Dornier Flying Pencil - Do 17Z-2***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

As my Stuka did not take long, I thought I would try a 7th and final build for this GB (assuming you count the trio of Emils as 3 not 1). I was considering my Italeri He-111 but it is an H-6 version which I believe did not enter service until 1941. Ok, I could probably convert it and I have decs for an H-2, but I decided to go with this instead.

AFAIK this is the old Frog kit which I built shortly after it was released in 1971, a year ahead of the Airfix inline engined E/F version. It was released again by Revell from about 1977 onwards, but for some reason they also reboxed it as Matchbox for this 1992 version! I know it will not be anything like as detailed as the 2014 Airfix offering, though that is also said to have some accuracy issues but my old one did not look too bad. I will do a bit of work in the cockpit, probably roof in the wheel bays, and have a think about replacing some or all of the guns, but otherwise it should be a fairly quick OOB build as I am busy on another GB as well and the Heller Classic is getting ever closer! I was going to use the Xtradecal sheet for the markings but theirs in a Z-1 so I will have to think about that. The kit markings are for KG 2 in 1941 and KG3 in "1941/42" so there could be a bit of "mix and match" and perhaps some DIY decs as well.

 

First bit of the history now.

As you will probably know, after Hitler came to power the German aircraft industry was encouraged to start producing military aircraft again – discretely! Bombers were to be described as transports so the He 111 was built in 2 parallel versions, but the Do-17 was actually genuinely designed as a transport, or so we are led to believe, being a response to a Lufthansa request for a high speed mailplane carrying 6 passengers. Well, the Dornier response was certainly fast, and the passengers could be accommodated in two small compartments, one behind the cockpit for 2 persons, and another for 4 behind the wing, but as Green says “Unfortunately, the passengers virtually to perform acrobatics to enter these diminutive compartments” so although the first of 3 prototypes first flew in the autumn of 1934, Lufthansa turned them down, and they were left sitting in a hangar.

 

However, fate took a hand, or so the story goes, and a former Dornier employee Flugkapitän Untucht, who was working as a senior pilot for Lufthansa and was their liaison with the RLM, happened to see them when paying a visit. He suggested that with some more keel area for stability the design could be turned into an effective fast bomber, and the Luftwaffe agreed. The V4 prototype emerged with twin fins and rudders instead of the original single central fin, provision for a radio operator's compartment and bomb bay and various portholes blanked off, and was the progenitor of a family of bombers with a variety of engines, BMW inlines initially, then Hispano Suiza, and then BMW again in the production E bomber and F recce planes. The follow upto the F series were intended to have Daimler Benz engines but these were needed for fighters so instead the M had BMW-Bramo Fafnir 323 A-1 radials but the P had slight less powerful BMW 132N radials. These last two types were still in use at the start of WWII in relatively small numbers, principally with recce units. The M had a top speed of 255 mph at 13000ft and could carry a bomb load of 2200lb internally with a “tactical radius” of 310 miles according to Green and had an armament of 3x7.9mm MG 15.

 

More as and when I start the build. All details from Warplanes of the Third Reich by William Green in around 1970.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Here's a thought,

 

Been doing a bit of research and I think I will do it as Do-17Z-2 Werke Nummern 1160, "Anton" of 7./KG 3 code 5K+AR shot down on August 26th 1940 by Defiants of 264 Squadron - it is the one recovered from the Goodwin Sands and under restoration - that is one way of being absolutely certain it is eligible for this GB as pictures of Do-17 are a bit iffy as they either don't have dates or could be Z-1 or even Z-3!

 

Pete

Edited September 22, 2020 by PeterB

[Greg Law]

Well done Pete. I could have sworn l built this one back in the eighties, but maybe it was another one and I just had the kit.

Once I'm done with the Heinkel and Ju 88A-1 I will be doing the Do 17z myself.

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

Just after I closed up the fuselage of my Ju 88A-1 a couple of weeks or so back, I learned that the interior should have been RLM 66 not 02. I am digging around trying to find interior pics of the Do 17Z but if anybody has any info I would welcome it ASAP!

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Not the clearest of pic, but I have made a start,

I have assembled the kit floor, seats and column - actually that is off my old kit as the new one broke as I removed it from the sprue. I have also put in a rear bulkhead, and will extend the floor slightly. Then I will add some "radios" at the rear, and maybe something on the fuselage sides if there is room - it will be tight! Given its age the detail is actually quite good. The pilot has a "bucket" saet but the other 3 have what appears to be a "basketweave" pattern moulded on the bottom of the seat and I have seen at least one pic showing the open back - no armour plate here yet I think!

 

Pete

Edited September 23, 2020 by PeterB

[Stew Dapple]

Hi Pete,

 

I'd go with RLM02 for the interior with RLM66 for the IP and any radio boxes you might add - actually not just I would, when I built my Airfix pair I did  Aside from that being the general consensus of opinion, Airfix recommend it in their kit instructions and given that they had access to the remnants of the real 5K+AR prior to making their own kit I took it that they would have been looking at remaining paint colour as well as structure. Some photos exist on the internets too, most are ambiguous (RLM02 or RLM66 lit up by flash photography?) there are several that are pretty clearly not 66.

 

I think the lightweight seats folded up to the side of the cockpit when the observer and ventral gunner got into their combat positions but I can't remember if I read that somewhere or made that assumption based on their appearance  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[PeterB]

Nothing like the real thing but the cockpit looks a bit busier now.

The seats are in, the floor extended, the cut-outs for the wings plated over, and the w/op has a few panels to play with as does the nav/bomb aimer, Meanwhile on the other side of the cockpit the pilot has the IP and a side panel.

So time to close up the fuselage. The ejector pin marks are exactly the same as in my original build and I removed 4 from the fuselage in the cockpit, but missed the ones on the floor, though in fairness they are nothing like as obvious as in the pics - oblique lighting and the curse of the macro lens!

 

History Part 2

The Do-17K was an export version for Yugoslavia, and both the L and R were prototypes only, and the next major production model was the Do-17Z which began to enter service in early 1939. As a result of experience in Spain, it was apparent that the layout of the crew section needed to be changed, along with improvements to the armament, and the new nose was first tried on the S version which was a high speed recce model powered by DB engines, 3 of which were built along with 12 similar Do-17U “pathfinders”. The new nose layout grouped the crew together as in the Ju-88 and replaced the gun poking through a trap door in the underside with a deepened and bulged underside rather than a “gondola”, with an extra crew member to man it. Initially powered with the same Bramo Fafnir engines as the M model, the Z-1 production model was considerably heavier and as a result underpowered, resulting in a reduction in bombload to 1100lb, but in the Z-2 model that this kit represents, Bramo 323P engines were introduced which had 2 two speed superchargers giving an extra 100hp per engine for takeoff, so the bombload went back to 2205lb, but at the cost of fuel so the “radius” went down to just 205 miles!. There was now an extra flexible MG15 in the nose but the defensive armament was still barely adequate and would be increased during the Battle of Britain. The Z-3 was a recce plane, the Z-4 was a trainer, and the Z-5 was given floatation gear for maritime work – a total of 500 Z-1 and Z-2 bombers and 22 Z-3 recce planes were produced according to Green, and of course the inline engined Do-215 was based on the Z model or perhaps the S/U versions with inline engines, but that is another story.

 

The first civil prototypes with their thinner fuselage and pointed nose were nicknamed "flying pencil" with some justification. The later versions, particularly the ones with the deeper nose probably should not be called that but the name persisted.

 

Pete

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Given its age this kit is not bad. Ok, there is a little flash on things like the undercarriage legs, and the ejector pin marks seem perhaps a litte bigger, but with good preperation and care when fitting it goes together pretty well, with minimal filler.

Next I will give it a wash, and when it is dry mask it up and prime it. I will leave the u/c and engine cowlings, props etc off for the moment. I am getting low on my favoured Mr Hobby RLM 70 and 71, and unfortunately e-paint are out of the RLM 70 at the moment, so I might paint this initially with the Humbrol equivalents. If I don't like the result I should have enough Mr Hobby left for a top coat. Normally I would use my bus pass to go for free down to Antics in Cardiff and get some more, but with the local lockdown in force I can't!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited September 24, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

The Humbrol paints being matt look a bit different to the glossy Mr Hobby versions, but once varnished they will be fairly close so I will stick with them.

Still a bit of tidying up to do as some of the demarcations are not quite straight, but getting there.

 

Pete

[Johnson]

Good bit of history there Pete, I now know 100% more about Do-17s than I did 10 minutes ago! Looking pretty good for an old FROG, and rapid progress too, I wish I could (make some progress). I think it's having a new dog, now 5 months old and quite exhausting.

Best wishes,

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Johnson said:

I think it's having a new dog, now 5 months old and quite exhausting.

Isn't it, mine just turned five months on Thursday. 

[PeterB]

Hi Guys,

 

Know what you mean. Cats can be bad enough, particularly when you have "twins", but dogs are in a whole different league when it comes to the amount of time and attention they need. Persevere - it will be worth it as you no doubt know from previous experience. My family always had dogs, and that of my wife had cats so after we married we compromised - cats and kids! Glad you got another one Dennis.

 

Here is another bit of useless info for you Charlie - I have mentioned BMW and Bramo Fafnir (a dragon in Norse Mythology) engines, but was unsure who manufactured the Bramo ones so I did a bit of research.  The Siemens company best known for electrical equipment got into aircraft manufacturing duing WWI as Siemens-Shuckert and into engines as Siemens-Halske, hence the promising but flawed SS D.III fighter with a powerful but temperamental SH rotary that revolved in the opposite direction to the crankshaft to try and reduce torque. After the war the aero engine division was re-named Brandenburgische Motorenwerke - Bramo for short, and they produced the Bramo 322, which was developed into the Bramo 323 Fafnir Single row 9 cylinder radial engine with fuel injection and supercharging. BMW took Bramo over in 1939 to form BMW Flugmotorbau so the Bramo engines in the Do-17Z could also be said to be a BMW product! A combination of the Bramo 323 and other BMW projects resulted in the more powerful BMW 801 series of 14 cylinder two row engines which were used in many versions of the Ju 88, Fw 190 and Do 217 to name but a few. As Michael Caine might have said (allegedly) - "Not a lot of people know that"!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited September 25, 2020 by PeterB

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

55 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Glad you got another one Dennis.

Thanks

[Greg Law]

Sorry Pete, you are going too fast with this one. You are right to go RLM02. My Do215 is RLM02 as well. 

Looking good so far. 

You are not the only one effected by this Covic19. I can't get my favourite thinner at the moment and I'm starting 

to runout with all these models I'm doing. Luckily I stashed a large paint supply for the German planes. 

[PeterB]

Hi Greg,

 

Too fast? It is an old Frog kit with 63 parts which probably took me less than 3 days last time round, even with enamel paint!😁

 Anyway it will slow down some from now on as I will have to touch up the paintwork, paint the canopy etc frames, gloss and varnish it. before putting my home made decs on - another 5 days at least I would think! I don't think engines were ever one of Frog's strongest points, but at least it has 8 sorry make that 9 cylinders in a single row. 

 

I mentioned the armament earlier and Frog provide a couple of extra MG 15 which were mounted in the sides of the rear canopy, giving the radio operator/gunner 3 to handle, but not all at once of course. This seems to have been pretty much the standard field fitted defensive armament during the Battle of Britain, but one book mentions 8 machine guns with an extra crew member so it would have been rather cramped! I would guess that they might have added twin MG81Z somewhere but could be wrong.

 

As to performance, well as ever that is hard to compare as it depends both on altitude and bomb/fuel load. From Green's book, when fully loaded the Z-2 could just about manage 250 mph, which was around 50mph faster than the He-111 also fully loaded, but the Ju-88 A-1 was about 30mph faster. Do-17 crews apparently found their best bet was to climb hard, then when approaching the target to go into a shallow dive when they could get up above 300mph. However, both the other 2 bombers could carry a lot more bombs considerably further, so production of the Do-17 was phased out in mid 1940 in favour of the bigger and faster Do 217. They continued in service in reducing numbers for a couple more years. Green says that they were well liked by their crews and probably the most reliable of the 3 main bomber types used during the Battle of Britain.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited September 27, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Well, that was a bit of a drag but the touching up is done.

I have given it a coat of gloss and you can see how the Humbrol RLM 70/71 compares with the Mr Hobby version under artificial light - not quite the same but close enough for me. Time to start putting some decals on.

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Managed to get most of the decs on. I am doing my usual trick for the white letters - "paint them on a green background, print on white dec paper, then touch up carefully with the base colour on the kit.

I will have to straighten out the blue where the green from the A behind the fuselage cross overlaps slightly.and blend the "A"'s in a little on the wings. Some pics of Do-17Z show white lines around the joint between the wing centre section and the fuselage, and also a couple of short ones "fore and aft" inboard of the upper wing crosses so I will probably add those as well.

 

I have modelled this on Werknummer 1160 which was built under license by Henschel and was a machine of III/KG 3, which was formed from KG 153 and so carried their playing card badges – Ace of Clubs for this machine from Staffel 7, Spades for Staffel 8 and Hearts for Staffel 9 I think. On August 28th 1940 it was one of the machines of KG 3 based at St. Trond that, together with other Do-17Z's from KG 2 took off to attack the RAF stations at Debden and Hornchurch. Reports say that it became separated from the escort and the rest of the formation in cloud.

 

The RAF scrambled fighters to intercept including Defiants from 264 Squadron and one of them shot this bomber down – not sure which as 3 Defiants were lost later in a clash with the Bf 109 escort and it seems to have probably been one of them that did the deed! The Dornier had one engine out and the other damaged and was put down on the Goodwin Sands with the wounded pilot Feldwebel Willi Effmert and one other crew member surviving to become POW's. In 2008 it was found and a couple of years later it was recovered and is under preservation/restoration by the Battle of Britain Museum at Cosford.

 

I will add the badges once the glazing is on, given how good Clearfix is at dissolving decs. Better get the cockpit frames and guns painted I guess.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

 

[Johnson]

Transfers look very nice Pete. Good luck with the glazing!

 

Nice to have more history too.

 

Cheers,

[PeterB]

Incidentally, just looked at my original Frog kit and it has the markings 5K+DH so it too is a plane from KG.3, but aircraft D of the 1st Staffel I Gruppe. Thought 5K rang a bell.

 

Pete

[dogsbody]

45 minutes ago, PeterB said:

Incidentally, just looked at my original Frog kit and it has the markings 5K+DH so it too is a plane from KG.3, but aircraft D of the 1st Staffel I Gruppe. Thought 5K rang a bell.

 

Pete

 

This set:

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[PeterB]

Thanks Chris,

 

You have just reminded me I have several of those decal sheets in my stash - might see what condition they are in and use the white stripes from there rather than stock stripes.

 

Pete

Edited September 29, 2020 by PeterB

[Johnson]

8 hours ago, PeterB said:

Incidentally, just looked at my original Frog kit and it has the markings 5K+DH so it too is a plane from KG.3, but aircraft D of the 1st Staffel I Gruppe. Thought 5K rang a bell.

 

Pete

They will make a nice pair on the shelf - maybe a small diorama?

[Greg Law]

Your decal method looks, however it wouldn't work for me because I airbrush and it is impossible to match the colour when you brush paint the touch up area.

[PeterB]

Yes, I can see the problem Greg.

 

Anyway, it worked fine for me and everything is now on'

Just needs a finishing spray of varnish. Came out quite well, but I imagine it is not very accurate. For starters most pics and drawings show a rectangular window in the side of the fuselage under the Port wing as on the earlier versions such as the E, but Frog did not include it, and some of the frames on the glazing may not be correct either, but then sources do not always agree and at least one does not show the fuselage window - perhaps not all had it?

 

Unfortunately the weather here has been poor and is likely to stay that way for a while, but once I can get some decent pics in natural light I will post them, perhaps including a comparison shot with the Ju 88A-1 and the Do 217E-5 I rebuilt a couple of months ago.

 

I have enjoyed this GB but I am finished now - the Italeri He 111H-6 would need quite a bit of work including new props I believe to turn it into something that actually flew during the Battle of Britain - I am still researching that but I can't see it getting modified.

 

Thanks to the originators and managers of this GB for a lot of fun.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Stew Dapple]

Nice job Pete, look forward to the pictures, it's been good to have you along for the ride  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew