of plane 8, unfortunately both existing photos have the sun from behind the plane; a photo of similar plane 6 of the same unit suggests that there could really be light parts in the cockpit sides. I think I'll follow the instructions of Tamiya, using the grau 02 of Italeri.

 

Quote

 IMHO Tamiya goofed both with the step on the flaps and with the second, rear recess in the center of each flap. They also molded very visible frame members, which do not appear in photographs I've seen. I sanded them out and filed/sanded the step into a smooth curve. I also filled the rear recesses.

I agree, I'm filling both that opening and the step. Besides I think to fill the step on the face below, behind the cooler outlet, thinning the thickness of a part of the cover (pieces b23-24) because of the interference of the flaps. 

The recess on the lower part, probably for an actuating rod, should be more extended backwards on the top of the flap than on its lower surface.

 

(from https://www.net-maquettes.com/pictures/messerschmitt-bf-109e/?afg234_page_id=4)

I agree about the excessive evidence of the struts of flaps, ailerons and other control surfaces, the fabric should appear smoother.

The pins made from Tamiya aren't realistic, both as size and position. With the opened flap, a small cut appears on the back in a much inner position than the pin of the kit; probably it is for an hinge.

I am wondering if ignoring this or redo metallic pins and small cuts in the right position, my fear is that the positioning could suffer as precision and resistance.

 

 

[nicholas mayhew]

I went with RLM02 cockpit on my '8' I did earlier this year, but I struggled for original colour pics of JG27 proving / disproving RLM02 so just took an educated guess

 

i attempted to copy the mottling from the pictures but even in 1/32 I found it very hard 

 

best of luck with your build - here's mine near the end (note I still need to remove some masking tape - oops!)

 

[Crimea River]

I use this formula for RLM-02 using Tamiya paints: XF22:1 + XF49:1 + XF2:2

 

[Massimo Tessitori]

Looks very well made.  I wonder what is the thing visible on the right side inside the cockpit, it is there on the Tamiya kit too. The oxygen system?

[Super Aereo]

8 hours ago, Massimo Tessitori said:

Looks very well made.  I wonder what is the thing visible on the right side inside the cockpit, it is there on the Tamiya kit too. The oxygen system?

 

Hi Massimo, 

 

It is the Dräger demand-type oxygen regulator.

[Crimea River]

Yes, oxygen regulator. The basket is bare aluminum. Note this is from a later 109 I believe so ignore the RLM66:

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Crimea River

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you, this detail is very visible and needs some care.

I've compared the XF-22 Tamiya and the Grau 02 of Italeri, the latter is more brownish than the Tamiya and probably doesn't need corrections. 

[Jochen Barett]

On 22/09/2020 at 17:05, JackG said:

Research seems to indicate there was some variation in RLM 02 (see Nick Millman's samples here).  Can only guess Tamiya is just trying to keep up with the latest research,

 but not wanting to change their base formula - only they can explain why.

---

"When some people enthuse about the paint colour varying - and it did to the extent that the Luftwaffe told their personnel not to worry about it - they can often infer that paint colour standards are useless for modelling purposes. This is to misunderstand the purpose and value of the standards. Rather than pinpointing how each and every aircraft might have been painted they provide a benchmark for the intended average colour to be visualised, which in the absence of documented and accessible samples of extant paint, might otherwise be in a vacuum."

 

My conclusion: It is a good idea to modify my (basic and totally 100000000% correct) RLM 02 from plane to plane a tiny bit so they don't look like toy planes all painted in one batch. And it might be a good idea to worry a little less - not too much, just a little.

[Troy Smith]

On 21/09/2020 at 22:53, Vlad said:

Another small detail in this area: both ailerons actually drop very slightly when the flaps are lowered. It's a detail no kit and very few builders bother with, I'm just raising it "for information".

The ailerons droop slightly when both flaps are fully lowered.

The 1/48th Airfix  109E mentions this detail, with angles shown for the fully dropped flaps and ailerons.

HTH

[Troy Smith]

On 21/09/2020 at 20:30, Massimo Tessitori said:

or the sides of the plane are really painted with a lighter shade, as RLM 65 or 76?

Hi Massimo

re the main blue, note the square light background to the swastika, this is 65 or 76, as the swastika was masked off before being repainted.  Clearer on other prints of the image, this oine looks quite washed out too me.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Quote

My conclusion: It is a good idea to modify my (basic and totally 100000000% correct) RLM 02 from plane to plane a tiny bit so they don't look like toy planes all painted in one batch. And it might be a good idea to worry a little less - not too much, just a little.

I agree.  However, on models this variability comes out even unintentionally when one changes the brand of his paints or remakes a new mix, or buys a new can from another batch, and sometimes even from the same can according to casual factors. 

 

Quote

 

The ailerons droop slightly when both flaps are fully lowered.

The 1/48th Airfix  109E mentions this detail, with angles shown for the fully dropped flaps and ailerons.

HTH

 

Hi Troy,

how much have them to drop? Only with fully down flaps?

Quote

re the main blue, note the square light background to the swastika, this is 65 or 76, as the swastika was masked off before being repainted. 

I see. What is more likely between 65 and 76?  The photo should be of the second half of 1941. 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

The light blue should be the original desert light blue 78.

[Massimo Tessitori]

I mean, the light color visible between the braces of the swastika, presumably the blue of the original European livery. I suppose that the Afrikan livery wasn't made in factory. 

 

Another thing: the instructions sheet of Tamiya says to paint the prop blades with semigloss black. I thought that German planes had prop blades painted in Schwarzgrun 70.  What do you think of this? What is more likely?